Why EVs just don’t make sense right now
Discussion
Say you need a new car. Family car. Mid-size crossover.
You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
Unless you're doing ridiculous mileages or making massive BIK savings an EV is more expensive to run vs a like for like diesel or even petrol model due to the hefty additional purchase price cost (and more so due to the cost of servicing the "debt").
It's even worse if you *can't* charge at home for cheap or free.
I'd love one as a "town" car for the many shorter trips round town (school runs etc) but there are no savings to be made even vs a petrol car that does (on the school run) mid teens mpg at best!
It's even worse if you *can't* charge at home for cheap or free.
I'd love one as a "town" car for the many shorter trips round town (school runs etc) but there are no savings to be made even vs a petrol car that does (on the school run) mid teens mpg at best!
And most PCP’s will be based on the depreciation from new price to end of lease… so if the RV is higher on the EV at 3/4/5 years, the monthly payments might actually be much closer than you think. And if bought cash again the RV at point of sale is likely to be much higher.
As said already, any company car driver would be remiss not to switch to an EV right now unless they either (a) can’t charge at home or (b) do intergalactic mileage
As said already, any company car driver would be remiss not to switch to an EV right now unless they either (a) can’t charge at home or (b) do intergalactic mileage
A lot of sales (not all) will be on mass businesses, offering a car to employees on a company car scheme, whereby the BIK plays a part. This will change in 2025. A BEV has more incentives over an ICE vehicle as things stand.
Residuals play a part too, see next paragraph.
“Petrol getting cheaper” - there's a 23% hike in fuel duty coming within the next few months. This may deter people going ICE for their next vehicle, however;
I cannot see electricity prices coming down much either so we'll all be shafted – I have no skin in this game, nor any preference to the drivetrain of vehicles. You do you is my attitude, genuinely.
As for the overall cost of the car – I can only assume it costs a lot more to manufacture and build a BEV over an ICE vehicle. It certainly was years ago when I worked in that sector (I've since moved on) so;
As for price difference between similar models where a BEV and ICE offering are available – yes its apparent and tangible. I think this has been the case since the push towards BEV. The BEV cars have been more expensive in general.
When petrol/diesel is banned – well the new sales of such vehicles are banned from 2030, but there will still be hundreds of thousands, if not millions still road worthy and in use beyond that time, so to ask if a 2023 humdrum BEV will remain obscenely expensive beyond 2030 or 2035 (when hybrids are no longer allowed to be sold too) requires a crystal ball in my opinion. We maybe all forced off the road by that point.
Residuals play a part too, see next paragraph.
“Petrol getting cheaper” - there's a 23% hike in fuel duty coming within the next few months. This may deter people going ICE for their next vehicle, however;
I cannot see electricity prices coming down much either so we'll all be shafted – I have no skin in this game, nor any preference to the drivetrain of vehicles. You do you is my attitude, genuinely.
As for the overall cost of the car – I can only assume it costs a lot more to manufacture and build a BEV over an ICE vehicle. It certainly was years ago when I worked in that sector (I've since moved on) so;
As for price difference between similar models where a BEV and ICE offering are available – yes its apparent and tangible. I think this has been the case since the push towards BEV. The BEV cars have been more expensive in general.
When petrol/diesel is banned – well the new sales of such vehicles are banned from 2030, but there will still be hundreds of thousands, if not millions still road worthy and in use beyond that time, so to ask if a 2023 humdrum BEV will remain obscenely expensive beyond 2030 or 2035 (when hybrids are no longer allowed to be sold too) requires a crystal ball in my opinion. We maybe all forced off the road by that point.
AudiMan9000 said:
Say you need a new car. Family car. Mid-size crossover.
You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
Why are you bothering with the list prices, the last time anyone paid cash for a new car in the UK was probably 1973.You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
Compare monthly post-tax costs and it's a completely different story.
EVs right now are a luxury , aside from the cost you the countries charging infra is not up to long distance trips .
We already have issues finding a charger where we need to charge away from home and I’d bet more EVs will hit roads than charging capacity over next few years so it will get worse first
We already have issues finding a charger where we need to charge away from home and I’d bet more EVs will hit roads than charging capacity over next few years so it will get worse first
AudiMan9000 said:
Say you need a new car. Family car. Mid-size crossover.
You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
How do you justify an expensive PCP over a used car and a bank loan? I could buy many cars for the cost of your example ICE car. You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
Point being if you can justify paying more to drive a new car every few years it isn’t much of a leap to do so at a higher price point.
king times are we going to see these threads every week?AudiMan9000 said:
Say you need a new car. Family car. Mid-size crossover.
