Just how risky is the ML350 Bluetec?
Discussion
I'm considering the Mercedes W166 ML350 Bluetec diesel. From what I read so far though it has a few problems. Oil cooler, DPF/adblue, something to do with electronics occasionally grounding the car, etc.
Complication is that in one week I'd have to drive it across continental Europe. Is buying this model now too much of a risk?
My main question is what's the worst possible scenario? Is it the oil cooler and if so, what's the average fix cost estimate (I'm in UK if that matters) at say some reputable MB indy instead of the dealership rip off? Also, is it an acute situation that instantly grounds the car or is it something that develops symptoms over time?
Also, any other insight you could give me on this particular model is appreciated.
Complication is that in one week I'd have to drive it across continental Europe. Is buying this model now too much of a risk?
My main question is what's the worst possible scenario? Is it the oil cooler and if so, what's the average fix cost estimate (I'm in UK if that matters) at say some reputable MB indy instead of the dealership rip off? Also, is it an acute situation that instantly grounds the car or is it something that develops symptoms over time?
Also, any other insight you could give me on this particular model is appreciated.
Edited by RockDriver on Wednesday 14th December 19:13
Mercedes do have problems with their adblue set up, with failing pumps which are in situ in the tank, which Mercedes only sell as a unit so you have to buy the tank as well which is £2k or so.
They have also had wiring issues requiring replacement of part of the wiring loom, due to chaffing wires, again not a cheap fix.
The other issue is the NOx sensors which are sited in the exhaust and get drowned in condensate. These fail quite regularly and are on a several month back order and again quite costly, several £00's per sensor.
The problem being you will get a message to say the car will fail to start in 700 miles or less so if you are on a long journey be careful, you will be stranded, because it will happen at the most inconvenient time.
Mercedes will sometimes cover these with a goodwill gesture if the car is out of warranty but not guaranteed apparently.
There is lots of info if you do a search or visit the Mercedes specific forums.
They have also had wiring issues requiring replacement of part of the wiring loom, due to chaffing wires, again not a cheap fix.
The other issue is the NOx sensors which are sited in the exhaust and get drowned in condensate. These fail quite regularly and are on a several month back order and again quite costly, several £00's per sensor.
The problem being you will get a message to say the car will fail to start in 700 miles or less so if you are on a long journey be careful, you will be stranded, because it will happen at the most inconvenient time.
Mercedes will sometimes cover these with a goodwill gesture if the car is out of warranty but not guaranteed apparently.
There is lots of info if you do a search or visit the Mercedes specific forums.
Monkeylegend said:
Mercedes do have problems with their adblue set up, with failing pumps which are in situ in the tank, which Mercedes only sell as a unit so you have to buy the tank as well which is £2k or so.
They have also had wiring issues requiring replacement of part of the wiring loom, due to chaffing wires, again not a cheap fix.
The other issue is the NOx sensors which are sited in the exhaust and get drowned in condensate. These fail quite regularly and are on a several month back order and again quite costly, several £00's per sensor.
The problem being you will get a message to say the car will fail to start in 700 miles or less so if you are on a long journey be careful, you will be stranded, because it will happen at the most inconvenient time.
Mercedes will sometimes cover these with a goodwill gesture if the car is out of warranty but not guaranteed apparently.
There is lots of info if you do a search or visit the Mercedes specific forums.
Thanks for the useful info.They have also had wiring issues requiring replacement of part of the wiring loom, due to chaffing wires, again not a cheap fix.
The other issue is the NOx sensors which are sited in the exhaust and get drowned in condensate. These fail quite regularly and are on a several month back order and again quite costly, several £00's per sensor.
The problem being you will get a message to say the car will fail to start in 700 miles or less so if you are on a long journey be careful, you will be stranded, because it will happen at the most inconvenient time.
Mercedes will sometimes cover these with a goodwill gesture if the car is out of warranty but not guaranteed apparently.
There is lots of info if you do a search or visit the Mercedes specific forums.
So there's definitely a risk, but more of the artificially created risk as in the car refuses to start when some sensor reaches it's EOL. It's all about that adblue crap. To be honest the journey I'm taking is under 1300 miles one way, meaning that if the warning is actually 700 miles, I would be able to complete the journey or turn back at any point along the way.
But several month back orders on sensors? Surely if that's the case, that would ground these cars for months and make many owners absolutely furious? Sounds to me like class action material.
Regarding the adblue pump, I found this: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-electric...
If it's indeed the same thing you have in mind, it's made by Bosch and says it's compatible with this particular model, so maybe it is possible to replace it?
