M240i vs 440i vs m235i vs something else???

[BenGpistonhead]

Hi,

So I currently own a 430d x drive and really enjoy the car in terms of the performance, fuel economy and looks however i feel i am missing out on the sound of a nice petrol.

I have been looking at M240i, M235i and also 440i's. I test drove a 440i GC today and was quite underwhelmed at the sound..It sounded great on a cold start but when driving the car i could virtually barely hear it even with the windows down and sunroof open?? I was just wondering will this be the same on the other cars, m240i and m235i? I have noticed lots of people saying the m235i sounds better than the B58 in the 440i/m240i but didn't realise how poor the sound was on the b58's. I enquired about the MPPSK kit and the salesperson didn't seem to know much about them... he said that it was only an option on the 340i and 440i and it isn't available for the m240i/m235i's - is this true..he didn't seem too confident?

Also in terms of the MPPSK kit if they are only available on the 440i would it bring the performance up to the performance of the m240i (0-60 in 5.1 in the 440i vs 4.6 in m240i 0-60) and would it make a noticeable difference to the sound too?

I am curious to see if anyone has made a similar jump too as to be completely honest when i got back in my 430d i actually weirdly preferred the noise of my diesel....thats how underwhelming the b58 was for me..

The petrol felt slightly smoother but there was absolutely no difference in terms of speed/power from what i could feel on that short test drive.

All in all, should i be avoiding the cars stated or will the MPPSK kit make a big difference? or is it something else i should be focusing on e.g. an aftermarket exhaust etc?

any other suggestions are welcome too!

[ian_c_uk]

I owned an M140i with the M performance exhaust (free upgrade as the original valved exhaust was rattling).

I loved how it sounded on startup and under load, but was fairly muted on low revs. Felt like the perfect balance, but not sure my neighbours agreed when I had to leave (as swiftly and quietly as I could!) at 4am!

[J4CKO]

I had an M135i, did sound nice, rest of it, meh.

[brillomaster]

go buy yourself an older BMW with an M54 or N52 engine. if you want sound of a petrol engine, it needs to be naturally aspirated. something like an E92 330i, E85 Z4 3.0si, or a 130i.

they will be slower than your 430d, but they'll sound good...

[BenGpistonhead]

ian_c_uk said:

I owned an M140i with the M performance exhaust (free upgrade as the original valved exhaust was rattling).

I loved how it sounded on startup and under load, but was fairly muted on low revs. Felt like the perfect balance, but not sure my neighbours agreed when I had to leave (as swiftly and quietly as I could!) at 4am!

Yeah i would imagine the m140i sounds identical to the m240i.. did you ever hear one without the M performance exhaust? if yes was it that noticeable?

i forgot to mention the car i test drove was a 2018 model so its not pre OPF..which of course worsens the sound

[BenGpistonhead]

J4CKO said:

I had an M135i, did sound nice, rest of it, meh.

out of interest what didn't you like about it?

[BenGpistonhead]

brillomaster said:

go buy yourself an older BMW with an M54 or N52 engine. if you want sound of a petrol engine, it needs to be naturally aspirated. something like an E92 330i, E85 Z4 3.0si, or a 130i.

they will be slower than your 430d, but they'll sound good...

not a bad suggestion but personally I would like a car that has the same if not better performance as my 430d.. also reliability on the older BMW's you suggested aren't quite up there with the newer ones i'm looking at from what i've been reading/heard.


Would you say that I will be dissappointed with the sound regardless with any of the newer models? (im still looking at pre 2018 - pre OPF) just not quite pre 2014

[Hippea]

BenGpistonhead said:

Yeah i would imagine the m140i sounds identical to the m240i.. did you ever hear one without the M performance exhaust? if yes was it that noticeable?

i forgot to mention the car i test drove was a 2018 model so its not pre OPF..which of course worsens the sound

Don't quote me but I think OPF was only on late 2018 models, generally speaking 18 plate cars should be without.

[BenGpistonhead]

Hippea said:

Don't quote me but I think OPF was only on late 2018 models, generally speaking 18 plate cars should be without.

yeah i think you might be correct, this was built 03.12.2018 though so definitely is not a pre OPF that i heard today unfortunately!

[QuattroDave]

I owned an M140i from new and had a centre silencer delete. Rorty on start-up which I wish I'd disabled but quickly settled down.

Sounded okay under load with lots of brrrps and farts.

Neighbour liked mine so much he bought one too but went much further with sports cat etc. Obnoxiously loud but at c420bhp was unhinged!

But then I sold it and bought a V8 mustang and realised what a great sounding engine really sounded like!

Don't get me wrong the B58 engine is epic, incredible power AND fuel economy and I quite liked the slightly twitchy nature of the ride but I don't regret going for a big V8!

[BenGpistonhead]

QuattroDave said:

I owned an M140i from new and had a centre silencer delete. Rorty on start-up which I wish I'd disabled but quickly settled down.

Sounded okay under load with lots of brrrps and farts.

Neighbour liked mine so much he bought one too but went much further with sports cat etc. Obnoxiously loud but at c420bhp was unhinged!