You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
Comprable X3 is a 30D (same power) M-Sport - actual price £55k. Then on the iX3 you get for free:You walk into a BMW showroom.
X3 = £44,660
iX3 = £61,960
So the electric version of basically the same car costs £17,300 more.
How on earth can your average consumer justify paying so much more for essentially the same product?!
It would take many years to make back the difference through fuel savings, especially with petrol getting cheaper and electricity getting more expensive.
Same for Mercedes…
GLC = £51,855
EQC = £72,335
Price difference = a mere £20,480. You could literally buy an extra car with that money.
When petrols are banned, are humdrum family crossovers going to remain this obscenely expensive?
- Comfort Plus Pack (£1950) - keyless entry, lumbar support and full electric memory seats, heated steering wheel, movable rear seat, extended storage
- Technology Plus Pack (£3650) - Enhanced Bluetooth® + Wireless Charging, Gesture Control, Driving Assistant Pro (Adaptive Cruise, Blind Spot Monitoring)
- Panoramic Glass Sunroof (£1190)
- Sun protection glass (£320)
- Galvanic Controls (£130)
- Leather Dashboard (£500)
- Metallic Paint (£695)
- Adaptive Suspension (circa £1000)
Which entirely accounts for the remaining £9k. The reason this stuff isn't standard on the X3 - it bumps up the CO2 and adds a load of weight. Not an issue on an EV. Buy the iX3 - fully loaded car, cheaper to fuel and cheaper to run. Simple really once you spend 10 mins in the detail.... definitely not "essentially the same product"
D4rez said:
Comprable X3 is a 30D (same power) M-Sport - actual price £55k. Then on the iX3 you get for free:
- Comfort Plus Pack (£1950) - keyless entry, lumbar support and full electric memory seats, heated steering wheel, movable rear seat, extended storage
- Technology Plus Pack (£3650) - Enhanced Bluetooth® + Wireless Charging, Gesture Control, Driving Assistant Pro (Adaptive Cruise, Blind Spot Monitoring)
- Panoramic Glass Sunroof (£1190)
- Sun protection glass (£320)
- Galvanic Controls (£130)
- Leather Dashboard (£500)
- Metallic Paint (£695)
- Adaptive Suspension (circa £1000)
Which entirely accounts for the remaining £9k. The reason this stuff isn't standard on the X3 - it bumps up the CO2 and adds a load of weight. Not an issue on an EV. Buy the iX3 - fully loaded car, cheaper to fuel and cheaper to run. Simple really once you spend 10 mins in the detail.... definitely not "essentially the same product"
Sounds like there is a bmw sales person on this thread justifying the ridiculous pricing on these pig ugly motors.- Comfort Plus Pack (£1950) - keyless entry, lumbar support and full electric memory seats, heated steering wheel, movable rear seat, extended storage
- Technology Plus Pack (£3650) - Enhanced Bluetooth® + Wireless Charging, Gesture Control, Driving Assistant Pro (Adaptive Cruise, Blind Spot Monitoring)
- Panoramic Glass Sunroof (£1190)
- Sun protection glass (£320)
- Galvanic Controls (£130)
- Leather Dashboard (£500)
- Metallic Paint (£695)
- Adaptive Suspension (circa £1000)
Which entirely accounts for the remaining £9k. The reason this stuff isn't standard on the X3 - it bumps up the CO2 and adds a load of weight. Not an issue on an EV. Buy the iX3 - fully loaded car, cheaper to fuel and cheaper to run. Simple really once you spend 10 mins in the detail.... definitely not "essentially the same product"
rallycross said:
Sounds like there is a bmw sales person on this thread justifying the ridiculous pricing on these pig ugly motors.
I doubt many people pay bmw list anyway, so all in all a pointless exercise. The less popular the model the more crazy the discount, having a brief nose now bmw are not doing anything on full electric cars, but are on ICE models.Again whilst I appreciate some views in this thread, the fuel duty rise might only happen in March this year, it is not confirmed either way so saying it is is completely unfair.
When I did look at 2 specific EV's in comparison with the ICE vehicle I did eventually go for then the finance deals left a clear gap that was hundreds of £. I appreciate some could be made back in fuel savings, but ultimately other areas and the fact I felt uncomfortable as our only car having an EV.
I get the whole EV thing, but for specific use cases they simply don't work and the amount of owners I do know with a second car for longer journeys is staggering. I accept there is total EV households, but they do appear a minority.
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