Checking to see if a car is clocked
Discussion
So, bit of a long story but my father is going to view a car on Friday (Ford Edge), its for sale with a reputable dealer who sell anything from cars of this budget up to Bentleys etc.
The car seems fine, HPI clear, Car Vertical VIN check appears fine, the garage are helpful and have MOTd it today and put new pads on (failed first time on these).
His concern is the service book, the last two serviced were stamped by an 'invisible company' (e.g JM Mechanics), there is a number and email on the stamp. The email is not replied to and mobile number rings off, there is no record of the company anywhere on google, FB, Yell etc so we have no way of verifying the history of the car and it looks a bit shady.
He purchased a car years ago which ended up being clocked and got his money back by going back to the guys house (long but funny story!), his concern is the shady history of this car since its last owner. He is thinking of getting a PPI inspection when he is there but can you plug the car in to a diagnostics and actually find the true mileage somehow?
One concern too is the car seems to have done approx 14-15k miles per annum since new however since PX'd in Feb 2022 (last serviced then to) it was SORN in May and the mileage has gone up 11k from mid Jan (original 2022 MOT) until now but realistically May unless its been driven with no tax which seems unlikely as its been sat in a dealer showroom.
Its all a little bit weird and he would like to at least verify the mileage somehow.
Any tips appreciated.
The car seems fine, HPI clear, Car Vertical VIN check appears fine, the garage are helpful and have MOTd it today and put new pads on (failed first time on these).
His concern is the service book, the last two serviced were stamped by an 'invisible company' (e.g JM Mechanics), there is a number and email on the stamp. The email is not replied to and mobile number rings off, there is no record of the company anywhere on google, FB, Yell etc so we have no way of verifying the history of the car and it looks a bit shady.
He purchased a car years ago which ended up being clocked and got his money back by going back to the guys house (long but funny story!), his concern is the shady history of this car since its last owner. He is thinking of getting a PPI inspection when he is there but can you plug the car in to a diagnostics and actually find the true mileage somehow?
One concern too is the car seems to have done approx 14-15k miles per annum since new however since PX'd in Feb 2022 (last serviced then to) it was SORN in May and the mileage has gone up 11k from mid Jan (original 2022 MOT) until now but realistically May unless its been driven with no tax which seems unlikely as its been sat in a dealer showroom.
Its all a little bit weird and he would like to at least verify the mileage somehow.
Any tips appreciated.
Is it cheap or rare enough to even be bothering with ?
Where was the January MOT done? I am assuming it wasn't the elusive JM Mechanics as they'd be easier to find.
Suggests to me the January MOT mileage is incorrect and should have been higher (to account for some of the 11k), maybe a genuine mistake, maybe not. Either way, no-one noticed thus far.
For what I'd perceive as above average mileage for the car for a long period, feels unlikely its been clocked but there could be discrpancies which calls in to question the service schedule. If we're suggesting it may have been clocked this year, you'd remove that 11k surely ?
Either way, find another one, sounds more hassle than its worth.
Where was the January MOT done? I am assuming it wasn't the elusive JM Mechanics as they'd be easier to find.
Suggests to me the January MOT mileage is incorrect and should have been higher (to account for some of the 11k), maybe a genuine mistake, maybe not. Either way, no-one noticed thus far.
For what I'd perceive as above average mileage for the car for a long period, feels unlikely its been clocked but there could be discrpancies which calls in to question the service schedule. If we're suggesting it may have been clocked this year, you'd remove that 11k surely ?
Either way, find another one, sounds more hassle than its worth.
All the control modules in the car hold the mileage independent of the ecu and mileage display unit. You can check these with the majority of code readers. If the displayed mileage is widely different from the control modules mileage then it has been clocked or had a new instrument cluster.
How old is the car?
If it doesn't need a blocker then you'd be hard pushed to detect.
Always go on the condition
You did right by calling the garages. When car hunting for the OH last time found what appeared to be a nice one, fully stamped book but no invoices. Three main dealer stamps, quick call and they're genuine. Three indi stamps, quick call, but no record of car. They ask for pictures and 5 mins later they confirm that whilst it appears to be their stamp it certainly isn't.
If in doubt just walk
If it doesn't need a blocker then you'd be hard pushed to detect.
Always go on the condition
You did right by calling the garages. When car hunting for the OH last time found what appeared to be a nice one, fully stamped book but no invoices. Three main dealer stamps, quick call and they're genuine. Three indi stamps, quick call, but no record of car. They ask for pictures and 5 mins later they confirm that whilst it appears to be their stamp it certainly isn't.
If in doubt just walk
The car is an okay deal, its not cheap/too cheap but it has the kit on it my father was looking for.
