C63 AMG (W204), M3 (E90) or RS4 (B7)
Discussion
I’m lucky enough to have owned a few performance cars over the past 30 years or do and currently in my garage I have a mk1 MX5 (Eunos import), an Impreza (blobeye) WRX STI PPP, RS Clio 182 and a Megane RS250 Cup. All are great cars and all serve a purpose (also have a daily driver shogun sport) but by coincidence I’ve ended up with a couple of Japanese and the two French Renaults.
I’m now thinking of another car to add to the garage and I think a German, stealthy, saloon/estate would really compliment the garage nicely. I’m now researching either the RS4 B7, C63 AMG W204 or an E90 M3.
I’ve driven an E93 M3 convertible, great car, loved the engine and probably feel that the E90 is the obvious choice. But I tend not to like the obvious and seem to be that more common (E92) than the Audi or Merc. They also don’t do an estate (not a deal breaker but an estate is probably my preferred choice!)
The RS4 looks great and I’ve driven a v10 c6 RS6 and later RS7 that were both fabulously quick but I’ve always thought that the RS4’s were a little less pure with there Quattro 4WD rather than RWD.
And then there’s the W204 C63 AMG. Owned plenty of Mercs in my time (inc a SL500) but never something as mad as the 6.2l V8 from the C63. It’s probably my favorite of the 3 because of the wonderful engine even though the driving experience may not be up to M car standards. There’s just something so special about a C63 AMG.
So the question is; with all of the cars in the same ballpark (c.£20k) what would you pick? Currently my preference is C63 first, then RS4, then M3. Thoughts? And I’d appreciate views on anyone that has owned any/all of the above. Thanks
I’m now thinking of another car to add to the garage and I think a German, stealthy, saloon/estate would really compliment the garage nicely. I’m now researching either the RS4 B7, C63 AMG W204 or an E90 M3.
I’ve driven an E93 M3 convertible, great car, loved the engine and probably feel that the E90 is the obvious choice. But I tend not to like the obvious and seem to be that more common (E92) than the Audi or Merc. They also don’t do an estate (not a deal breaker but an estate is probably my preferred choice!)
The RS4 looks great and I’ve driven a v10 c6 RS6 and later RS7 that were both fabulously quick but I’ve always thought that the RS4’s were a little less pure with there Quattro 4WD rather than RWD.
And then there’s the W204 C63 AMG. Owned plenty of Mercs in my time (inc a SL500) but never something as mad as the 6.2l V8 from the C63. It’s probably my favorite of the 3 because of the wonderful engine even though the driving experience may not be up to M car standards. There’s just something so special about a C63 AMG.
So the question is; with all of the cars in the same ballpark (c.£20k) what would you pick? Currently my preference is C63 first, then RS4, then M3. Thoughts? And I’d appreciate views on anyone that has owned any/all of the above. Thanks
Richard-rjbph said:
So the question is; with all of the cars in the same ballpark (c.£20k) what would you pick? Currently my preference is C63 first, then RS4, then M3. Thoughts? And I’d appreciate views on anyone that has owned any/all of the above. Thanks
I echo this and I've had an E92 M3. The C63 has the engine/noise for me, and the RS4 also has the engine/noise. Whereas for me the M3 doesn't have the engine or the noise in comparison to the Merc/Audi. The E92 M3 has the least V8 engine if you know what I mean in comparison to its rivals for me.
Tommie38 said:
C63 if you like the torque from the turbocharged motors.
E90 M3 particularly with full interior is a bit heavy and torque-light for me. You might find it surprising how much you need to rev it.
Isn't the 6.2 V8 C63 the OP is interested in, naturally aspirated? I thought the turbos came on the W205?E90 M3 particularly with full interior is a bit heavy and torque-light for me. You might find it surprising how much you need to rev it.
Edited by Tommie38 on Wednesday 28th September 15:23
I had a similar choice to make about five years ago. My shortlist was an E92 M3, a W204 C63 and a B7 RS4. As others have mentioned, the M3 really needed to be revved before it got interesting which didn't suit me at all. The C63 was glorious apart from the gearbox which I really didn't get on with. I ended up getting a B7 RS4 (estate) which sounded fantastic, had a manual gearbox and, while it did its best work higher up the rev range, it still had a useful amount of grunt at lower revs.
