E92 M3 VS 911 997/996
Discussion
Hi all! Hope you're having a nice and peaceful start to another week!
So I'll keep this fairly short, I'm currently looking at picking up a second toy/weekend car as I already have another one (Bbr turbo mk1 mx5) since I'm contracting away in europe I do not have a need for a daily back home in the UK.
Due to these circumstances I do not really have any criteria other than wanting the car to be special enough for me and fun to drive, my options are within the 25K ish budget maybe a little more for the right car. I'm looking at either an E92 M3 Comp or something along the lines of a 997 911 C2S or a 996 911 C4S.
If any of you have owned these 2 cars or driven them and or have any relevant input or opinions to add to the topic, which might help my decision making, I would greatly appreciate that.
Alternatively if any of yous have any alternative cars I might have not considered I'd be happy to hear everyone out on such suggestions.
Thank you all
So I'll keep this fairly short, I'm currently looking at picking up a second toy/weekend car as I already have another one (Bbr turbo mk1 mx5) since I'm contracting away in europe I do not have a need for a daily back home in the UK.
Due to these circumstances I do not really have any criteria other than wanting the car to be special enough for me and fun to drive, my options are within the 25K ish budget maybe a little more for the right car. I'm looking at either an E92 M3 Comp or something along the lines of a 997 911 C2S or a 996 911 C4S.
If any of you have owned these 2 cars or driven them and or have any relevant input or opinions to add to the topic, which might help my decision making, I would greatly appreciate that.
Alternatively if any of yous have any alternative cars I might have not considered I'd be happy to hear everyone out on such suggestions.
Thank you all
Very different cars so a test drive would probably make your decision quite obvious. E92 is low traction fun with a screaming v8 and some engine wear issues that need to have been fixed, but are fairly reliable once resolved. 911 is very composed with loads of traction and torque from a slightly muted flat 6 and quite a feels like a nice GT again some obvious potential engine issues which are more expensive to rectify and higher running costs than the bmw in general (radiator replacements etc).
Drive in standard 997 told me I would need the GT3 version to get the experience I'd want as my Z4m coupe was just more exciting.
Drive in standard 997 told me I would need the GT3 version to get the experience I'd want as my Z4m coupe was just more exciting.
I had the same decision to make 5 years ago and I ended up test driving the M3 first, as I was already coming from a BMW Z4.
At the time, the unmodified M3 I drove felt heavy and from inside the car looking out, felt unremarkable. The car I test drove was a healthy main dealer unmodified M3 non comp pack in Jerez Black with black interior. From inside it felt boring at legal speeds. I was sat too high in the car and the manual gear box was not my thing, being very typically notchy as per my Z4. Despite enjoying the sound it made (still do), I walked away.
The unmodified 997 C2S I test drove was a similarly muted colour scheme - Atlas Grey with Black interior. Within minutes of driving the car my mind was already made up. It felt agile and bristling at legal speeds. The seating position is leagues ahead of the M3 and looking from inside out, it felt and still feels very special. The gearbox is also a joy to use when warm, however it does need a gentle touch when cold otherwise you'll find it's notchy from first to second.
Both engines are excellent. I would say the M3 sounds better through 90% of the rev range, but the last 1krpm in the 911 is a real crescendo and I'm still not bored of it. To me it feels like it packs much more of a punch than the M3 but in reality it's probably very similar.
I do occasionally look at M3s and think I would enjoy the extra space the car offers, but then I drive the 997 and remember why I love it. Owned for 5 years and it still ticks the boxed for me.
I think you need to look at what you prioritise from a car and it will help make up your mind pretty quickly.
As a side note, I've tracked my 997 fairly often and it's very light on it's consumables. I have not experience of this in the M3 but I would assume it would cook itself fairly quickly with the added weight.
At the time, the unmodified M3 I drove felt heavy and from inside the car looking out, felt unremarkable. The car I test drove was a healthy main dealer unmodified M3 non comp pack in Jerez Black with black interior. From inside it felt boring at legal speeds. I was sat too high in the car and the manual gear box was not my thing, being very typically notchy as per my Z4. Despite enjoying the sound it made (still do), I walked away.
The unmodified 997 C2S I test drove was a similarly muted colour scheme - Atlas Grey with Black interior. Within minutes of driving the car my mind was already made up. It felt agile and bristling at legal speeds. The seating position is leagues ahead of the M3 and looking from inside out, it felt and still feels very special. The gearbox is also a joy to use when warm, however it does need a gentle touch when cold otherwise you'll find it's notchy from first to second.