Its been up for a few weeks and the garage has just reduced it.
Looking on their page there is some very nice cars for sale/sold, new Bentley, i8 roadster, 911's, Ferrari. They aren't a huge trader but hold some nice stock. Would they really risk their reputation on a dodgy Ford, or perhaps they dont know. Here is a run down on my concerns:
MOT:
Jan 2022 - Mileage 56900
Feb 2022 - Mileage 53500, this is by the 'garage' and handwritten, I am thinking the 3 has been overlooked and possibly 58500, would you clock a car for 4k miles and then make it obvious?
August 2022 - Now on 66k
It was put on original reg Feb so I presume prepared for sale then
May - car was SORN/no tax, possibly used by a trader in the meantime?
Maybe I am wrong but in my opinion it looks odd.
The garage have said if they cant get a reply from the previous garage then will do a full major service including gearbox etc and offer it at half trade price, they MOTd it yesterday and put new pads on. They have sent anything we have asked for so they do seem genuine guys.
My worry is the Feb service, perhaps it is just human error when writing the mileage. Second worry is I can not get in touch with the previous mechanic, absolutely nothing at all about them online, it could have just been a stamp from eBay!
Maybe they have used a local home based mechanic or a friend of a friend but on a car of that value it seems daft.
If my father does proceed with the sale I have told him to arrange a PPI and plug in before buying or worst case when he gets home book it in to Ford. If there is an issue he is within his rights to return it.
Its been up for a few weeks and the garage has just reduced it.
Looking on their page there is some very nice cars for sale/sold, new Bentley, i8 roadster, 911's, Ferrari. They aren't a huge trader but hold some nice stock. Would they really risk their reputation on a dodgy Ford, or perhaps they dont know. Here is a run down on my concerns:
MOT:
Jan 2022 - Mileage 56900
Feb 2022 - Mileage 53500, this is by the 'garage' and handwritten, I am thinking the 3 has been overlooked and possibly 58500, would you clock a car for 4k miles and then make it obvious?
August 2022 - Now on 66k
It was put on original reg Feb so I presume prepared for sale then
May - car was SORN/no tax, possibly used by a trader in the meantime?
Maybe I am wrong but in my opinion it looks odd.
The garage have said if they cant get a reply from the previous garage then will do a full major service including gearbox etc and offer it at half trade price, they MOTd it yesterday and put new pads on. They have sent anything we have asked for so they do seem genuine guys.
My worry is the Feb service, perhaps it is just human error when writing the mileage. Second worry is I can not get in touch with the previous mechanic, absolutely nothing at all about them online, it could have just been a stamp from eBay!
Maybe they have used a local home based mechanic or a friend of a friend but on a car of that value it seems daft.
If my father does proceed with the sale I have told him to arrange a PPI and plug in before buying or worst case when he gets home book it in to Ford. If there is an issue he is within his rights to return it.
Sir Bagalot said:
How old is the car?
If it doesn't need a blocker then you'd be hard pushed to detect.
Always go on the condition
You did right by calling the garages. When car hunting for the OH last time found what appeared to be a nice one, fully stamped book but no invoices. Three main dealer stamps, quick call and they're genuine. Three indi stamps, quick call, but no record of car. They ask for pictures and 5 mins later they confirm that whilst it appears to be their stamp it certainly isn't.
If in doubt just walk
66 reg car with 66k mileage.If it doesn't need a blocker then you'd be hard pushed to detect.
Always go on the condition
You did right by calling the garages. When car hunting for the OH last time found what appeared to be a nice one, fully stamped book but no invoices. Three main dealer stamps, quick call and they're genuine. Three indi stamps, quick call, but no record of car. They ask for pictures and 5 mins later they confirm that whilst it appears to be their stamp it certainly isn't.
If in doubt just walk
The car looks very clean, I have told my father to get underneath and look for anything obvious paint wise such as overspray, dodgy panel gaps, clips looking like they have been pushed out. The sales guy said there is barely a stone chip on the car, they have done a full prep/detail prior to sale but on a car with 66k there should be stone chips as expected. If its done 166k and been pitted then perhaps its been painted for re-sale.
JCKST1 said:
His concern is the service book, the last two serviced were stamped by an 'invisible company' (e.g JM Mechanics), there is a number and email on the stamp. The email is not replied to and mobile number rings off, there is no record of the company anywhere on google, FB, Yell etc so we have no way of verifying the history of the car and it looks a bit shady.
Any tips appreciated.
If it looks shady then most decent dealers wouldn't buy it.Any tips appreciated.
I wouldn't expect it to be clocked at that age and mileage, it's more likely to be forged service history - either way I wouldn't touch it.