But then I sold it and bought a V8 mustang and realised what a great sounding engine really sounded like!

Don't get me wrong the B58 engine is epic, incredible power AND fuel economy and I quite liked the slightly twitchy nature of the ride but I don't regret going for a big V8!

It's funny you say that as the salesperson i spoke to mentioned that the fuel economy with the b58's is very poor? what kind of mpg were you getting out of your m140i? Of course its dependent on the weight of the car, way its driven etc but roughly what should i be expecting?

he also said that they aren't twitchy at all - i asked if they were having heard that they can be and he said they aren't at all...

its interesting you say you miss the twitchy nature as i was under the impression that mustangs are very twitchy and can be all over the road!

[bodhi]

BenGpistonhead said:

not a bad suggestion but personally I would like a car that has the same if not better performance as my 430d.. also reliability on the older BMW's you suggested aren't quite up there with the newer ones i'm looking at from what i've been reading/heard.


Would you say that I will be dissappointed with the sound regardless with any of the newer models? (im still looking at pre 2018 - pre OPF) just not quite pre 2014

You shouldn't have any real reliability issues to worry about with a well maintained 130i, and from entirely unscientific experiments I've conducted with my own "130i", leaving motorway roadworks it's entirely possible to pull away from a 430d as long as you're in the right gear.

I've put 130i in parentheses as I have a 125i Coupe with the 130i remap, so identical performance to all intents and purposes.

[QuattroDave]

BenGpistonhead said:

QuattroDave said:

I owned an M140i from new and had a centre silencer delete. Rorty on start-up which I wish I'd disabled but quickly settled down.

Sounded okay under load with lots of brrrps and farts.

Neighbour liked mine so much he bought one too but went much further with sports cat etc. Obnoxiously loud but at c420bhp was unhinged!

But then I sold it and bought a V8 mustang and realised what a great sounding engine really sounded like!

Don't get me wrong the B58 engine is epic, incredible power AND fuel economy and I quite liked the slightly twitchy nature of the ride but I don't regret going for a big V8!

It's funny you say that as the salesperson i spoke to mentioned that the fuel economy with the b58's is very poor? what kind of mpg were you getting out of your m140i? Of course its dependent on the weight of the car, way its driven etc but roughly what should i be expecting?

he also said that they aren't twitchy at all - i asked if they were having heard that they can be and he said they aren't at all...

its interesting you say you miss the twitchy nature as i was under the impression that mustangs are very twitchy and can be all over the road!

Salesman is a muppet!

On my work commute (90%) motorway I'd regularly see 53mpg trip (so realistically 50mpg real world)

Over 23,000 miles from new it averaged 37mpg.

M140i's in winter are borderline undriveable without winter tyres on. The summer tyres they're sold with are great in summer but awful in the wet. Add in short wheelbase and abundance of power and suspension that's not great as standard and you've got a twitchy car!

Mustang isn't as twitchy as the M140. It's got a much longer wheelbase and they've got 'real' suspension now so generally much more compliant. When the back steps out on the mustang it's generally much slower and more controlling, on the M140i it was a bit more snappy with oversteer!

[rawenghey]

BenGpistonhead said:

I am curious to see if anyone has made a similar jump too as to be completely honest when i got back in my 430d i actually weirdly preferred the noise of my diesel....thats how underwhelming the b58 was for me..

The petrol felt slightly smoother but there was absolutely no difference in terms of speed/power from what i could feel on that short test drive.

Not doubting your experience, and completely anecdotal, but I've been in a stock 440i that has walked away from a 435d at speeds above 60mph. On a closed, private road, naturally.

I thought the B58 was an excellent motor - strong, economical and sounded great inside and out, but it wasn't a fireworks engine. It doesn't make you want to grab it by the scruff and rev the nuts off it. A while back, someone on here described it as feeling like a diesel, and whilst that's doing it a bit of a disservice, I do kinda get their point. It's a still a turbo unit that performs best in the mid range. In the above applications, it's a very good engine in a good car.

[BenGpistonhead]

bodhi said:

You shouldn't have any real reliability issues to worry about with a well maintained 130i, and from entirely unscientific experiments I've conducted with my own "130i", leaving motorway roadworks it's entirely possible to pull away from a 430d as long as you're in the right gear.

I've put 130i in parentheses as I have a 125i Coupe with the 130i remap, so identical performance to all intents and purposes.

ah ok fair enough, that's something to consider then.. i've owned a 1 series hatchback previously and really enjoyed it but i prefer the look of the coupe..i may have a look into 135i coupe's if they are reliable like you say! thank you

[BenGpistonhead]

QuattroDave said:

Salesman is a muppet!

On my work commute (90%) motorway I'd regularly see 53mpg trip (so realistically 50mpg real world)

Over 23,000 miles from new it averaged 37mpg.

M140i's in winter are borderline undriveable without winter tyres on. The summer tyres they're sold with are great in summer but awful in the wet. Add in short wheelbase and abundance of power and suspension that's not great as standard and you've got a twitchy car!

