New car for under £20k (370Z - E92 M3 or what?)
Discussion
I am looking for a new car after a BMW 135i which is 300 bhp and 300 torque. Not really came across much that has tickled my fancy except these two cars.
I think the Nissan 370Z looks like a nice possibility but I've always been aware that it is cast as "heavy" and "slow". It is 30 bhp up on the BMW and around the same weight I think but of course naturally aspirated non turbo, the torque is 270.
Do you think this would feel disappointingly slow coming from the beemer?
My other thought was a E93 M3. Which is a bit scary, fuel costs and servicing costs etc. That actually has the same torque as the 135i though 420 bhp. Naturally aspirated again.
I guess I would need to ringing their necks to get at the power, which is less fun from a standing start.
Any thoughts on these two cars or suggestions on something I may have missed?
Subaru, Evo now too old and high appreciation. I don't care about practicality.
Thanks.
I think the Nissan 370Z looks like a nice possibility but I've always been aware that it is cast as "heavy" and "slow". It is 30 bhp up on the BMW and around the same weight I think but of course naturally aspirated non turbo, the torque is 270.
Do you think this would feel disappointingly slow coming from the beemer?
My other thought was a E93 M3. Which is a bit scary, fuel costs and servicing costs etc. That actually has the same torque as the 135i though 420 bhp. Naturally aspirated again.
I guess I would need to ringing their necks to get at the power, which is less fun from a standing start.
Any thoughts on these two cars or suggestions on something I may have missed?
Subaru, Evo now too old and high appreciation. I don't care about practicality.
Thanks.
Edited by 135boy on Tuesday 21st February 15:30
Cerb4.5Lee! Your services as naysayer of the E92 M3 are required again. Seriously, I enjoyed my E92 M3. It was plenty quick enough at lower revs and only got better as you revved it out. I miss the agility that the M5 doesn't have. My only concerns at this age would be checking the rod bearings.
I’ve got an E92 M3 (DCT Gearbox) and a Z4M Coupe. If practicality wasn’t a consideration I’d take the Z4M every time.
That said, it’s a bit spiky when driven hard. If you want something a bit more accomplished from a handling perspective then an older (2008/10 era, roughly) cayman or boxter is probably a better option.
That said, it’s a bit spiky when driven hard. If you want something a bit more accomplished from a handling perspective then an older (2008/10 era, roughly) cayman or boxter is probably a better option.
NortonES2 said:
XFR
This or a 5.0 Supercharged XKR would also be in budget. I have been scoping these out myself. The performance is, apparently, absolutely hilarious, and they sound glorious. Auto only though. I do like the 370Z though, especially a Nismo. I imagine it will feel slow compared with a tuned 135i, but they're not slow at all, just need a bit more revs. They can be made to sound amazing too, and some fun tech like rev matching in the manual.
At the other end of the scale, why not go for something more hardcore like an Elise or VX220, you'd get a VX Turbo for your budget. Alternatively, a Caterham will offer even more hardcore thrills with FRWD characteristics.
ND2 MX5 2.0 and fit the super 220 kit & coilovers. £20k all in for a 1050 kg, 220 bhp FRWD sports car with an LSD, super reliable and practical.
In a similar vain, you could get a GT86 fitted with a supercharger, I've seen these running at around 250 bhp, which should solve the performance complaints with those cars.
Porsche Boxster S / Cayman S 987.2 would be within budget. Will definitely feel a bit slower than your 135i, but the handling is on another planet, while retaining the comfort you've become used to.
Monaro VXR8 for a big V8 muscle car experience.
135boy said:
I am looking for a new car after a BMW 135i which is 300 bhp and 300 torque. Not really came across much that has tickled my fancy except these two cars.
I think the Nissan 370Z looks like a nice possibility but I've always been aware that it is cast as "heavy" and "slow". It is 30 bhp up on the BMW and around the same weight I think but of course naturally aspirated non turbo, the torque is 270.
Do you think this would feel disappointingly slow coming from the beemer?
My other thought was a E93 M3. Which is a bit scary, fuel costs and servicing costs etc. That actually has the same torque as the 135i though 420 bhp. Naturally aspirated again.
I guess I would need to ringing their necks to get at the power, which is less fun from a standing start.
Any thoughts on these two cars or suggestions on something I may have missed?
I've had an E92 M3 and I've currently got a 370Z Roadster. However I'm a big fan of turbos though and I also have a F82 M4. I think the Nissan 370Z looks like a nice possibility but I've always been aware that it is cast as "heavy" and "slow". It is 30 bhp up on the BMW and around the same weight I think but of course naturally aspirated non turbo, the torque is 270.
Do you think this would feel disappointingly slow coming from the beemer?
My other thought was a E93 M3. Which is a bit scary, fuel costs and servicing costs etc. That actually has the same torque as the 135i though 420 bhp. Naturally aspirated again.