I bought a nice little Megane as a runabout once on 59k and 10 years old. I phoned up and asked them if the cam belt had been done (stupid) - they said yes and I bought it. Turns out they just ticked a box on the service history in a matching pen, cam belt snapped at 61k.
I insist on receipts for every service now or I walk (obviously check Main Dealers first).
In fact that could be an option on this car, phone up ford - most cars are serviced at main dealers in the first 3 years. Might find the mileage it was serviced at doesn't tally or it has a full ford history and the lazy garage thought it was easier to forge a new one than get the original.
I bought a nice little Megane as a runabout once on 59k and 10 years old. I phoned up and asked them if the cam belt had been done (stupid) - they said yes and I bought it. Turns out they just ticked a box on the service history in a matching pen, cam belt snapped at 61k.
I insist on receipts for every service now or I walk (obviously check Main Dealers first).
In fact that could be an option on this car, phone up ford - most cars are serviced at main dealers in the first 3 years. Might find the mileage it was serviced at doesn't tally or it has a full ford history and the lazy garage thought it was easier to forge a new one than get the original.
I had a chat with Bristol street motors who were able to find data going back to 2019, a few minor recalls and servicing but the mileage, dates etc correspond to the service book.
It seems the car was then sold to a woman owner in 2019, a quick google search shows she is based near where the car was originally sold and seems to own some kind of local/small building firm/property developing so it seems unlikely she will be going mega miles.
The service in 2020 was at a garage who have a good rep online and seem fine, its the 2020-2022 which dont add up. I can only presume shes took it to a local or mobile trader whos just doing minor servicing work through his name/sole trader.
MOT's correspond well each year so unless they were clocking it annually it does seem to follow a pattern since new.
I have left it in the hands of my father, I live abroad so can't do much more. I did tell him if he is set on the deal to get a PPI/Code reader check at the premises or when he gets back home with it.
It seems the car was then sold to a woman owner in 2019, a quick google search shows she is based near where the car was originally sold and seems to own some kind of local/small building firm/property developing so it seems unlikely she will be going mega miles.
The service in 2020 was at a garage who have a good rep online and seem fine, its the 2020-2022 which dont add up. I can only presume shes took it to a local or mobile trader whos just doing minor servicing work through his name/sole trader.
MOT's correspond well each year so unless they were clocking it annually it does seem to follow a pattern since new.
I have left it in the hands of my father, I live abroad so can't do much more. I did tell him if he is set on the deal to get a PPI/Code reader check at the premises or when he gets back home with it.
stevensdrs said:
All the control modules in the car hold the mileage independent of the ecu and mileage display unit. You can check these with the majority of code readers. If the displayed mileage is widely different from the control modules mileage then it has been clocked or had a new instrument cluster.
My ex wife had an old 3 Series that was nothing but trouble, so I offered to check the engine codes with my laptop and INPA. It soon became apparent why it felt like such a baggy pile of crap as it had been clocked by 70K miles.An N42 with 170K miles and not 100K miles as it said on the dash..... It sounded as bad as you would imagine.
JCKST1 said:
I had a chat with Bristol street motors who were able to find data going back to 2019, a few minor recalls and servicing but the mileage, dates etc correspond to the service book.
It seems the car was then sold to a woman owner in 2019, a quick google search shows she is based near where the car was originally sold and seems to own some kind of local/small building firm/property developing so it seems unlikely she will be going mega miles.
The service in 2020 was at a garage who have a good rep online and seem fine, its the 2020-2022 which dont add up. I can only presume shes took it to a local or mobile trader whos just doing minor servicing work through his name/sole trader.
MOT's correspond well each year so unless they were clocking it annually it does seem to follow a pattern since new.
I have left it in the hands of my father, I live abroad so can't do much more. I did tell him if he is set on the deal to get a PPI/Code reader check at the premises or when he gets back home with it.
How did you get all the previous owner info?It seems the car was then sold to a woman owner in 2019, a quick google search shows she is based near where the car was originally sold and seems to own some kind of local/small building firm/property developing so it seems unlikely she will be going mega miles.
The service in 2020 was at a garage who have a good rep online and seem fine, its the 2020-2022 which dont add up. I can only presume shes took it to a local or mobile trader whos just doing minor servicing work through his name/sole trader.
MOT's correspond well each year so unless they were clocking it annually it does seem to follow a pattern since new.
I have left it in the hands of my father, I live abroad so can't do much more. I did tell him if he is set on the deal to get a PPI/Code reader check at the premises or when he gets back home with it.
JCKST1 said:
GranpaB said:
How did you get all the previous owner info?
The dealer sent us a copy of the paperwork which showed the logbook.We simply just searched her name and the town registered and companies house popped up with the corresponding address.
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