is there such a car conundrum?

[R2Detour]

I decided to keep my M3 and have been daily driving it for just under 4k happy motoring. But, its definitely time for a change.

I'm lucky enough to be going on several road trips this year, a number being around the NC500 (x2) and to the Nurburgring (x1).

The company i'll be keeping will be - Lancia Integrale, 997.1 c2s, Aston Martin Vantage S, as well as a number of other fast classics and sports cars.

The car I need will have to contend, keep up with (and hopefully) shock a few people on those journeys. it needs to be able to do 1000's of miles relatively comfortably, hop onto a race track like the ring and set a decent time alongside some very good company, drive all the way back, come home, go up to scotland, handle the roads and potholes the UK has to offer.

It needs to have theatre, be fun, handle well, be as quick as an Integrale on a B-Road and as good round a track almost as a 997. With the ability to keep up with the rest at very high speeds through Europe - my friends tend not to hang about.

It also needs to seat up to 4 people about 60% of the time.

Is there such a car? The e93 is not up to the job, it needs to be rung out completely to feel any kind of fast and whilst that is fun and adds theatre, its also not really good on b-roads or on track being a vert and with the weight.

Am I banished to hot hatch territory do you think?

A saloon seems far too large and boring to be any good on many of the roads i'll be driving.

My budget is £30k.

[zippy3x]

My answer is the same as it was in July when you last asked

zippy3x said:

fflump said:

A decent Giulia QF is probably a bit out of budget..

Ahh, you're correct. I was so eager to spread the QV love, I failed to notice the two sub £35k cars were both Cat S.

OP - save more and get a Giulia QV

[Harveybw]

Whilst on B roads it wont quite match up to others, I feel a V8 Cerbera is just the ticket.

Stupid quick, full of theatre, sounds amazing and good fun on track. Will also surprise your mates for a 20+ year old car and pretty practical for road trips too.

Edit:
Forgot the 4 seat part you wrote...they do have four seats...sort of...kinda...

[Stupot123]

What about sticking with what you know, but a bit newer, an F80/F82 M3/4?

Or maybe a C63 of some sort.

[LeeM135i]

You might be able to get an early 205 C63 for that budget, personally would be looking at the coupe as they handle better than the saloon. You will love the noise!

A little over budget but looks good https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301183...

A few more miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211091...

[Silvanus]

Awd options would be Audi RS5 V8, Subaru WRX STi, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X and BMW M235I Gran Coupe.

Rear wheel drive would be the usual German coupes/saloons

[fflump]

Might be a little harsh travelling 1000s miles comfortably but the Nissan Gt-r 3.8 V6 4WD 2+2 has the ability to shock, track, and keep up on the twisties.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210110...

[Zilla]

fflump said:

Might be a little harsh travelling 1000s miles comfortably but the Nissan Gt-r 3.8 V6 4WD 2+2 has the ability to shock, track, and keep up on the twisties.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210110...

Was going to suggest this as an owner and regular on euro tours and nurburgring. Back seats are limited to children only though.

[keo]

Lotus Evora but might only seat 3.5!

[Pablo16v]

Stupot123 said:

What about sticking with what you know, but a bit newer, an F80/F82 M3/4?

Or maybe a C63 of some sort.

I was thinking C63 Coupe, or later C43 like this one.

https://www.autoselectcars.co.uk/vehicle/mercedes-...

[Zarco]

I think you already have what you want in the M3.

If you want to shock a few people get a Clio 182. Ticks all the boxes except seating four adults properly.

[R2Detour]

LeeM135i said:

You might be able to get an early 205 C63 for that budget, personally would be looking at the coupe as they handle better than the saloon. You will love the noise!

A little over budget but looks good https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301183...

A few more miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211091...

How are they to drive? I know the engine is thoroughly brutish but is the handling the same is it more muscle than it is pinpoint? I really like the w205 design and the interior is nice place to be . I enjoyed the same variant c250 saloon i had for a work horse for a while over summer last year.

[R2Detour]

Zarco said:

I think you already have what you want in the M3.

If you want to shock a few people get a Clio 182. Ticks all the boxes except seating four adults properly.

They are very hard cars to replace. I would say that mine, being an e93 rather than an e92, is not particularly suited to spirited driving. You can feel the weight of it being the vert.

In addition, the engine is glorious, but only at 6000rpm plus does it really start to feel fast. On the types of roads doing the driving and B & C-Roads in general you can't get up that far in between the twisties, so it can feel slow. Especially compared to a 911. It wouldn't know which way the 997 had gone.

The coupe, yes i can certainly see being a better contender but it still has the issue of the same engine and thus the same issue.

Sadly, I do not like the F80 or G80 M3's due to them being saloons. They aren't want i consider for what i need. Although both have 4 doors which ticks the passenger element box. But there it ends i think.

I've had a clio 182 cup. It was a fantastic car. Sadly always breaking down. That said, it can keep up in the twisties, if not outrun them slightly due to agility , weight, revvy engine, if you know what you are doing. However, on the autobahn and around Europe its going to struggle to keep up.

If i could mix something of the two, revvy, agile, bit of legroom and put it in a small ish body, coupe preferably. Ideal. That to me is almost a Cayman or Elise minus two seats and the Evora is much nearer 40k than 30k these days.

Perhaps I should just get a 911 and tell the kids to suffer the cramp.

I'm not sure much comes close.

[R2Detour]

Harveybw said:

Whilst on B roads it wont quite match up to others, I feel a V8 Cerbera is just the ticket.

Stupid quick, full of theatre, sounds amazing and good fun on track. Will also surprise your mates for a 20+ year old car and pretty practical for road trips too.

Edit:
Forgot the 4 seat part you wrote...they do have four seats...sort of...kinda...

I do want a Cerb at some point, its an itch that has to be scratched.

Maybe when i go back to having two cars in a couple of years when my children are learning/driving for themselves.

[Zarco]

911 is a good shout actually. There's a reason they are so popular.

[R2Detour]

Yep can only really see the 911 as a sports car contender.

Else i think its the hot hatch bracket that most of my criteria goes into.

Question then would be which one offers what i'm looking for - given all the hot/uber hot hatches about these days, I would imagine one or two may cover most of what i'm looking for?

[Zarco]

RS Megane, Civic Tyre R or I30 N/I20 N.

[pomp1]

I used to have an E92 M3 years ago, swapped it for a c63 coupe when they first came out then the 4.0 one x2.

My suggestion…. M2. Cheap enough, comfortable enough, fun enough I think. You should get into a decent one for £30k, though I’d try for a competition ideally.

[CG2020UK]

R2Detour said:

If i could mix something of the two, revvy, agile, bit of legroom and put it in a small ish body, coupe preferably. Ideal. That to me is almost a Cayman or Elise minus two seats and the Evora is much nearer 40k than 30k these days.

BMW M2

[georgeyboy12345]

997 Carrera 2S will lap the 'ring in 7:56

These will seat four and better 7:56

Jaguar XFR-S - 7:21
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203304...


Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio - 7:32
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209290...


Mercedes C63 AMG S - 7:44
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212282...


Porsche Panamera Turbo - 7:30
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210090...


Volvo V60 3.0 T6 Polestar 7:51
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210170...


Nissan GT-R - 7:19 - could be a bit tight seating 4 for a long time I suppose
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210110...



Edit: thought of another couple

BMW F30 M3 Competition - 7:35
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208239...

BMW M5 Competition - 7:54
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108055...

Edited by georgeyboy12345 on Friday 20th January 21:52