The wiring loom issue though is probably the most serious one on a longer trip if some essential wire gets cut and effectively shuts the car down?
darreni said:
If you need reliability, buy from a main dealer with a proper warranty. You’ll get their breakdown cover & loan car if things do go wrong. Parts issues won’t be your problem as you get a loan car if yours is off the road.
My experience is based on Merc/BMW/ Nissan.
Do you mean "approved used" cars on MB's website? Because if so they don't have any MLs there, only GLEs that start at around 30 grand.My experience is based on Merc/BMW/ Nissan.
RockDriver said:
But several month back orders on sensors? Surely if that's the case, that would ground these cars for months and make many owners absolutely furious? Sounds to me like class action material.
A quick scan of the specific marque forums will tell you this is the case and has been for some time, and yes some cars have been in the dealers for months waiting for sensors.Whether you get any goodwill or a loan car is down to the individual dealers if the car is out of warranty and often depends on having a full Mercedes service history.
Other manufacturers are also available with similar issues.
I think there has also been a class action against Mercedes over the water re the issues. Our friends over there love a class action.
If you do get one be very cautious also re the software recall as a result of the cheat device scandal.
Many reports of running issues after the updates, again all well documented online.
darreni said:
If you need reliability, buy from a main dealer with a proper warranty. You’ll get their breakdown cover & loan car if things do go wrong. Parts issues won’t be your problem as you get a loan car if yours is off the road.
My experience is based on Merc/BMW/ Nissan.
You don't need to buy a car from a MB dealer to get the breakdown cover and loan car if things go wrong. My experience is based on Merc/BMW/ Nissan.
All of the following is available provided the car is serviced at MB after the first 3 years. This cover then renews for another 12 months.
Our support teams are available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year across both the UK and Europe.
• We can recover your car to a Mercedes-Benz Authorised Repairer within 30 miles from the breakdown.
• Cover automatically transfers to new owners.
• If your car needs to be recovered into a Mercedes-Benz Authorised Repairer, we can provide you with a replacement for up to 3 working days (excluding Accident Assistance).
• Our Customer Assistance Centre are on hand to discuss any incidental costs that might arise from stopping your journey early, such as hotels and onward travel.
• Before you get your car back, we’ll provide a complimentary Visual Health Check, to make sure everything is in order.
Source: https://www.mercedes-benz.co.uk/passengercars/serv...
Really interesting read as I was considering one of these or the 250 next year as they are ULEZ compliant from a 62/13 reg.
I know you can read the bad about any car online but the adblue pump one is quite scary as are the back order sensors.
Is the Euro 6 3 litre V6 diesel in VAG group cars a better bet?.
I know you can read the bad about any car online but the adblue pump one is quite scary as are the back order sensors.
Is the Euro 6 3 litre V6 diesel in VAG group cars a better bet?.
Walter Sobchak said:
Really interesting read as I was considering one of these or the 250 next year as they are ULEZ compliant from a 62/13 reg.
I know you can read the bad about any car online but the adblue pump one is quite scary as are the back order sensors.
Is the Euro 6 3 litre V6 diesel in VAG group cars a better bet?.
I just pulled the trigger on the 2013 ML350 Bluetec. I would not go for the 250 one, engine way too weak to pull this heavy beast. Regarding the adblue pump I think the problem is that Mercedes wants to sell you the entire tank for a rip off price. I don't know if this is 100%, but I found a replacement pump made by Bosch that doesn't break the bank: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-electric...I know you can read the bad about any car online but the adblue pump one is quite scary as are the back order sensors.
Is the Euro 6 3 litre V6 diesel in VAG group cars a better bet?.
I too was considering the 2012-2013 Q7 diesel that was supposed to be ULEZ compliant, but after running a couple of plates (just to be sure) on the TFL website it came back as negative.
RockDriver said:
I just pulled the trigger on the 2013 ML350 Bluetec. I would not go for the 250 one, engine way too weak to pull this heavy beast. Regarding the adblue pump I think the problem is that Mercedes wants to sell you the entire tank for a rip off price. I don't know if this is 100%, but I found a replacement pump made by Bosch that doesn't break the bank: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-electric...
I too was considering the 2012-2013 Q7 diesel that was supposed to be ULEZ compliant, but after running a couple of plates (just to be sure) on the TFL website it came back as negative.