Both engines are excellent. I would say the M3 sounds better through 90% of the rev range, but the last 1krpm in the 911 is a real crescendo and I'm still not bored of it. To me it feels like it packs much more of a punch than the M3 but in reality it's probably very similar.
I do occasionally look at M3s and think I would enjoy the extra space the car offers, but then I drive the 997 and remember why I love it. Owned for 5 years and it still ticks the boxed for me.
I think you need to look at what you prioritise from a car and it will help make up your mind pretty quickly.
As a side note, I've tracked my 997 fairly often and it's very light on it's consumables. I have not experience of this in the M3 but I would assume it would cook itself fairly quickly with the added weight.
Very different cars.
I’m a big fan of the E9x M3; the engine is a masterpiece. The issues are fairly well known and easy enough to fix. I think it’s a car that suits the DCT well. The interior isn’t vastly different to a 320d, but it’s fine. They’re quite a heavy old beast and at the end of the day they’re based on humble beginnings.
The 911 is a proper sports car, less practical if you need to carry passengers. Potential for bigger bills though. Personally I’m not a fan of the 996 interior, less issue if it’s a toy.
I’m a big fan of the E9x M3; the engine is a masterpiece. The issues are fairly well known and easy enough to fix. I think it’s a car that suits the DCT well. The interior isn’t vastly different to a 320d, but it’s fine. They’re quite a heavy old beast and at the end of the day they’re based on humble beginnings.
The 911 is a proper sports car, less practical if you need to carry passengers. Potential for bigger bills though. Personally I’m not a fan of the 996 interior, less issue if it’s a toy.
I ran an E92 M3 as a daily for 2.5 years…. Engine is delightful but for me not as special as a 911, however, that opinion varies daily!
I also think using mine as a daily driver ruined the experience- and it had a few of the known faults crop up.
I’m debating similar thing but including Aston Martin Vantage….. which I think is much more special than both.
I also think using mine as a daily driver ruined the experience- and it had a few of the known faults crop up.
I’m debating similar thing but including Aston Martin Vantage….. which I think is much more special than both.
whp1983 said:
I ran an E92 M3 as a daily for 2.5 years…. Engine is delightful but for me not as special as a 911, however, that opinion varies daily!
I also think using mine as a daily driver ruined the experience- and it had a few of the known faults crop up.
I’m debating similar thing but including Aston Martin Vantage….. which I think is much more special than both.
I had this exact debate with myself last year - E92 M3 or 997 C2S.I also think using mine as a daily driver ruined the experience- and it had a few of the known faults crop up.
I’m debating similar thing but including Aston Martin Vantage….. which I think is much more special than both.
Ended up with a V8 Vantage and couldn't be happier with my choice
Very interesting! Thanks for the input guys ,
,- In terms of the test drive, I will certainly be looking at test driving both before making the final choice as that's the only way I believe you'll get an idea of what the ownership will feel like
- touching up on the daily driving aspect, once again I'm not too worried as both of my cars will be spending most of their time in a car storage since I'm away contracting in europe for most of the year
- regarding the reliability factors, I do have a good understanding and done my research on the Rod bearing and throttle actuator stuff on the M3 and would make sure I pick one up that had all the work done, when it comes to the porsche I understand they had some bore scoring and ims issues which I will also be very careful and selective about
- to add to the topic, for a few months my decision for clear and I was set on the E92 Comp but I'm currently doing a contract in Stuttgart Germany, and after visiting the porsche musuem this past weekend, I was so impressed and my opinion and decision has been slightly swayed so that also adds another aspect to my thinking.
- in terms of track driving, I dont think it would be seeing very much of that regardless since I also own the bbr turbo mk1 mx5 which is built to be a fast road/track car and has seen quiet a lot of track time under my ownership so that would remain a car of choice for fhat kind of motoring
ImDesigner said:
I had the same decision to make 5 years ago and I ended up test driving the M3 first, as I was already coming from a BMW Z4.
At the time, the unmodified M3 I drove felt heavy and from inside the car looking out, felt unremarkable. The car I test drove was a healthy main dealer unmodified M3 non comp pack in Jerez Black with black interior. From inside it felt boring at legal speeds. I was sat too high in the car and the manual gear box was not my thing, being very typically notchy as per my Z4. Despite enjoying the sound it made (still do), I walked away.
The unmodified 997 C2S I test drove was a similarly muted colour scheme - Atlas Grey with Black interior. Within minutes of driving the car my mind was already made up. It felt agile and bristling at legal speeds. The seating position is leagues ahead of the M3 and looking from inside out, it felt and still feels very special. The gearbox is also a joy to use when warm, however it does need a gentle touch when cold otherwise you'll find it's notchy from first to second.