I'm still gutted that the C63 wasn't available as a manual. The 6.2 in that is one of the best engines I've ever experienced.
I'm still gutted that the C63 wasn't available as a manual. The 6.2 in that is one of the best engines I've ever experienced.
I still have seller's remorse three years after selling my C63 estate. The noise and theatre are worth the annual VED. It was the perfect road car for me, fast, comfortable, makes a great noise and up to 8/10ths, after that, it's dynamics are compromised. The E90 M3 is the better car at 8-10/10ths if you want to press on and the DCT the better gearbox but I found the C63's perfectly good enough on the road. The E90 needs revs, the C63 has a wall of torque throughout the rev range.
The C63 wasn't that expensive to run. Nothing broke, 20mpg was acceptable for the noise and performance and it didn't shred tyres. Lots of internet bravado in my opinion with people quoting 5000 miles from rear tyres.
I need another fast estate and toying between another 204 or a 205, depending on finances.
Never driven a RS4.
The C63 wasn't that expensive to run. Nothing broke, 20mpg was acceptable for the noise and performance and it didn't shred tyres. Lots of internet bravado in my opinion with people quoting 5000 miles from rear tyres.
I need another fast estate and toying between another 204 or a 205, depending on finances.
Never driven a RS4.
Edited by Mark83 on Wednesday 28th September 17:26
Thanks everyone for the feedback so far. It’s all helping formulate a list in my head.
I think it’s important to remember what I’m buying the car for. It won’t be used as the 10/10ths car as I have others that can do that brilliantly and probably why I’m a little less attracted to the E90 M3. Having driven a E93 I also found the engine great, but boy did you have to rev it out to extract all that performance. Im still feeling that the E90 is in 3rd place for me albeit it probably is the better drivers car.
Im still a little torn between the B7 RS4 and the W204 C63. All the research I’ve done has said that the RS4 is a monster of a car but I’ve always found Audis lacking in driver involvement- steering always felt heavy, with little feedback and they always appeared to be too nose heavy resulting in understeer! It’s probably an unfair bias but that’s why I need others views, especially those that have owned one. But I do love the look of the RS4’s.
Im still putting the C63 ahead. Predominately because of its intended use. It won’t be a daily, but will make a great stealthy 4 door that I can cruise around in and perhaps have a few playful moments in the wet! That NA 6.2 sounds awesome and for that alone it’s pushed to my current no.1. But there are a couple of reservations. Is an LSD needed? As most I’ve been looking at don’t seem to have one fitted. I’m worried that it will just hinder what could be a very entertaining RWD car if I don’t buy one with an LSD! And still nervous about reliability of Mercs built in the late-2000’s. Although was pleased to see that 20mpg can be achieved.
Thanks for the comments so far and please continue.
I think it’s important to remember what I’m buying the car for. It won’t be used as the 10/10ths car as I have others that can do that brilliantly and probably why I’m a little less attracted to the E90 M3. Having driven a E93 I also found the engine great, but boy did you have to rev it out to extract all that performance. Im still feeling that the E90 is in 3rd place for me albeit it probably is the better drivers car.
Im still a little torn between the B7 RS4 and the W204 C63. All the research I’ve done has said that the RS4 is a monster of a car but I’ve always found Audis lacking in driver involvement- steering always felt heavy, with little feedback and they always appeared to be too nose heavy resulting in understeer! It’s probably an unfair bias but that’s why I need others views, especially those that have owned one. But I do love the look of the RS4’s.
Im still putting the C63 ahead. Predominately because of its intended use. It won’t be a daily, but will make a great stealthy 4 door that I can cruise around in and perhaps have a few playful moments in the wet! That NA 6.2 sounds awesome and for that alone it’s pushed to my current no.1. But there are a couple of reservations. Is an LSD needed? As most I’ve been looking at don’t seem to have one fitted. I’m worried that it will just hinder what could be a very entertaining RWD car if I don’t buy one with an LSD! And still nervous about reliability of Mercs built in the late-2000’s. Although was pleased to see that 20mpg can be achieved.
