What Estate?

[drummerian]

Good morning all, happy boxing day!

Almost 8 years ago I posted a 'what car' thread on pistonheads and as a result was turned on the the Saab 9-5 Aero estate, a car I may not have otherwise even considered an option!.... (so thanks very much PH community"!)
Note: my previous "what car" started with a similar sentance but replace 9-5 with Alfa 156, another fantastic car owning experience!

The 9-5 I ended up with was a 52 plate, £900, Manuel, Aero Estate and it hasn't really skipped a beat. I've done the obligatory PCV update/sump strainer clean, replaced some headlight auto levelling sensors and a few little bits but overall it's really not cost me anything over my 8 years of ownership. Sadly though, rust is eating away at the sills and whilst I could weld these myself I feel it may be time to move on to something a little newer. The old girl really doesn't owe me anything at this point and I'm sure in manual guise may make some other enthusiast happy.

My partner is currently running an R171 SLK 1.8, it's been a fantastic car as well but I think we are ready to move down to a single car shared between us. We currently only put around 3000-4000miles on to each vehicle due to living close to town and using bikes for most shorter trips. Having a single car between us will reduce tax, insurance and my time invested in to just kepeing on top of little maintainance jobs and bigger repairs. Likely to end up with ~10k miles a year. My partner doing a majority of the mileage on a ~8mile commute to work a few days a week.

Here's some loose requirements:

• Estate is a must, the praticality of the 9-5 has been insane (so I guess a big estate 5series>3series), I have also to be fair loved having something I don't have to care about too much due to the cost of the car!
• Automatic - A good one if possible! But I'm lazier when it comes to driving than I was when I got hte 9-5 and my partner struggles with a clutch following a ankle injury.
• Budget - a super tricky one for me here. I have previously only ever spent shed money. Much as our cars have never let us down in a major way it would be nice to spend a little more this time round to 'feel' that we may be getting something that will last and give confidence. Both of us are automotive engineers and I am super aware as a result that newer doesn't equal more reliable. As a result I was considering £10-15k, equally, I could happily pay less if there isn't real reason to pay more for features/kerb appeal I don't feel I need.
• Petrol/Diesel/PHEV - I've always hated the idea of new PHEVs, it feels like a complexity step we don't need, however, I see there may be a few 2nd hand bargains to be had so perhaps I need to open my eyes on those. Diesel I'm always wary of things like DPF's and DMF's - but....£30 a year tax is tempting after spending out higher tax rates on the saab/merc. Basically I'm open to ideas!
• Performance - I care less about this these days and often attempt to get the Saab to 40MPG+ on a run with some gentle right footing. However, I may miss the performance if we go full on family spec...

And here's some ideas I've had/seen from lurking on the forums, would love to know if there's anything I've missed:

• Skoda Superb
• Insignia
• Mazda 6
• Peugeot 508
• Volvo (something) - I love the Saab, so rugged, quiet, practical. It really speaks to my inner engineer and I wonder if the Volvo offerings would be the same
• MG5 EV - bare with me here. If I were doing 2 times the miles this would likely be my choice. Value for money is high on my priorities and these seem hard to beat in the EV world. I work in EV technology and it's certainly the way we will go for the next car. However, at 10k miles a year (or less) I feel that spending 25k-35k on an EV may be a mistake at this point. Even if I charged for free via our solar setup, or at work, I'm not sure our saved fuel costs would really offset the depreciation.

As mentioned above, the collective PH brain trust has helped me so much with previous purchases, any help with this one is super appreciated. I realise the above is a proper brain dump partly just to collect my own thoughts!
Thanks all,
Ian

[Bobupndown]

If I was buying an estate car tomorrow it would be a Superb 190 tdi 4x4.
Rural living and a caravan to tow make the 4x4 a necessity.
Currently driving a Freelander 2 190hp Sd4 4x4. Sadly modern offerings from landrover are less reliable and I don't see myself buying a Discovery Sport which would have been the natural replacement for the Freelander.

[georgeyboy12345]

If you go for the Superb it'll have the DSG box, so you might want to rule that out. I find them ok, but they are not really considered a "good" transmission. I think some of the Geartronic autos found in Volvos were not very good, but them some were ok, you'll have to do more research on them. I think the lower powered Peugeot 508s had automated manual transmissions, but the more powerful variants (150 bhp+) had proper autoboxes on them. The Insignia and Mazda 6 both have proper automatic gearboxes as far as i know.