I guess I would need to ringing their necks to get at the power, which is less fun from a standing start.
Any thoughts on these two cars or suggestions on something I may have missed?
I go on like a broken record as most people know/get sick of I'd imagine on here regards high rev NA cars that are relatively heavy! However both the 370Z/E92 M3 are far from slow, but as you say their best work is right at the top of the revs in comparison to the turbo cars though.
It depends how you plan to use the car, but I generally prefer a turbo for the daily stuff, and a NA for the weekend stuff. Also as a general rule I think that cars that weigh over or around 1600kg benefit from the extra torque shove from a turbo to help disguise the weight of the car, but that is just my personal preference though.
My BIL has had his E93 M3 DCT for 11 years this year and he is still very happy with it, but it does only use it as a weekend car though. I'm also more than happy with the 370Z too, and I really like the whole Nissan Z car vibe that surrounds it.
Try to get a go in both of them to see what you think.
TameRacingDriver said:
I do like the 370Z though, especially a Nismo. I imagine it will feel slow compared with a tuned 135i, but they're not slow at all, just need a bit more revs. They can be made to sound amazing too, and some fun tech like rev matching in the manual.
In a similar vain, you could get a GT86 fitted with a supercharger, I've seen these running at around 250 bhp, which should solve the performance complaints with those cars.
I completely agree with all of this TRD. In a similar vain, you could get a GT86 fitted with a supercharger, I've seen these running at around 250 bhp, which should solve the performance complaints with those cars.
The rev matching in the 370Z will put a smile on anyones face I reckon(especially with a none standard exhaust as you say). However I'd imagine that it would upset/make the EV lovers angry though!
A GT86 running around 250bhp with either a supercharger or turbocharger would pretty much be my ideal car, I love their size and weight big time. And 250bhp in them would be a lovely sweet spot for me.
TameRacingDriver said:
This or a 5.0 Supercharged XKR would also be in budget. I have been scoping these out myself. The performance is, apparently, absolutely hilarious, and they sound glorious. Auto only though.
I do like the 370Z though, especially a Nismo. I imagine it will feel slow compared with a tuned 135i, but they're not slow at all, just need a bit more revs. They can be made to sound amazing too, and some fun tech like rev matching in the manual.
At the other end of the scale, why not go for something more hardcore like an Elise or VX220, you'd get a VX Turbo for your budget. Alternatively, a Caterham will offer even more hardcore thrills with FRWD characteristics.
ND2 MX5 2.0 and fit the super 220 kit & coilovers. £20k all in for a 1050 kg, 220 bhp FRWD sports car with an LSD, super reliable and practical.
In a similar vain, you could get a GT86 fitted with a supercharger, I've seen these running at around 250 bhp, which should solve the performance complaints with those cars.
Porsche Boxster S / Cayman S 987.2 would be within budget. Will definitely feel a bit slower than your 135i, but the handling is on another planet, while retaining the comfort you've become used to.
Monaro VXR8 for a big V8 muscle car experience.
The only reason I no longer own an XFR is because some dufus drove into it whilst it was parked, at quite some pace, and totalled it. PM me if you want proof.I do like the 370Z though, especially a Nismo. I imagine it will feel slow compared with a tuned 135i, but they're not slow at all, just need a bit more revs. They can be made to sound amazing too, and some fun tech like rev matching in the manual.
At the other end of the scale, why not go for something more hardcore like an Elise or VX220, you'd get a VX Turbo for your budget. Alternatively, a Caterham will offer even more hardcore thrills with FRWD characteristics.
ND2 MX5 2.0 and fit the super 220 kit & coilovers. £20k all in for a 1050 kg, 220 bhp FRWD sports car with an LSD, super reliable and practical.
In a similar vain, you could get a GT86 fitted with a supercharger, I've seen these running at around 250 bhp, which should solve the performance complaints with those cars.
Porsche Boxster S / Cayman S 987.2 would be within budget. Will definitely feel a bit slower than your 135i, but the handling is on another planet, while retaining the comfort you've become used to.
Monaro VXR8 for a big V8 muscle car experience.
Otherwise I’d owned it for 9 years and had more smiles per gallon than I care to admit. Totally refined when I wanted it to be, but an understated monster whenever I needed it to be.
If I hadn’t just bought a TVR, I’d be back in a Jag SC 5.0 of some description. XKR, XFR, or F-Type.
Oh, I had a spires stage 2 that made it sound epic.
If a 370Z is an option what about a BMW Z4M or E46 M3?
More power than your 135i but even with less torque a standing start really needn't lack fun!
Any of the N/A manual options will only feel disappointingly slow if you aren't in the right gear, and an 8K red-line can get pretty exciting.
More power than your 135i but even with less torque a standing start really needn't lack fun!
Any of the N/A manual options will only feel disappointingly slow if you aren't in the right gear, and an 8K red-line can get pretty exciting.