Weirdly I’d be looking at the A7 rather than the Q7 as need to get a ULEZ compliant car by August and do a 75 mile round trip commute daily so a petrol isn’t really a viable option, I also want to be doing it in a comfortable and nice car to drive, how have you found the ML so far?, they’re certainly pretty good value but at the same time I already have a 4x4 in the form of an old Landcruiser for off road and towing etc so don’t necessarily need an SUV and do really like the A7 but the Bluetec ML is a good bit cheaper to buy than a Euro 6 A7 and I’m going to end up putting a lot of miles on it.I too was considering the 2012-2013 Q7 diesel that was supposed to be ULEZ compliant, but after running a couple of plates (just to be sure) on the TFL website it came back as negative.
I know what you mean about the 250,personally I’d prefer the 350 as well but the 250 does seem to get pretty decent economy.
Walter Sobchak said:
Weirdly I’d be looking at the A7 rather than the Q7 as need to get a ULEZ compliant car by August and do a 75 mile round trip commute daily so a petrol isn’t really a viable option, I also want to be doing it in a comfortable and nice car to drive, how have you found the ML so far?, they’re certainly pretty good value but at the same time I already have a 4x4 in the form of an old Landcruiser for off road and towing etc so don’t necessarily need an SUV and do really like the A7 but the Bluetec ML is a good bit cheaper to buy than a Euro 6 A7 and I’m going to end up putting a lot of miles on it.
I know what you mean about the 250,personally I’d prefer the 350 as well but the 250 does seem to get pretty decent economy.
Not sure how much you want to spend but all of these below are ULEZ/CAZ compliant loaded with kit & all will eat big miles with ease BUT the looks aren't the best. No adblue needed either.I know what you mean about the 250,personally I’d prefer the 350 as well but the 250 does seem to get pretty decent economy.
Infiniti M30d:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225219281052?hash=item3...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209300...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234424920836?hash=item3...
EX30d:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212162...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210200...
QX50 (facelift version of the above):
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211302...
FX30d:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211131...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208158...
QX70 (facelift version of the above but with cheaper RFL)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207288...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212072...
Walter Sobchak said:
Weirdly I’d be looking at the A7 rather than the Q7 as need to get a ULEZ compliant car by August and do a 75 mile round trip commute daily so a petrol isn’t really a viable option, I also want to be doing it in a comfortable and nice car to drive, how have you found the ML so far?, they’re certainly pretty good value but at the same time I already have a 4x4 in the form of an old Landcruiser for off road and towing etc so don’t necessarily need an SUV and do really like the A7 but the Bluetec ML is a good bit cheaper to buy than a Euro 6 A7 and I’m going to end up putting a lot of miles on it.
I know what you mean about the 250,personally I’d prefer the 350 as well but the 250 does seem to get pretty decent economy.
This is not my first ML, long time ago I had the first gen petrol V8, still my favorite to this day. The 350 drives as I would expect with that classic Mercedes floating feeling and I did miss that typical small Mercedes turning radius - makes it a breeze parking and navigating London's tight underground structures. This generation MLs are "cheap" because they are very basic - just about everything is extra. I wanted to get one with xenon headlights but they are about as common as unicorns. They should have been standard by now. When I was driving it back yesterday night I had to check if my halogen lights were on - that's how ѕhit they seemed after my X5's xenons. Really pissed about that and looking for a HID conversion now. Though mine does have a few perks like full leather, mirror package, proximity alert (if that's not standard). Trust me that the 250 is going to absolutely suck, because you still need to move the same mass while straining it and getting no performance out of that puny 2.1L. Regarding economy the 350 is already very good, there's not gonna be much difference. Impressive towing weight of 3500 kg too - more than your Land Cruiser. The 3rd gen ML can't do squat off road, unlike my first gen one which was first and last ML with body on frame and had differential locking (as standard, I think).I know what you mean about the 250,personally I’d prefer the 350 as well but the 250 does seem to get pretty decent economy.
Edited by RockDriver on Saturday 17th December 18:03
Edited by RockDriver on Saturday 17th December 18:05
Joined PH yesterday and happened to see this so thought I’d post. Bought ml350:in lockdown 62 plate, 2013 at 38.5k. Standard plus leather. Was offloaded by Mercedes dealer via another local garage. First drive and engine lights on for the nox sensor but merc did the replacement for free as had full service history Since then only done 12k
Love it and I’ve a few nice cars..comfy like an old sofa and handles about the same in corners (not air susp). Just spent 450 fitted at an Indy on a new drivers door lock which became intermittent, urghhh…
Then 650 on new Michelin cross climates, Fine.. it was v good in stee hills in the snow last week. Last week spent 100 on a new auxiliary battery… but it’d been on trickle charge for couple of months and that of course only manages the main battery. Had a scare with the pretentioning on the pax seatbelt - but cleared the faults on a decent fault reader and trickle charged the battery and all was well. Other than that have paid for proper service each year (had it 3). Does 30-35 max mph depending on how driven. The ave for the 12k is 30.7 according to the dash. Oh also added tow bar 7pin for bike rack which wasn’t much. All in view - not especially cheap driving, but with GLEs costing silly money for what they are it’s fine. Local Indy reckons good for 100-120k but should expect some bills now as almost 10 years old. I paid 16k I think with a years (RAC) warranty.. it was prob worth 14k last year at ‘peak gouging’. No idea now .. WBAC maybe 11? 12?
