Rejecting a car bought from a trader
Discussion
Hi. My daughter bought a 2012 Kia Sportage with 68k 1 previous owner FSH. After 9 weeks the diff exploded on the M225 at 60mph. She's a mum and nearly always has the kids in the car so never abuses it. 3 month warranty still valid so returned it to the trader. He is struggling two weeks later to get a part. £2600 new from dealer but he's after a used one. In house warranty. He ordered two but they both failed the suppliers test. In other words, they were duds. My problem is, I'm concerned fitting a used one will be problematic (2 duds already) so we insisted he gets a new one from Kia which he won't. So, are we justified /entitled in rejecting the car for a full refund ?
Thank-you
Thank-you
Rs2oo said:
So, are we justified /entitled in rejecting the car for a full refund ?
Thank-you
Probably not in this case OP. The fault occurred after the 30 day period in which consumers have an automatic right to reject if faults occur. In this case the dealer is obliged to repair the car though, and if he fails to do that you are then entitled to a refund.Thank-you
A recon part seems reasonable in this case IMV as it's a 10yo car.
Rs2oo said:
Hi. My daughter bought a 2012 Kia Sportage with 68k 1 previous owner FSH. After 9 weeks the diff exploded on the M225 at 60mph. She's a mum and nearly always has the kids in the car so never abuses it. 3 month warranty still valid so returned it to the trader. He is struggling two weeks later to get a part. £2600 new from dealer but he's after a used one. In house warranty. He ordered two but they both failed the suppliers test. In other words, they were duds. My problem is, I'm concerned fitting a used one will be problematic (2 duds already) so we insisted he gets a new one from Kia which he won't. So, are we justified /entitled in rejecting the car for a full refund ?
Thank-you
You could offer to pay the difference between a used one and the new one? Thank-you
Most (every) warranty has a betterment clause.
IE, you bought a car with a 10yr old diff, you’re entitled to a replacement 10yr old diff, anything “better” has to be paid for by someone other than the warranty.
^ in a nutshell, etc….
I wouldn’t accept a used warranty replacement on any of my cars regardless of price or age.
This is still an £8.5K car.
Also it’s now over 2 weeks and 2 failed parts which is getting silly. Tough luck the dealer has to cough up he can’t find a used part.
I’d firmly be rejecting the car then he can take as long as he wants to find a part at the right price for him before he resells it. Your paying for a car you can’t use because he is failing to repair it.
This is still an £8.5K car.
Also it’s now over 2 weeks and 2 failed parts which is getting silly. Tough luck the dealer has to cough up he can’t find a used part.
I’d firmly be rejecting the car then he can take as long as he wants to find a part at the right price for him before he resells it. Your paying for a car you can’t use because he is failing to repair it.
To answer your question, after 30 days and within 6 months, the dealer has one chance to repair the fault. After that you're legally entitled to reject it and get a full refund (less mileage).
Whether you choose to do that though, or accept a recon part, is up to you. Given the age of the car I'd be inclined to accept a used/recon part, but not if it was taking too long to supply.
Whether you choose to do that though, or accept a recon part, is up to you. Given the age of the car I'd be inclined to accept a used/recon part, but not if it was taking too long to supply.
Copy/Pasted...but in short as someone said above. I think there is a grey area here in that they technically haven't attempted to repair it yet, just source the part. So they still have the right to repair it I presume before you can reject the car. The real issue is time to repair, and what is deemed reasonable.
2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
coldel said:
Copy/Pasted...but in short as someone said above. I think there is a grey area here in that they technically haven't attempted to repair it yet, just source the part. So they still have the right to repair it I presume before you can reject the car. The real issue is time to repair, and what is deemed reasonable.
2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
Blimey2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
How do all the traders who dealer in high miler snotter cars cope?
All older cars will have some sort of fault at the time of purchase?
Well it does depend on the failure. A car with a fault does not mean its a faulty car. Older cars will have wear and tear which doesn't fall into the three categories of Sufficient Quality, Fit for Purpose and As Described.
Usually its best to try and resolve the problem, if you go nuclear and ask for a refund in most cases the dealer will fight it and ask you to prove it failed one of the tests, usually by you having to pay for an independent inspection or the like.
Usually its best to try and resolve the problem, if you go nuclear and ask for a refund in most cases the dealer will fight it and ask you to prove it failed one of the tests, usually by you having to pay for an independent inspection or the like.
lord trumpton said:
Blimey
How do all the traders who dealer in high miler snotter cars cope?
All older cars will have some sort of fault at the time of purchase?
Presumably by doing a reasonable amount of due diligence prior to purchase or sale, and either fixing or declaring any faults found.How do all the traders who dealer in high miler snotter cars cope?
All older cars will have some sort of fault at the time of purchase?
Obviously with older cars there's some risk which, in the case of a dealer sale, rests with the dealer. Which is partly why they buy at trade and sell at retail. If the risk sat with buyer then people would just save money and buy private.
That said, I don't think even the law demands perfection on an older car.
lord trumpton said:
Blimey
How do all the traders who dealer in high miler snotter cars cope?
All older cars will have some sort of fault at the time of purchase?
If you've tried to buy a cheap car recently (I looked for a £1k car for my daughter) most are sold by non uk nationals from car parks / farms - you'll be lucky to get a genuine name / address and absolutely no chance of any redress should something go wrongHow do all the traders who dealer in high miler snotter cars cope?
All older cars will have some sort of fault at the time of purchase?