Thanks for the comments so far and please continue.
The 6.2 is largely bullet proof, especially in facelift form. It's a well used and proven engine. Some scary head bolt issues with early cars, but very rare. Mine never put a foot wrong, breezed through MOTs and even complimented by my local Mercedes dealer's service department.
I had a PPP facelift so no LSD as standard but +30bhp, red calipers and a nice alcantara steering wheel. Did the lack of LSD spoil the car? No. I wouldn't drive mine that hard with WOT out of corners, more a squirt down a slip road or going from a 30mph limit to NSL. I sandwiched my C63 with an M3 and M4, these encouraged me push on and feel the diff grip and propel me out of corners, the C63 was so torquey I just let that do its thing and wafted out of corners in comparison. A Quaife can be added for c.£1000 if you struggle without. Winter tyres were money well spent though.
I really rate them as there's just something about them, they feel more than the sum of their parts. I've never re-bought a car but it really got under my skin.
I had a PPP facelift so no LSD as standard but +30bhp, red calipers and a nice alcantara steering wheel. Did the lack of LSD spoil the car? No. I wouldn't drive mine that hard with WOT out of corners, more a squirt down a slip road or going from a 30mph limit to NSL. I sandwiched my C63 with an M3 and M4, these encouraged me push on and feel the diff grip and propel me out of corners, the C63 was so torquey I just let that do its thing and wafted out of corners in comparison. A Quaife can be added for c.£1000 if you struggle without. Winter tyres were money well spent though.
I really rate them as there's just something about them, they feel more than the sum of their parts. I've never re-bought a car but it really got under my skin.
Edited by Mark83 on Wednesday 28th September 20:58
I was looking at the same list a couple of years back and ended up with a Lexus ISF.
Glorious thing, very reliable and there's not really any issues on UK cars, so relatively cheap to run and maintain. An oil service at a local indy was the same as my golf r previous to it and it got similar mpg over a tank too. It would do 32mpg on a run at 80 odd mph (granted the golf would do more on a run), it was pretty unbelievable for a 5.0 v8 really!
Sounded awesome, went awesome, handled awesome. They got an unjust bad rap at the time from the press and even on a test run I found the reviews to be a load of rubbish. Second to this I think I would've went c63, third BMW, lastly the Audi.
Glorious thing, very reliable and there's not really any issues on UK cars, so relatively cheap to run and maintain. An oil service at a local indy was the same as my golf r previous to it and it got similar mpg over a tank too. It would do 32mpg on a run at 80 odd mph (granted the golf would do more on a run), it was pretty unbelievable for a 5.0 v8 really!
Sounded awesome, went awesome, handled awesome. They got an unjust bad rap at the time from the press and even on a test run I found the reviews to be a load of rubbish. Second to this I think I would've went c63, third BMW, lastly the Audi.
Edited by scottos on Wednesday 28th September 20:45
I can give some perspective, my brother has a very fettled E90 M3 BC Coilovers Eventuri Carbon Inlet Plenum Eisenmann Full System 6/4 Pot Wilwood brakes (he's was going to change to a Valvetronic Exhaust system but with the state of the pound at the moment that's on the back burner) he's also had all the work done so the bottom end has been done as has the Vanos & the throttle bodies (twice).
I will say I feel the DCT suits the V8 M3 better than the manual:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209059...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209220...
Coupe:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207087...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207087...
He loves this car & I have to say that when you're on it the M3 is a beast of a car & just works so well BUT for every other day of the week my CLK63 AMG is just the better car in my very bias opinion (my brother agrees with this) for the other 330 days of the year.
My OH has had two C63's (we had more issues with the later car & in particular the MCT box) the engine is epic & has torque/grunt for days (this is the big difference between this & the BMW/Audi/Lexus V8's) the other cars aren't lacking but after having a 63 they feel like they are.