Love it and I’ve a few nice cars..comfy like an old sofa and handles about the same in corners (not air susp). Just spent 450 fitted at an Indy on a new drivers door lock which became intermittent, urghhh…
Then 650 on new Michelin cross climates, Fine.. it was v good in stee hills in the snow last week. Last week spent 100 on a new auxiliary battery… but it’d been on trickle charge for couple of months and that of course only manages the main battery. Had a scare with the pretentioning on the pax seatbelt - but cleared the faults on a decent fault reader and trickle charged the battery and all was well. Other than that have paid for proper service each year (had it 3). Does 30-35 max mph depending on how driven. The ave for the 12k is 30.7 according to the dash. Oh also added tow bar 7pin for bike rack which wasn’t much. All in view - not especially cheap driving, but with GLEs costing silly money for what they are it’s fine. Local Indy reckons good for 100-120k but should expect some bills now as almost 10 years old. I paid 16k I think with a years (RAC) warranty.. it was prob worth 14k last year at ‘peak gouging’. No idea now .. WBAC maybe 11? 12?
Edited by weeve on Saturday 17th December 18:21
Edited by weeve on Saturday 17th December 18:22
Edited by weeve on Saturday 17th December 18:23
weeve said:
Joined PH yesterday and happened to see this so thought I’d post. Bought ml350:in lockdown 62 plate, 2013 at 38.5k. Standard plus leather. Was offloaded by Mercedes dealer via another local garage. First drive and engine lights on for the nox sensor but merc did the replacement for free as had full service history Since then only done 12k
Love it and I’ve a few nice cars..comfy like an old sofa and handles about the same in corners (not air susp). Just spent 450 fitted at an Indy on a new drivers door lock which became intermittent, urghhh…
Then 650 on new Michelin cross climates, Fine.. it was v good in stee hills in the snow last week. Last week spent 100 on a new auxiliary battery… but it’d been on trickle charge for couple of months and that of course only manages the main battery. Had a scare with the pretentioning on the pax seatbelt - but cleared the faults on a decent fault reader and trickle charged the battery and all was well. Other than that have paid for proper service each year (had it 3). Does 30-35 max mph depending on how driven. The ave for the 12k is 30.7 according to the dash. Oh also added tow bar 7pin for bike rack which wasn’t much. All in view - not especially cheap driving, but with GLEs costing silly money for what they are it’s fine. Local Indy reckons good for 100-120k but should expect some bills now as almost 10 years old. I paid 16k I think with a years (RAC) warranty.. it was prob worth 14k last year at ‘peak gouging’. No idea now .. WBAC maybe 11? 12?
Well looks like you got a great deal. Right now they are way more expensive because of ULEZ bs and you can forget about low mileage. There were a couple 80K mileage options that i had to pass on for various reasons (such as dealer taking up to 2 weeks to "prepare" the car. WTF? Is it disassembled or something?). So mine is at 100K mileage and I paid 13700 for it yesterday. Full service history, 2 owners, squeaky clean oil cooler and engine sump. Of course knowing my luck something should explode sooner rather than later. After my X5, lack of HIDs is eating away at me now, so I'm exploring all options.Love it and I’ve a few nice cars..comfy like an old sofa and handles about the same in corners (not air susp). Just spent 450 fitted at an Indy on a new drivers door lock which became intermittent, urghhh…
Then 650 on new Michelin cross climates, Fine.. it was v good in stee hills in the snow last week. Last week spent 100 on a new auxiliary battery… but it’d been on trickle charge for couple of months and that of course only manages the main battery. Had a scare with the pretentioning on the pax seatbelt - but cleared the faults on a decent fault reader and trickle charged the battery and all was well. Other than that have paid for proper service each year (had it 3). Does 30-35 max mph depending on how driven. The ave for the 12k is 30.7 according to the dash. Oh also added tow bar 7pin for bike rack which wasn’t much. All in view - not especially cheap driving, but with GLEs costing silly money for what they are it’s fine. Local Indy reckons good for 100-120k but should expect some bills now as almost 10 years old. I paid 16k I think with a years (RAC) warranty.. it was prob worth 14k last year at ‘peak gouging’. No idea now .. WBAC maybe 11? 12?