Both engines are excellent. I would say the M3 sounds better through 90% of the rev range, but the last 1krpm in the 911 is a real crescendo and I'm still not bored of it. To me it feels like it packs much more of a punch than the M3 but in reality it's probably very similar.
I do occasionally look at M3s and think I would enjoy the extra space the car offers, but then I drive the 997 and remember why I love it. Owned for 5 years and it still ticks the boxed for me.
I think you need to look at what you prioritise from a car and it will help make up your mind pretty quickly.
As a side note, I've tracked my 997 fairly often and it's very light on it's consumables. I have not experience of this in the M3 but I would assume it would cook itself fairly quickly with the added weight.
What's your opinion on the 996/C4S vs 997 C2S topic? As in case I chose a 911, I'm not sure what to go for, heart says a 997 C2s or a 911 S but all the 997 generations models and trim levels absolutely baffle me at this point lol, At the time, the unmodified M3 I drove felt heavy and from inside the car looking out, felt unremarkable. The car I test drove was a healthy main dealer unmodified M3 non comp pack in Jerez Black with black interior. From inside it felt boring at legal speeds. I was sat too high in the car and the manual gear box was not my thing, being very typically notchy as per my Z4. Despite enjoying the sound it made (still do), I walked away.
The unmodified 997 C2S I test drove was a similarly muted colour scheme - Atlas Grey with Black interior. Within minutes of driving the car my mind was already made up. It felt agile and bristling at legal speeds. The seating position is leagues ahead of the M3 and looking from inside out, it felt and still feels very special. The gearbox is also a joy to use when warm, however it does need a gentle touch when cold otherwise you'll find it's notchy from first to second.
Both engines are excellent. I would say the M3 sounds better through 90% of the rev range, but the last 1krpm in the 911 is a real crescendo and I'm still not bored of it. To me it feels like it packs much more of a punch than the M3 but in reality it's probably very similar.
I do occasionally look at M3s and think I would enjoy the extra space the car offers, but then I drive the 997 and remember why I love it. Owned for 5 years and it still ticks the boxed for me.
I think you need to look at what you prioritise from a car and it will help make up your mind pretty quickly.
As a side note, I've tracked my 997 fairly often and it's very light on it's consumables. I have not experience of this in the M3 but I would assume it would cook itself fairly quickly with the added weight.
SO ran an E36 M3 as a daily for 6 years and took it to 180k miles had a lot of fun but imho too heavy and all the b***hit stories you hear about how fast top end etc is all pub bragging, moved onto a 635d as a daily and so much a better car for the daily60 mile round trip and is quicker - yes i know they are worlds apart in age technology etc.
Have a 996 C4S as toy and after 2 years starting to really gel with it and enjoy it on an occassional run. yes it is an auto which suits my lazy driving style.
As mentioned please test drive both as they will handle and feel completely different and good luck with your choice.
Have a 996 C4S as toy and after 2 years starting to really gel with it and enjoy it on an occassional run. yes it is an auto which suits my lazy driving style.
As mentioned please test drive both as they will handle and feel completely different and good luck with your choice.
RedefineAutomotive said:
ImDesigner said:
I had the same decision to make 5 years ago and I ended up test driving the M3 first, as I was already coming from a BMW Z4.
At the time, the unmodified M3 I drove felt heavy and from inside the car looking out, felt unremarkable. The car I test drove was a healthy main dealer unmodified M3 non comp pack in Jerez Black with black interior. From inside it felt boring at legal speeds. I was sat too high in the car and the manual gear box was not my thing, being very typically notchy as per my Z4. Despite enjoying the sound it made (still do), I walked away.
The unmodified 997 C2S I test drove was a similarly muted colour scheme - Atlas Grey with Black interior. Within minutes of driving the car my mind was already made up. It felt agile and bristling at legal speeds. The seating position is leagues ahead of the M3 and looking from inside out, it felt and still feels very special. The gearbox is also a joy to use when warm, however it does need a gentle touch when cold otherwise you'll find it's notchy from first to second.
Both engines are excellent. I would say the M3 sounds better through 90% of the rev range, but the last 1krpm in the 911 is a real crescendo and I'm still not bored of it. To me it feels like it packs much more of a punch than the M3 but in reality it's probably very similar.
I do occasionally look at M3s and think I would enjoy the extra space the car offers, but then I drive the 997 and remember why I love it. Owned for 5 years and it still ticks the boxed for me.