Here's another couple of ideas

Mercedes E250
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212122...


Kia Optima 2.0h GDi PHEV
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211031...

[Mr E]

I went 156 wagon > 95 aero estate > e-class estate.

My 500 was all the car anyone could realistically need. If you can find one.

[boyse7en]

I had an Alfa 166, moved on to a Saab 9-5 aero, and then went on to a Honda Accord estate.

[dunc69]

georgeyboy12345 said:

If you go for the Superb it'll have the DSG box, so you might want to rule that out. I find them ok, but they are not really considered a "good" transmission. I think some of the Geartronic autos found in Volvos were not very good, but them some were ok, you'll have to do more research on them. I think the lower powered Peugeot 508s had automated manual transmissions, but the more powerful variants (150 bhp+) had proper autoboxes on them. The Insignia and Mazda 6 both have proper automatic gearboxes as far as i know.

Can’t agree on the DSG ‘boxes. I have had several and never had an issue. The older ones were a little jerky at parking speeds, but you soon learn to drive round that. The newer ones, e.g. the 7-speed wet on my Superb, are extremely smooth at parking speeds, as good as the 7-speed ZF in my recent 5 series.

All DSG ‘boxes are lightening quick once the car is up to speed with changes being virtually imperceptible.

[Mansilla]

Not sure why you would avoid DSG. I'm on my 4th; never had a problem. Just keep on top of the oil changes.

Either a Superb, a Passat or an Arteon (if you can live with a hatch, or stretch to the much newer estates) with 4wd and either the 190 or 240 diesel. There are also some 280 petrols around, suspect you will find more Superbs. I think all the 280 Passats were a special edition with a rather un-Passat set of details - lots of gloss black trim. No thanks. I have a 240 Passat. I get 45mpg and have seen 60 on long, steady runs, but its still reasonably powerful and has surprising torque. Great all rounder.

[dunc69]

Mansilla said:

Not sure why you would avoid DSG. I'm on my 4th; never had a problem. Just keep on top of the oil changes.

Either a Superb, a Passat or an Arteon (if you can live with a hatch, or stretch to the much newer estates) with 4wd and either the 190 or 240 diesel. There are also some 280 petrols around, suspect you will find more Superbs. I think all the 280 Passats were a special edition with a rather un-Passat set of details - lots of gloss black trim. No thanks. I have a 240 Passat. I get 45mpg and have seen 60 on long, steady runs, but its still reasonably powerful and has surprising torque. Great all rounder.

Agree. I have a 272 AWD Superb. All rounder too. Just a great car.

[LudaMusser]

I’ve had two VAG DSG autos and both developed the DMF rattle around the 80-100k mark

Both were lovely cars but bare that in mind as it’s not a cheap fix. I had one replaced but sold the other before it got any worse, super smooth gearbox though

[ZX10R NIN]

Insignia Elite Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212192...

SRI VX LIne Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...

SRI Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212162...

508 GT both this & the Insignia above have conventional autos:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212232...

[drummerian]

ZX10R NIN said:

Insignia Elite Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212192...

SRI VX LIne Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...

SRI Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212162...

508 GT both this & the Insignia above have conventional autos:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212232...

Thanks all for the replies so far, certainly some bits to think about. Amazing that a few posters have had similar car buying journeys to myself!

Thanks for the links ZX, I did wonder when you may pop up!

One worry that I have is that I'll be going from a (admittedly very old!) fairly high end car (9-5 aero was Saabs flagship?) with a high initial retail price, in to something like you suggest above (508 / insignia). Am I going to be annoyed by extra cabin noise / less nice door closing etc?

[drummerian]

georgeyboy12345 said:

If you go for the Superb it'll have the DSG box, so you might want to rule that out. I find them ok, but they are not really considered a "good" transmission. I think some of the Geartronic autos found in Volvos were not very good, but them some were ok, you'll have to do more research on them. I think the lower powered Peugeot 508s had automated manual transmissions, but the more powerful variants (150 bhp+) had proper autoboxes on them. The Insignia and Mazda 6 both have proper automatic gearboxes as far as i know.

Here's another couple of ideas

Mercedes E250
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212122...


Kia Optima 2.0h GDi PHEV
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211031...

