Fiat/Alfa 0.9 TwinAir engines.
Discussion
Hi All,
Currently looking at downsizing, and I've been looking at both Panda 4x4s and Alfa Mitos with the 0.9 TwinAir engine, in the case of the Mito turbocharged to 105ps.
The cars themselves are quite old platforms, so I've not really got any concerns there, although if there is anything outside of the engine that I really need to look out for then please let me know.
I was mainly wondering if anyone has any direct experience with the TwinAir engines with regard to durability/reliability, and things that I should look out for. Looking at cars between around 2013 to 2017.
Thanks in advance!
Currently looking at downsizing, and I've been looking at both Panda 4x4s and Alfa Mitos with the 0.9 TwinAir engine, in the case of the Mito turbocharged to 105ps.
The cars themselves are quite old platforms, so I've not really got any concerns there, although if there is anything outside of the engine that I really need to look out for then please let me know.
I was mainly wondering if anyone has any direct experience with the TwinAir engines with regard to durability/reliability, and things that I should look out for. Looking at cars between around 2013 to 2017.
Thanks in advance!
My sister bought a Twin-Air Fiat 500 last year with the 85bhp version of the engine and she loves it.
I had a quick drive and thought it was great too, but it really needs to be revved to get moving as the bottom end is woeful. Which may be why they aren't very economical, but revving the nuts off a small Fiat is how they have always been at their best.
I read in a few places that the 4 cylinder ones tend to be more reliable, but she had to have a Twin-Air as it sounded like a proper 500!
I had a quick drive and thought it was great too, but it really needs to be revved to get moving as the bottom end is woeful. Which may be why they aren't very economical, but revving the nuts off a small Fiat is how they have always been at their best.
I read in a few places that the 4 cylinder ones tend to be more reliable, but she had to have a Twin-Air as it sounded like a proper 500!
The engines are proving to be very reliable but there are a few things to note:
They are not economical, especially the earlier ones. I have a 2013 Panda 4x4 and it will average 35-36 mpg driven normally, with a decent mix of driving. On a long drive the mpg does improve a lot, I’ve had 47mpg on a cross country drive, mostly motorway at the speed limit.
They need to use the correct oil due to the twin air timing valve and the sensitivity of it and how important it is to the engine. It’s not expensive oil. They also changed the oil type between Euro 5 and Euro 6 from a 5w40 to a 5w30.
The clutches on the twin air engines can be a bit biscuit. Seems quite random and some don’t last long at all. Others can be absolutely fine.
They have character, but are quite rough and unrefined, with a lot of vibration particularly around peak torque around 2000 rpm. This can shake the car and makes you not want to be in the most efficient gear. May explain the clutch issues too 🤔 They don’t like to rev to the red line either, best work is done before 5500 rpm in the twin air.
Stop start very rarely works, only if the battery is brand new.
The Eco button restricts boost to about 4 psi from the normal level of around 16 psi. It doesn’t seem to make much, if any difference to economy!
They are not economical, especially the earlier ones. I have a 2013 Panda 4x4 and it will average 35-36 mpg driven normally, with a decent mix of driving. On a long drive the mpg does improve a lot, I’ve had 47mpg on a cross country drive, mostly motorway at the speed limit.
They need to use the correct oil due to the twin air timing valve and the sensitivity of it and how important it is to the engine. It’s not expensive oil. They also changed the oil type between Euro 5 and Euro 6 from a 5w40 to a 5w30.
The clutches on the twin air engines can be a bit biscuit. Seems quite random and some don’t last long at all. Others can be absolutely fine.
They have character, but are quite rough and unrefined, with a lot of vibration particularly around peak torque around 2000 rpm. This can shake the car and makes you not want to be in the most efficient gear. May explain the clutch issues too 🤔 They don’t like to rev to the red line either, best work is done before 5500 rpm in the twin air.
Stop start very rarely works, only if the battery is brand new.
The Eco button restricts boost to about 4 psi from the normal level of around 16 psi. It doesn’t seem to make much, if any difference to economy!