I'd say the one thing that really transforms the C63 is adding an LSD it makes them a much more cohesive drive, the interior is nicer on the facelift cars but I think the auto cars are the better pick at this price point.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110078...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209039...
Facelifts:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205045...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203083...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206237...
Somewhere between the two is the Lexus IS-F this is a car that's get under your skin & one that has a very special V8:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205316...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205256...
Having had the Audi RS4 for me as good (& it is good) it is the other three would get the nod before this.
I will say I feel the DCT suits the V8 M3 better than the manual:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209059...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209220...
Coupe:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207087...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207087...
He loves this car & I have to say that when you're on it the M3 is a beast of a car & just works so well BUT for every other day of the week my CLK63 AMG is just the better car in my very bias opinion (my brother agrees with this) for the other 330 days of the year.
My OH has had two C63's (we had more issues with the later car & in particular the MCT box) the engine is epic & has torque/grunt for days (this is the big difference between this & the BMW/Audi/Lexus V8's) the other cars aren't lacking but after having a 63 they feel like they are.
I'd say the one thing that really transforms the C63 is adding an LSD it makes them a much more cohesive drive, the interior is nicer on the facelift cars but I think the auto cars are the better pick at this price point.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110078...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209039...
Facelifts:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205045...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203083...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206237...
Somewhere between the two is the Lexus IS-F this is a car that's get under your skin & one that has a very special V8:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205316...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205256...
Having had the Audi RS4 for me as good (& it is good) it is the other three would get the nod before this.
Mark83 said:
The 6.2 is largely bullet proof, especially in facelift form. It's a well used and proven engine. Some scary head bolt issues with early cars, but very rare. Mine never put a foot wrong, breezed through MOTs and even complimented by my local Mercedes dealer's service department.
I had a PPP facelift so no LSD as standard but +30bhp, red calipers and a nice alcantara steering wheel. Did the lack of LSD spoil the car? No. I wouldn't drive mine that hard with WOT out of corners, more a squirt down a slip road or going from a 30mph limit to NSL. I sandwiched my C63 with an M3 and M4, these encouraged me push on and feel the diff grip and propel me out of corners, the C63 was so torquey I just let that do its thing and wafted out of corners in comparison. A Quaife can be added for c.£1000 if you struggle without. Winter tyres were money well spent though.
I really rate them as there's just something about them, they feel more than the sum of their parts. I've never re-bought a car but it really got under my skin.
That’s really good to know - I did hear that you could retrofit an aftermarket LSD for only around £1k! Although I get what you say about not needing the LSD, it does still worry me buying without, although c.£1k seems very good value. I just think I’d want to “play” at times and the lack of the LSD could just cause lots of frustration. I had a PPP facelift so no LSD as standard but +30bhp, red calipers and a nice alcantara steering wheel. Did the lack of LSD spoil the car? No. I wouldn't drive mine that hard with WOT out of corners, more a squirt down a slip road or going from a 30mph limit to NSL. I sandwiched my C63 with an M3 and M4, these encouraged me push on and feel the diff grip and propel me out of corners, the C63 was so torquey I just let that do its thing and wafted out of corners in comparison. A Quaife can be added for c.£1000 if you struggle without. Winter tyres were money well spent though.
I really rate them as there's just something about them, they feel more than the sum of their parts. I've never re-bought a car but it really got under my skin.
Edited by Mark83 on Wednesday 28th September 20:58
scottos said:
I was looking at the same list a couple of years back and ended up with a Lexus ISF.
Glorious thing, very reliable and there's not really any issues on UK cars, so relatively cheap to run and maintain. An oil service at a local indy was the same as my golf r previous to it and it got similar mpg over a tank too. It would do 32mpg on a run at 80 odd mph (granted the golf would do more on a run), it was pretty unbelievable for a 5.0 v8 really!
Sounded awesome, went awesome, handled awesome. They got an unjust bad rap at the time from the press and even on a test run I found the reviews to be a load of rubbish. Second to this I think I would've went c63, third BMW, lastly the Audi.