Thanks, the PHEV is certainly an interesting one that I wasn't really aware of and would need to do a lot of confidence inspiring reading before comitting!

[drummerian]

Mansilla said:

Not sure why you would avoid DSG. I'm on my 4th; never had a problem. Just keep on top of the oil changes.

Either a Superb, a Passat or an Arteon (if you can live with a hatch, or stretch to the much newer estates) with 4wd and either the 190 or 240 diesel. There are also some 280 petrols around, suspect you will find more Superbs. I think all the 280 Passats were a special edition with a rather un-Passat set of details - lots of gloss black trim. No thanks. I have a 240 Passat. I get 45mpg and have seen 60 on long, steady runs, but its still reasonably powerful and has surprising torque. Great all rounder.

Any reason you mention the 4wd? I feel I don't need it for my use case and wouldn't want to take the hit on MPG or complexity. Just curious since others have mentioned the 4wd options also! Thanks

[ZX10R NIN]

drummerian said:

Thanks all for the replies so far, certainly some bits to think about. Amazing that a few posters have had similar car buying journeys to myself!

Thanks for the links ZX, I did wonder when you may pop up!

One worry that I have is that I'll be going from a (admittedly very old!) fairly high end car (9-5 aero was Saabs flagship?) with a high initial retail price, in to something like you suggest above (508 / insignia). Am I going to be annoyed by extra cabin noise / less nice door closing etc?

I haven't driven a 9-5 recently so can't properly compare but the 508 GT & Elite Nav are top spec & the NVH levels are good in both.

If you can find similar models locally I'd say try them for size.

[Mansilla]

drummerian said:

Any reason you mention the 4wd? I feel I don't need it for my use case and wouldn't want to take the hit on MPG or complexity. Just curious since others have mentioned the 4wd options also! Thanks

The actual reason I got a 4wd was to tow with it, but its proved pretty much unstoppable and I doubt I'd go back. Its super stable in all conditions, wet weather / snow / ice don't make a significant difference to it, it can cruise through mud and over wet fields, and it also means that it puts power down with no effort at all. As for an MPG hit, I'm not clear that there is much of one really. 45+mpg seems pretty good to me.

[Brum_Brum]

Timely thread for me as I am also looking for an estate within the same price range. Although has to be petrol due to frequency of short journeys.
Ideal car would be a Octavia/Superb 2.0 Tsi. 2.0 ecoboost Mondeo's also keep catching my eye (esp the 240 titanium) , any thoughts on these?

C and E class also cropping up on the radar with the 1.8 GDi.

I guess I should also drive some of the lower capacity estates as I still struggle to get my head around a 1.4/1.5 in something like a Superb/Insignia

[drummerian]

Brum_Brum said:

Timely thread for me as I am also looking for an estate within the same price range. Although has to be petrol due to frequency of short journeys.
Ideal car would be a Octavia/Superb 2.0 Tsi. 2.0 ecoboost Mondeo's also keep catching my eye (esp the 240 titanium) , any thoughts on these?

C and E class also cropping up on the radar with the 1.8 GDi.

I guess I should also drive some of the lower capacity estates as I still struggle to get my head around a 1.4/1.5 in something like a Superb/Insignia

Nice! Let me know what you end up with! I think i'm limiting my choices a bit with the automatic requriement, do you have a similar restriction?

[Brum_Brum]

drummerian said:

Nice! Let me know what you end up with! I think i'm limiting my choices a bit with the automatic requriement, do you have a similar restriction?

I don't mind an auto or a manual. Was chatting to the guy at the local garage on New Years eve, he was scaring me with DSG rebuild stories ,... yet there must be thousands out there with no issues.

[ZX10R NIN]

Brum_Brum said:

Timely thread for me as I am also looking for an estate within the same price range. Although has to be petrol due to frequency of short journeys.
Ideal car would be a Octavia/Superb 2.0 Tsi. 2.0 ecoboost Mondeo's also keep catching my eye (esp the 240 titanium) , any thoughts on these?

C and E class also cropping up on the radar with the 1.8 GDi.

I guess I should also drive some of the lower capacity estates as I still struggle to get my head around a 1.4/1.5 in something like a Superb/Insignia

IMO the Mondeo is better than both of the VAG options they drive better & have better NVH levels too.

[HocusPocus]

MB 250cdi estate if you need a bigger car, or a Mk7 VW Golf estate if slightly smaller will do.