That's what happens when the laws are unworkable
KTMsm said:
If you've tried to buy a cheap car recently (I looked for a £1k car for my daughter) most are sold by non uk nationals from car parks / farms - you'll be lucky to get a genuine name / address and absolutely no chance of any redress should something go wrong
That's what happens when the laws are unworkable
To be fair, prior to CRA2015 there was nothing specific to the uniqueness of dealing with car purchases. I have seen many people use the CRA2015 many times to help resolve conflict with dealers. That's what happens when the laws are unworkable
The legislation is there to put a framework around resolving disputes and putting in place accountability, from what I have seen, it does a very good job of this. That said:
There will be times when accountability is hard to attribute
The buyer doesn't know their rights and makes unreasonable demands
The dealer is dodgy as hell and probably operating illegally
Those though arent the fault of the legislation put in place, and it is very much workable if you know your rights and how to enact them.
coldel said:
Copy/Pasted...but in short as someone said above. I think there is a grey area here in that they technically haven't attempted to repair it yet, just source the part. So they still have the right to repair it I presume before you can reject the car. The real issue is time to repair, and what is deemed reasonable.
2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
This bit from above…2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery
How can the OP prove that the fault was there upon delivery? Or the seller prove that it wasn’t?
Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 7th September 10:14
Rs2oo said:
Hi. My daughter bought a 2012 Kia Sportage with 68k 1 previous owner FSH. After 9 weeks the diff exploded on the M225 at 60mph. She's a mum and nearly always has the kids in the car so never abuses it. 3 month warranty still valid so returned it to the trader. He is struggling two weeks later to get a part. £2600 new from dealer but he's after a used one. In house warranty. He ordered two but they both failed the suppliers test. In other words, they were duds. My problem is, I'm concerned fitting a used one will be problematic (2 duds already) so we insisted he gets a new one from Kia which he won't. So, are we justified /entitled in rejecting the car for a full refund ?
Thank-you
This is a similar story to me when I bought a Kia Sorento and only found out that the AWD system was knackered when I got the front end stuck in a snow/mud field. Apparently a very common issue, the coupler or something but was told it was £4k in parts and labour as KIA only part. Local engineer had just finished repairing one the previous day and said get shot as the front diff, rear diff etc would all follow and cost thousands. Went to KIA for a quote and they said they were repairing them weekly!!! Thank-you
Fortunately, the dealer took the car back and I left them an excellent review in return.
LeadFarmer said:
coldel said:
Copy/Pasted...but in short as someone said above. I think there is a grey area here in that they technically haven't attempted to repair it yet, just source the part. So they still have the right to repair it I presume before you can reject the car. The real issue is time to repair, and what is deemed reasonable.
2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
This bit from above…2. Right to a repair or replacement
If you find a defect after 30 days, but within six months, you can request a car repair or replacement. The dealer chooses which is the best and more affordable option for them, so you usually can’t ask for your preferred choice. You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove it wasn’t.
The Consumer Rights Act stipulates that dealers will only get one chance to repair or replace the product, so dealers can’t make multiple attempts to fix a problem unless otherwise agreed. If they fail to remedy the fault in one attempt or within a reasonable time period, you’ll be entitled to a full or partial refund. Alternatively, you can ask for another attempt at repairing/ replacing or for financial compensation.
The law says, in almost every case, there can be no reductions from any refund given in the first six months. However, motor vehicles are the one exception, where the seller can make a ‘reasonable’ reduction for the amount the car has been used.
The Consumer Rights Act helped at overcoming the previous legislation’s drawback where dealers were allowed more than one attempt at repairing or replacing the product and it was more difficult to get a refund.
You are entitled to this right if the fault was there at the time of delivery
How can the OP prove that the fault was there upon delivery? Or the seller prove that it wasn’t?
Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 7th September 10:14
The legislation is not there to solve the problem, its there as a legal framework for two parties to resolve the issue - which is its always good to maintain good relations with the dealership and work towards a solution.
coldel said:
The seller does not need to prove it wasn't. The onus is very much on the buyer after 30 days to prove the fault was there at purchase.
Wrong! This from the motoring ombudsman:
It’s worth bearing in mind that, if the issue occurs in the first six months after buying the car, it’s up to the selling dealership or garage to prove that it was of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described when they sold it to you.
Full test here - worth a read
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/w...
coldel said:
KTMsm said:
If you've tried to buy a cheap car recently (I looked for a £1k car for my daughter) most are sold by non uk nationals from car parks / farms - you'll be lucky to get a genuine name / address and absolutely no chance of any redress should something go wrong
That's what happens when the laws are unworkable
To be fair, prior to CRA2015 there was nothing specific to the uniqueness of dealing with car purchases. I have seen many people use the CRA2015 many times to help resolve conflict with dealers. That's what happens when the laws are unworkable
The legislation is there to put a framework around resolving disputes and putting in place accountability, from what I have seen, it does a very good job of this. That said:
There will be times when accountability is hard to attribute
The buyer doesn't know their rights and makes unreasonable demands
The dealer is dodgy as hell and probably operating illegally
Those though arent the fault of the legislation put in place, and it is very much workable if you know your rights and how to enact them.
A sub £3k car is what it is, if you are unable to weigh that risk, assess / fix a car you shouldn't be buying one
So what has happened it that you now have non reputable sellers bodging things up far more than previously occurred
There was a court case some years ago that was published IIRC in the Telegraph where a buyer of a £1500 car took a Trader to Court as something broke.
The Judge wisely IMO ruled that if you are buying a car for less than the price of a service then you should be grateful if it even gets you home !
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