We’ll that’s a left field choice that I hadn’t considered! I’ve always had a bit of an issue with Lexus! Don’t ask me why? It’s just one of those unconscious bias that you get. And having driven so many cars, I’ve yet to drive any Lexus! I’m going to take a look and do a bit more research on it. Thanks Glorious thing, very reliable and there's not really any issues on UK cars, so relatively cheap to run and maintain. An oil service at a local indy was the same as my golf r previous to it and it got similar mpg over a tank too. It would do 32mpg on a run at 80 odd mph (granted the golf would do more on a run), it was pretty unbelievable for a 5.0 v8 really!
Sounded awesome, went awesome, handled awesome. They got an unjust bad rap at the time from the press and even on a test run I found the reviews to be a load of rubbish. Second to this I think I would've went c63, third BMW, lastly the Audi.
Edited by scottos on Wednesday 28th September 20:45
I had a late 2013 W204 C63 wagon and I'm afraid to say I didn't like it very much. The engine is fabulous and easily the best thing about the car. However, the gearbox is dimwitted, it's a heavy car and I found it far too easy to break traction in anything other than warm, dry conditions.
Everyone raves about the noise but I couldn't normally hear it from the inside - now I know why the dealer insisted on opening the windows on the test drive!
Sub-20 mpg and £600+ VED didn't help either. Not the car for me, but you did ask for opinions and there's mine.
Everyone raves about the noise but I couldn't normally hear it from the inside - now I know why the dealer insisted on opening the windows on the test drive!
Sub-20 mpg and £600+ VED didn't help either. Not the car for me, but you did ask for opinions and there's mine.
Brave Fart said:
I had a late 2013 W204 C63 wagon and I'm afraid to say I didn't like it very much. The engine is fabulous and easily the best thing about the car. However, the gearbox is dimwitted, it's a heavy car and I found it far too easy to break traction in anything other than warm, dry conditions.
Everyone raves about the noise but I couldn't normally hear it from the inside - now I know why the dealer insisted on opening the windows on the test drive!
Sub-20 mpg and £600+ VED didn't help either. Not the car for me, but you did ask for opinions and there's mine.
Thanks for the info - I certainly don’t want bias opinions and need to know from owners that have experienced them (any of the three!) whether good, bad or indifferent. I’m going to be spending best part of 20k so want the truth! Interesting to hear what you said about the gearbox and the noise from inside. I did get feedback from another owner that referred to the traction control kicking in all the time and being very annoying. Did you find that also? And can I ask whether yours was fitted with the LSD? Thanks again Everyone raves about the noise but I couldn't normally hear it from the inside - now I know why the dealer insisted on opening the windows on the test drive!
Sub-20 mpg and £600+ VED didn't help either. Not the car for me, but you did ask for opinions and there's mine.
I can tell you that the OH had a Quaife LSD on her Gen1 C63 & the traction cutting in was much less (mainly only in sopping conditions with provocation) the MCT car that had no diff would see the traction cut in a fair bit more.
My CLK 63 has a lsd & traction really isn't an issue BUT these cars are tyre sensitive, where the CLK is a garage queen & won't really see the worst of winter I use Toyo's.
My CLK 63 has a lsd & traction really isn't an issue BUT these cars are tyre sensitive, where the CLK is a garage queen & won't really see the worst of winter I use Toyo's.
ZX10R NIN said:
I can tell you that the OH had a Quaife LSD on her Gen1 C63 & the traction cutting in was much less (mainly only in sopping conditions with provocation) the MCT car that had no diff would see the traction cut in a fair bit more.
My CLK 63 has a lsd & traction really isn't an issue BUT these cars are tyre sensitive, where the CLK is a garage queen & won't really see the worst of winter I use Toyo's.
I thought so much, the LSD will help maintain traction unless both lose traction and the fun begins (!) Good to hear that you believe with good tyres AND an LSD there’s no issue! My CLK 63 has a lsd & traction really isn't an issue BUT these cars are tyre sensitive, where the CLK is a garage queen & won't really see the worst of winter I use Toyo's.
How are you finding running costs per year?
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