Our Fiat 500 Twinair is on over 88,000 now. So far the only issue related to the engine was a hole in a boost pipe - on acceleration the pipe would expand and it would lose boost. Rather concerning at the time, but only a £80 fix at our local indie. Other than that it's had a new clutch, instrument binnacle and an airbag module. Nothing have cost over £600 yet, so I think we've done alright.
Gratuitous milage pic I got at the weekend
Gratuitous milage pic I got at the weekend
Edited by Benga101 on Tuesday 6th September 22:32
I picked up a 2012 135bhp Mito with the 4 cyl multi-air turbo last year, 49k miles, 2 lady owners, Copart write off for hail damage bargain. Bought it because I have a daughter who will learn to drive soon
Like
Styling really grew on me fast, both inside and out
Engine is really good performance wise
Handling is ok, overall the car is fun to drive
Dislike
Has three driving modes, Dynamic, Normal, All weather. Can't comment on all weather by Normal is terrible - the throttle response is really slow. I use Dynamic all the time but unless you get a late one (not sure the cutoff) you have to move it out of Normal every time. Make sure you test it in Dynamic because I've seen posts where people didn't and got a terrible impression of them
Leccy power steering is lacking in feel, even in dynamic. Common to many cars, but this is worse than some others
Fuel consumption was disappointing - seems quite good around town, probably >40mpg, but I'm getting about 36mpg on long journeys which is what I mainly use it for. Only has a 5 speed box and revs are fairly high at motorway speeds
Usual Alfa driving position takes a bit of getting used to
Some annoying feature points such as only two intermittent settings on wipers that are both almost the same and too frequent
Watch for:
QV/Cloverleaf version has the dreaded M32 6 speed box which fails one of the bearings, can be repaired and upgraded for about £300 by the right specialists. I also have a Zafira with that box, had to have a rebuild at just over 60k, I didn't know then what I know now so by the time my local indy had removed gearbox and sent for a complete recon, I was about £1k lighter
Power steering fault is common, to do with a torque sensor. Very expensive to replace as you have to get the whole column, but they can be reconned for about £250. Mine threw this fault a few times in the beginning but sorted itself out after a while. It seems to be common if the battery is low, in fact the cars seem to throw various wobblies that can often be solved with a new battery (although I haven't had to change it)
Stop start doesn't usually work, nobody knows why. Empirically I've found it only ever works if you have had the battery disconnected, for a few trips, and then doesn't. It's an annoying feature anyway, I've had it stop when I didn't want it to stop, so I'm happy that it never works.
Engine has a separate multi-air micro filter that needs to be cleaned when servicing. There are some horror stories about failure of the multi-air system but it appear that this may have been a manufacturing defect on early cars when new, so whilst the internet is full of it, I don't see any up to date forum posts about multi-air failure
Similarly, it is said to be very important to use a specific grade of oil
Front suspension top mounts wear, easy fix
Wiring to the boot fails where it flexes, easy fix
Suspension top mounts wear
Regarding the twin-air, I also was interested in a Fiat 500 with that engine, again for the daughters. Sounds like they are a fun drive but busy on the motorway and if used in any kind of anger, won't be much more economical than the bigger engine because you'll be working it hard. My search always seems to start with looking for a Fiat 500 but so far I ended up with an R52 Mini the first time and a Mito the second time and not at all unhappy about that.
Hope it helps!
Like
Styling really grew on me fast, both inside and out
Engine is really good performance wise
Handling is ok, overall the car is fun to drive
Dislike
Has three driving modes, Dynamic, Normal, All weather. Can't comment on all weather by Normal is terrible - the throttle response is really slow. I use Dynamic all the time but unless you get a late one (not sure the cutoff) you have to move it out of Normal every time. Make sure you test it in Dynamic because I've seen posts where people didn't and got a terrible impression of them
Leccy power steering is lacking in feel, even in dynamic. Common to many cars, but this is worse than some others
Fuel consumption was disappointing - seems quite good around town, probably >40mpg, but I'm getting about 36mpg on long journeys which is what I mainly use it for. Only has a 5 speed box and revs are fairly high at motorway speeds
Usual Alfa driving position takes a bit of getting used to
Some annoying feature points such as only two intermittent settings on wipers that are both almost the same and too frequent
Watch for:
QV/Cloverleaf version has the dreaded M32 6 speed box which fails one of the bearings, can be repaired and upgraded for about £300 by the right specialists. I also have a Zafira with that box, had to have a rebuild at just over 60k, I didn't know then what I know now so by the time my local indy had removed gearbox and sent for a complete recon, I was about £1k lighter
Power steering fault is common, to do with a torque sensor. Very expensive to replace as you have to get the whole column, but they can be reconned for about £250. Mine threw this fault a few times in the beginning but sorted itself out after a while. It seems to be common if the battery is low, in fact the cars seem to throw various wobblies that can often be solved with a new battery (although I haven't had to change it)
Stop start doesn't usually work, nobody knows why. Empirically I've found it only ever works if you have had the battery disconnected, for a few trips, and then doesn't. It's an annoying feature anyway, I've had it stop when I didn't want it to stop, so I'm happy that it never works.