£20k is about double my budget though so I don't think I'll be going there.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder whether to bother at all, I've been musing that I can't be bothered with the stress of running a car like most of these on the budget I have available. Not to mention the MX getting under my skin every time I drive it.
So, we'll see...
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder whether to bother at all, I've been musing that I can't be bothered with the stress of running a car like most of these on the budget I have available. Not to mention the MX getting under my skin every time I drive it.
So, we'll see...
TameRacingDriver said:
£20k is about double my budget though so I don't think I'll be going there.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder whether to bother at all, I've been musing that I can't be bothered with the stress of running a car like most of these on the budget I have available. Not to mention the MX getting under my skin every time I drive it.
So, we'll see...
I've genuinely fell out with the M4 at the moment for similar reasons(I do have history with buying cars that I can't really afford to run though), because its upcoming service is going to cost me £1k. That is a lot of money for me and it takes the edge off/knocks my duck off the ownership experience to be fair. To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder whether to bother at all, I've been musing that I can't be bothered with the stress of running a car like most of these on the budget I have available. Not to mention the MX getting under my skin every time I drive it.
So, we'll see...
There is definitely a fine line when it comes to running cars I think...but I always seem to step over it though!
I'm cracking up Lee, I thought I was replying to a completely different thread 
but yes I agree with you, cars like this cause me stress for sure.
Apologies CG2020UK / OP you're probably wondering WTF I am going on about seeing as I'm not the OP. Just ignore me
but yes I agree with you, cars like this cause me stress for sure.Apologies CG2020UK / OP you're probably wondering WTF I am going on about seeing as I'm not the OP. Just ignore me
Edited by TameRacingDriver on Wednesday 22 February 09:43
I would say that the 370z is more than comparable performance wise to the 135i, just different in nature. The BMW weighs more and has less power but the extra torque will make it seem quicker unless you use all of the revs on the 370z.
The reviews I have seen comparing the 135i and 370z generally show the 370z being quicker on track/test, though in the real world I can imagine the roles reverse. See obligatory:
The comments around the 'weight' of the 370z are often about the control weights - steering, clutch, gearchange - which are a bit more hefty than in modern over-servo assisted cars. Their weight, whilst being fairly high (around 1500kg) is less than that of a Golf R or the above BMW so not that unusual.
The 370z is reliable and pretty cheap to run apart from the road tax (though post 2017 is cheap again).
Other option would be a Cayman, though you would be in the same n/a boat and the need to rev, but it would be a joy.
As others have said you really need to drive one to find out if it is the kind of car/experience you are looking for.
The reviews I have seen comparing the 135i and 370z generally show the 370z being quicker on track/test, though in the real world I can imagine the roles reverse. See obligatory:
The comments around the 'weight' of the 370z are often about the control weights - steering, clutch, gearchange - which are a bit more hefty than in modern over-servo assisted cars. Their weight, whilst being fairly high (around 1500kg) is less than that of a Golf R or the above BMW so not that unusual.
The 370z is reliable and pretty cheap to run apart from the road tax (though post 2017 is cheap again).
Other option would be a Cayman, though you would be in the same n/a boat and the need to rev, but it would be a joy.
As others have said you really need to drive one to find out if it is the kind of car/experience you are looking for.
For smiles per mile it's got to be the XFR at < £20k.
Not the last word in dynamic ability but great fun, a lovely place to spend time, rides beautifully and still offers a lot at low speeds in comparison to some of the other options that need to be wrung out in order to deliver. The 8 speed ZF auto is also lovely to use in a daily but still does the job when looking for more excitement and suits the character of the car and engine very well.
Main downside is you'll end up on first name terms with the local petrol station attendant..
There's also the matter of purchase price. Facelift 2012> XFRs run from £14-20k for a mint low mileage example. You're looking at a £20k+ starting price for a similar age and mileage M3 DCT.
Not the last word in dynamic ability but great fun, a lovely place to spend time, rides beautifully and still offers a lot at low speeds in comparison to some of the other options that need to be wrung out in order to deliver. The 8 speed ZF auto is also lovely to use in a daily but still does the job when looking for more excitement and suits the character of the car and engine very well.
Main downside is you'll end up on first name terms with the local petrol station attendant..
135boy said:
Oh man if only that XFR came in a MT. Very nice.
My 135i is AT so kind of want a manual this time around.
As above, I wouldn't discount it. The manual gearboxes in the E92 M3 and 370Z aren't the best anyway and you'll struggle to find an E92 M3 in budget with a manual box that isn't a convertible. Not a single manual coupe for sale on AT at the minute.My 135i is AT so kind of want a manual this time around.
There's also the matter of purchase price. Facelift 2012> XFRs run from £14-20k for a mint low mileage example. You're looking at a £20k+ starting price for a similar age and mileage M3 DCT.
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 22 February 10:44
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