I think you need to look at what you prioritise from a car and it will help make up your mind pretty quickly.
As a side note, I've tracked my 997 fairly often and it's very light on it's consumables. I have not experience of this in the M3 but I would assume it would cook itself fairly quickly with the added weight.
What's your opinion on the 996/C4S vs 997 C2S topic? As in case I chose a 911, I'm not sure what to go for, heart says a 997 C2s or a 911 S but all the 997 generations models and trim levels absolutely baffle me at this point lol, At the time, the unmodified M3 I drove felt heavy and from inside the car looking out, felt unremarkable. The car I test drove was a healthy main dealer unmodified M3 non comp pack in Jerez Black with black interior. From inside it felt boring at legal speeds. I was sat too high in the car and the manual gear box was not my thing, being very typically notchy as per my Z4. Despite enjoying the sound it made (still do), I walked away.
The unmodified 997 C2S I test drove was a similarly muted colour scheme - Atlas Grey with Black interior. Within minutes of driving the car my mind was already made up. It felt agile and bristling at legal speeds. The seating position is leagues ahead of the M3 and looking from inside out, it felt and still feels very special. The gearbox is also a joy to use when warm, however it does need a gentle touch when cold otherwise you'll find it's notchy from first to second.
Both engines are excellent. I would say the M3 sounds better through 90% of the rev range, but the last 1krpm in the 911 is a real crescendo and I'm still not bored of it. To me it feels like it packs much more of a punch than the M3 but in reality it's probably very similar.
I do occasionally look at M3s and think I would enjoy the extra space the car offers, but then I drive the 997 and remember why I love it. Owned for 5 years and it still ticks the boxed for me.
I think you need to look at what you prioritise from a car and it will help make up your mind pretty quickly.
As a side note, I've tracked my 997 fairly often and it's very light on it's consumables. I have not experience of this in the M3 but I would assume it would cook itself fairly quickly with the added weight.
With regards to the 996 C4S, it's the nicest looking non GT 996 in my opinion so you can't go wrong if that's your final choice. Personally, the 997 interior wins it for me but I can see why a potential buyer would pick the 996. I wouldn't rule out a basic 997 Carrera either. My specialist swears that a pair of sports cats has them feeling equally as potent as an S, although I don't have first hand experience of this.
Overall I prefer the 997 because in person, a well cared for example looks plenty muscular enough and yet classy with it.
If it helps, my average running costs per annum on my 997 has been 2k per year. It wants for nothing though, and that figure includes a front end respray that goes down as far as the middle of the doors.
If you take out non essentials, the running costs have been 1k per annum and this has been enough to keep it mechanically tip top.
Tough choice to make indeed mate!
When it comes to cruising or just something to lug about, it's not my sort of thing I'm more into just handling/drivers cars/ more about the character and how it feels to drive rather than just outright numbers as well, hence why I got bbr to build the turbo mk1 mx5, only 250bhp but it's under a ton and has a coil over setup, antirollbars ect, hence why cars like the Maserati or a mustang or anything along those lines doesnt appeal to me at all I think
When it comes to cruising or just something to lug about, it's not my sort of thing I'm more into just handling/drivers cars/ more about the character and how it feels to drive rather than just outright numbers as well, hence why I got bbr to build the turbo mk1 mx5, only 250bhp but it's under a ton and has a coil over setup, antirollbars ect, hence why cars like the Maserati or a mustang or anything along those lines doesnt appeal to me at all I think
ImDesigner said:
I'm a narrow body 911 fan, certainly in 997 form because I think the 997 C4/S has a weighty looking proportion to the front of the lower rear wheel arch which to my eye, doesn't look as good. I also prefer the RWD version because I want to experience the lateral slip it offers. It was half the reason I looked at the M3 as well.
With regards to the 996 C4S, it's the nicest looking non GT 996 in my opinion so you can't go wrong if that's your final choice. Personally, the 997 interior wins it for me but I can see why a potential buyer would pick the 996. I wouldn't rule out a basic 997 Carrera either. My specialist swears that a pair of sports cats has them feeling equally as potent as an S, although I don't have first hand experience of this.
Overall I prefer the 997 because in person, a well cared for example looks plenty muscular enough and yet classy with it.
If it helps, my average running costs per annum on my 997 has been 2k per year. It wants for nothing though, and that figure includes a front end respray that goes down as far as the middle of the doors.
If you take out non essentials, the running costs have been 1k per annum and this has been enough to keep it mechanically tip top.