Edited by weeve on Saturday 17th December 18:21
Edited by weeve on Saturday 17th December 18:22
Edited by weeve on Saturday 17th December 18:23
Also, small world - just booked mine for a new set of Michelin CrossClimate 2 SUV which are supposed to be the best all seasons ever made.
Deal now perhaps - but in comparison with my covid loses it’s a very hollow victory;) At the time it was literally only car I could get delivered to my house one day after full lockdown mk1 - as some old boy of a delivery driver was dropping off medical supplies and used punters cars for the ride. Ingenious frankly. Came from 350 miles away. I’d been evacuated from work ‘000s of miles away overseas to arrive in an empty nomansland UK airport with my wife and kids and literally had to beg a taxi company to get us and our 120kg of bags … so would have bought anything 4wd needed for where we ‘lived and this ‘appeared’ on the deserted streets for the permitted food run a day later. Was good enough to keep as it happens and I’ll run it until the first £3000+ a year bills. Every time I get it I’m pleased not to see an engine light mind. Hardly stress free.
Edited by weeve on Monday 19th December 18:07
weeve said:
Deal now perhaps - but in comparison with my covid loses it’s a very hollow victory;) At the time it was literally only car I could get delivered to my house one day after full lockdown mk1 - as some old boy of a delivery driver was dropping off medical supplies and used punters cars for the ride. Ingenious frankly. Came from 350 miles away. I’d been evacuated from work ‘000s of miles away overseas to arrive in an empty nomansland UK airport with my wife and kids and literally had to beg a taxi company to get us and our 120kg of bags … so would have bought anything 4wd needed for where we ‘lived and this ‘appeared’ on the deserted streets for the permitted food run a day later. Was good enough to keep as it happens and I’ll run it until the first £3000+ a year bills. Every time I get it I’m pleased not to see an engine light mind. Hardly stress free.
Is yours petrol or diesel? Mine is diesel and another forum gave me a healthy dose of adblue paranoia. So today I ended up chasing down this substance called "exhaust crystal preventer" (by Forte) and booked the car to replace the adblue liquid also adding this additive. That should in theory prevent adblue issues that are apparently often caused by crystalisation.Edited by weeve on Monday 19th December 18:07
If it's a petrol that would explain lower mileage. Diesels always have higher mileage on average.
Diesel ml350 bluetec. And Day 1 the need for a new NOx sensor…. I just get the adblue topped at the annual service and dont do any preventative stuff except the basics. Every day it doesn’t break is a gift .., but we use public transport when possible and just use it for x country motorway journeys and bad weather, (or when folks on strike …)
Edited by weeve on Tuesday 20th December 18:43
RockDriver said:
This is not my first ML, long time ago I had the first gen petrol V8, still my favorite to this day. The 350 drives as I would expect with that classic Mercedes floating feeling and I did miss that typical small Mercedes turning radius - makes it a breeze parking and navigating London's tight underground structures. This generation MLs are "cheap" because they are very basic - just about everything is extra. I wanted to get one with xenon headlights but they are about as common as unicorns. They should have been standard by now. When I was driving it back yesterday night I had to check if my halogen lights were on - that's how ?hit they seemed after my X5's xenons. Really pissed about that and looking for a HID conversion now. Though mine does have a few perks like full leather, mirror package, proximity alert (if that's not standard). Trust me that the 250 is going to absolutely suck, because you still need to move the same mass while straining it and getting no performance out of that puny 2.1L. Regarding economy the 350 is already very good, there's not gonna be much difference. Impressive towing weight of 3500 kg too - more than your Land Cruiser. The 3rd gen ML can't do squat off road, unlike my first gen one which was first and last ML with body on frame and had differential locking (as standard, I think).
Yeah I was thinking that about the spec of them actually, I saw one the other evening with non HID headlights and thought, really?!, I’ve somewhat gone off the idea of the 250 engine after going in a friends E Class estate with it recently, sod that pulling a big ML around!, going to be a 350 if I decide on one!, towing wise my LC is rated at 3500kgs too IIRC as it’s the full size Amazon one not the smaller Prado,I’d bet on it pulling an artic in low range!.Edited by RockDriver on Saturday 17th December 18:03
Edited by RockDriver on Saturday 17th December 18:05
I’d not be too worried about the MLs off road ability, more was looking for comfort, some space particularly boot wise and economy/reliability than anything else, hope yours serves you well btw.
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