Mustang isn't as twitchy as the M140. It's got a much longer wheelbase and they've got 'real' suspension now so generally much more compliant. When the back steps out on the mustang it's generally much slower and more controlling, on the M140i it was a bit more snappy with oversteer!

I did think it was a bit bizarre that i almost knew more than him about cars he was supposed to be selling me...a lot of his responses were 'to be completely honest i don't know' and to be fair to him i guess at the end of the day it is just a 'job' for him although you would hope he would be clued up!

That is great mpg.. i get similar out of my diesel! im averaging 44mpg and high 50's on motorway journeys.

Which set of tyres would you recommend? I have heard great things about PS4S and Eagle F1's but i noticed there is now PS5 out too - would any of those be suitable for winter driving? Coming from a car with X drive id like to know i won't end up in a hedge ideally...this will be the first reasonably high power car ive had that doesn't have 4wd.

That really surprises me the mustang isn't as twitchy! Perhaps I should look at Mustangs too? how's the maintenance / running costs?

[coldel]

BenGpistonhead said:

brillomaster said:

go buy yourself an older BMW with an M54 or N52 engine. if you want sound of a petrol engine, it needs to be naturally aspirated. something like an E92 330i, E85 Z4 3.0si, or a 130i.

they will be slower than your 430d, but they'll sound good...

not a bad suggestion but personally I would like a car that has the same if not better performance as my 430d.. also reliability on the older BMW's you suggested aren't quite up there with the newer ones i'm looking at from what i've been reading/heard.


Would you say that I will be dissappointed with the sound regardless with any of the newer models? (im still looking at pre 2018 - pre OPF) just not quite pre 2014

The N52 is bullet proof, much more reliable than the turbo versions that came after...so Ive heard.

I got an E86 N52 on an 09 plate and it roars so well.

In terms of performance, the E86 is on par with your 430d. But thats by the by really. Even if you look at 0-100mph (should you ever do that realistically in the real world) even if there is a couple of seconds difference it really is nothing on the road. Just a slight loss of traction or not quite the right gear change can make that difference disappear. Whether someone drives off in the distance on a standard A road is more down to how big their balls are than the car they drive!

[BenGpistonhead]

rawenghey said:

Not doubting your experience, and completely anecdotal, but I've been in a stock 440i that has walked away from a 435d at speeds above 60mph. On a closed, private road, naturally.

I thought the B58 was an excellent motor - strong, economical and sounded great inside and out, but it wasn't a fireworks engine. It doesn't make you want to grab it by the scruff and rev the nuts off it. A while back, someone on here described it as feeling like a diesel, and whilst that's doing it a bit of a disservice, I do kinda get their point. It's a still a turbo unit that performs best in the mid range. In the above applications, it's a very good engine in a good car.

yeah i don't doubt that, 435d comes with x drive as standard so perhaps at higher speeds the power is lost with the drivetrain? up to 60 though the 435d would destroy a 440i. Unfortunately I was only able to take the 440i out on a very short test drive and of course didn't go much faster than 60 and it was also a late 2018 model so didn't sound great. The salesman told me they get low 20's at best and the one i test drove was averaging 22mpg to be fair..

Do you think it'll disappoint me if i do go for a b58?

[BenGpistonhead]

coldel said:

The N52 is bullet proof, much more reliable than the turbo versions that came after...so Ive heard.

I got an E86 N52 on an 09 plate and it roars so well.

In terms of performance, the E86 is on par with your 430d. But thats by the by really. Even if you look at 0-100mph (should you ever do that realistically in the real world) even if there is a couple of seconds difference it really is nothing on the road. Just a slight loss of traction or not quite the right gear change can make that difference disappear. Whether someone drives off in the distance on a standard A road is more down to how big their balls are than the car they drive!

yeah i would imagine they would be fairly similar performance.. i believe yours is 6.1 0-60 and the 430d xdrive is 5.1 0-60.

i completely agree with the A road comment too. I'm not too fussed about going stupidly quick around silly corners more so just raw straight line power and sound as to be completely honest i don't back myself handling lots of RWD power round silly corners just yet having adjusted to X drive for the past couple years!

[coldel]

BenGpistonhead said:

I did think it was a bit bizarre that i almost knew more than him about cars he was supposed to be selling me...a lot of his responses were 'to be completely honest i don't know' and to be fair to him i guess at the end of the day it is just a 'job' for him although you would hope he would be clued up!

That is great mpg.. i get similar out of my diesel! im averaging 44mpg and high 50's on motorway journeys.

Which set of tyres would you recommend? I have heard great things about PS4S and Eagle F1's but i noticed there is now PS5 out too - would any of those be suitable for winter driving? Coming from a car with X drive id like to know i won't end up in a hedge ideally...this will be the first reasonably high power car ive had that doesn't have 4wd.

That really surprises me the mustang isn't as twitchy! Perhaps I should look at Mustangs too? how's the maintenance / running costs?

In terms of tyres, the Continental SportContact7s have come out this year and seem to be reviewing well against the traditional Michelin and Goodyear options. https://www.evo.co.uk/car-technology/204817/contin...