Very interesting mate, thanks for the insight! I think touching up on what you said about rwd and the narrow body, a 997 C2S would be a good option for me as its plenty enough power whilst still looking great and not carrying too much weight with it.With regards to the 996 C4S, it's the nicest looking non GT 996 in my opinion so you can't go wrong if that's your final choice. Personally, the 997 interior wins it for me but I can see why a potential buyer would pick the 996. I wouldn't rule out a basic 997 Carrera either. My specialist swears that a pair of sports cats has them feeling equally as potent as an S, although I don't have first hand experience of this.
Overall I prefer the 997 because in person, a well cared for example looks plenty muscular enough and yet classy with it.
If it helps, my average running costs per annum on my 997 has been 2k per year. It wants for nothing though, and that figure includes a front end respray that goes down as far as the middle of the doors.
If you take out non essentials, the running costs have been 1k per annum and this has been enough to keep it mechanically tip top.
Running cost wise that's actually fairly cheap to be quiet honest! Not too much difference between the e92 m3 and a 911 from what I've heard but then again I'll probably be doing 1000 miles a year on it tops since I'm mostly away, how about the common topic which is the reliability of them and the common faults which as far as I know are quiet rare but still can occur
RedefineAutomotive said:
ImDesigner said:
I'm a narrow body 911 fan, certainly in 997 form because I think the 997 C4/S has a weighty looking proportion to the front of the lower rear wheel arch which to my eye, doesn't look as good. I also prefer the RWD version because I want to experience the lateral slip it offers. It was half the reason I looked at the M3 as well.
With regards to the 996 C4S, it's the nicest looking non GT 996 in my opinion so you can't go wrong if that's your final choice. Personally, the 997 interior wins it for me but I can see why a potential buyer would pick the 996. I wouldn't rule out a basic 997 Carrera either. My specialist swears that a pair of sports cats has them feeling equally as potent as an S, although I don't have first hand experience of this.
Overall I prefer the 997 because in person, a well cared for example looks plenty muscular enough and yet classy with it.
If it helps, my average running costs per annum on my 997 has been 2k per year. It wants for nothing though, and that figure includes a front end respray that goes down as far as the middle of the doors.
If you take out non essentials, the running costs have been 1k per annum and this has been enough to keep it mechanically tip top.
Very interesting mate, thanks for the insight! I think touching up on what you said about rwd and the narrow body, a 997 C2S would be a good option for me as its plenty enough power whilst still looking great and not carrying too much weight with it.With regards to the 996 C4S, it's the nicest looking non GT 996 in my opinion so you can't go wrong if that's your final choice. Personally, the 997 interior wins it for me but I can see why a potential buyer would pick the 996. I wouldn't rule out a basic 997 Carrera either. My specialist swears that a pair of sports cats has them feeling equally as potent as an S, although I don't have first hand experience of this.
Overall I prefer the 997 because in person, a well cared for example looks plenty muscular enough and yet classy with it.
If it helps, my average running costs per annum on my 997 has been 2k per year. It wants for nothing though, and that figure includes a front end respray that goes down as far as the middle of the doors.
If you take out non essentials, the running costs have been 1k per annum and this has been enough to keep it mechanically tip top.
Running cost wise that's actually fairly cheap to be quiet honest! Not too much difference between the e92 m3 and a 911 from what I've heard but then again I'll probably be doing 1000 miles a year on it tops since I'm mostly away, how about the common topic which is the reliability of them and the common faults which as far as I know are quiet rare but still can occur
I've had an alternator go and I changed the wiring loom that goes to the starter and this gets less efficient with age and as a result the engine will turn over more slowly and at worst, give you hot start issues. This was changed at the same time as the alternator for around £450 if my memory serves me well.
I've had mild water ingress on both doors where the seal around the module plate has perished. Remove this and reseal yourself for pennies and a couple of hours work, like I did.
I tend to operate on doing pre-emptive maintenance and it's served me well with this car. You could spend less, but I'd recommend keeping on top of any upcoming issues otherwise I could see the bills racking up. I would also use a good specialist but do shop around, as some of the recommended ones charge like they're main dealers. When I enquired about resolving the water ingress issue, a certain farmer Porsche specialist quoted me £90 just to pour water over the doors with a hose.
I have an E92 M3 DCT which is becoming a bit of a garage queen - only used 6 months a year. It's a good all-rounder and feels a nicer place to sit in than an older 911. The engine is superb but carries a bit more weight than the Porsche. I also have a fettled MX-5 otherwise I'd replace both with a 991/997.2.
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