Engine has a separate multi-air micro filter that needs to be cleaned when servicing. There are some horror stories about failure of the multi-air system but it appear that this may have been a manufacturing defect on early cars when new, so whilst the internet is full of it, I don't see any up to date forum posts about multi-air failure
Similarly, it is said to be very important to use a specific grade of oil
Front suspension top mounts wear, easy fix
Wiring to the boot fails where it flexes, easy fix
Suspension top mounts wear
Regarding the twin-air, I also was interested in a Fiat 500 with that engine, again for the daughters. Sounds like they are a fun drive but busy on the motorway and if used in any kind of anger, won't be much more economical than the bigger engine because you'll be working it hard. My search always seems to start with looking for a Fiat 500 but so far I ended up with an R52 Mini the first time and a Mito the second time and not at all unhappy about that.
Hope it helps!
I had a Panda 4x4 with the twin-air engine for a while and loved it - Potentially the car I most regret getting rid of and I definitely see myself getting another one in the future.
One aspect of the engine that took a bit of getting used to was the fact that it’s easy to over-rev initially because you only get two “bangs” per revolution rather than four… (I instinctively change gear based on the sound/vibration, rather than focusing on the rev counter)
One aspect of the engine that took a bit of getting used to was the fact that it’s easy to over-rev initially because you only get two “bangs” per revolution rather than four… (I instinctively change gear based on the sound/vibration, rather than focusing on the rev counter)
Thanks for the responses chaps. Particularly fightingtorque regarding the 4cyl Mitos aswell as they are on the shortlist.
Started digging into owner forums and read a variety of horror stories, but I have to find a balance of knowing they are mostly going to be in the minority.
My mum had an early 500 1.2 and that was a solid car, ironically also needed an instrument cluster, and the usual broken door handles
Mitos, 500s and panda 4x4 are still on the shortlist along with some other stuff. Unfortunately I can't really do a lot at the moment until my broken PCP car is fixed, and its been with the dealer for 2 weeks already :/ Just doing plenty of research and seeing what sort of cars are available.
Thanks all
Started digging into owner forums and read a variety of horror stories, but I have to find a balance of knowing they are mostly going to be in the minority.
My mum had an early 500 1.2 and that was a solid car, ironically also needed an instrument cluster, and the usual broken door handles
Mitos, 500s and panda 4x4 are still on the shortlist along with some other stuff. Unfortunately I can't really do a lot at the moment until my broken PCP car is fixed, and its been with the dealer for 2 weeks already :/ Just doing plenty of research and seeing what sort of cars are available.
Thanks all
WelshPetrolhead said:
Thanks chaps.
I am considering the older 1.4 Turbo Mitos as well.
I can very much recommend one of these, loved my MiTo. I'd still have it if a speeding uninsured van driver, carrying a load of pies and keys, hadn't smashed into me. Misses is potentially looking for a little runabout and another MiTo is on the list.I am considering the older 1.4 Turbo Mitos as well.
WelshPetrolhead said:
Thanks again for the help chaps.
Now I have sorted my PCP car, I am going to test drive an Etna Black 18 plate Mito TwinAir tomorrow evening!
Let us know what you think of it, great colour too, has a red metal flake in the blackNow I have sorted my PCP car, I am going to test drive an Etna Black 18 plate Mito TwinAir tomorrow evening!
Edited by WelshPetrolhead on Monday 10th October 17:10
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