Elise S2 purchase
Discussion
I’ve just started looking for one of these, budget ideally £22500 but would stretch to £25000 for the right car.
The Lotus section is a bit quiet so I thought I’d ask here.
I was looking at a 111R with a Toyota lump as I’m not a huge fan of the K series engine, although most say the K suits the car better.
I’ve spotted the below which interests me but I suspect it’s a difficult sell as most crave originality.
Resale values are not top of my list but I’d prefer something to hold its value really.
What’s the consensus of opinion on these, go for a standard engined car with maybe a few choice mods or don’t worry too much and enjoy it?
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13307409
I also cant help thinking this would be the better buy but I’m not that sold on the looks.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301193...
The Lotus section is a bit quiet so I thought I’d ask here.
I was looking at a 111R with a Toyota lump as I’m not a huge fan of the K series engine, although most say the K suits the car better.
I’ve spotted the below which interests me but I suspect it’s a difficult sell as most crave originality.
Resale values are not top of my list but I’d prefer something to hold its value really.
What’s the consensus of opinion on these, go for a standard engined car with maybe a few choice mods or don’t worry too much and enjoy it?
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13307409
I also cant help thinking this would be the better buy but I’m not that sold on the looks.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301193...
Edited by Belle427 on Thursday 2nd March 07:50
The seller is a PH'er and is one of the nicest car dealers I've ever dealt with, and has even sent me a 12" record I'd been searching for for eternity.
I've only had VX220s and only had an S2 Elise briefly as a courtesy car but it was a nice little motor. Like you, I'd never consider the K-Series despite the owners proclaiming that they're 'not actually that bad' which is about as good an accolade as one can expect given the HGF
I've only had VX220s and only had an S2 Elise briefly as a courtesy car but it was a nice little motor. Like you, I'd never consider the K-Series despite the owners proclaiming that they're 'not actually that bad' which is about as good an accolade as one can expect given the HGF
I had an early s2 with a k series and it was a great first elise. Fast for B roads, and didn’t give me any issues in 2 years and 20k miles. I did however always feel that it was a car that needs a high revving engine. The k series stops wanting to rev after 5.5k, which you can also solve with some different camshafts and then headwork. I tried an s1 that had beadwork, camshafts, bigger valves, exhaust, etc and it was a very nice thing indeed, so you can also go down that route with people like kiwirog (sabreheads)or dva.
I also tried a 111r as a passenger and an exige s as a driver and absolutely loved the engines in those. Both were running an exhaust and intake so they both sounded eventful and so nice on cam change.
It felt to me that that was the engine (the high revving Toyota) that should have been put in the elise from the start. It just makes you want to rev it out all the time - loved it.
I never tried a vx220 but when i had my elise I went for a B road blast with someone that had one and there wasn’t any big differences in pace on these max 80 mph mountain roads. It was an na version though. I imagine a turbo version might be very fun too.
About the duratec version you posted - it should be harder to sell than other versions (that one has been for sale for some months now) but as long as the mods have been well made, its just about finding the right buyer that understands the product.
I think it depends on what you want. High revving sports car drama - I’d go 111r or elise sc. i think these are the pick of the s2 range in my experience so far. The only negative for me is the braking feel that isn’t as good as unassisted elises.
Lightest possible elise - k series. Bonus points for being accessible to mod for more revs and power, and these mods won’t scare potential buyers off when/if you want to sell it. There’s also the 111s 160 hp version that apparently revs higher, never tried one though.
Don’t mind having something more unique - duratec conversion. I think youd need to be looking for a very unique elise to go for this.
Want a turbo - vx220
In any case you can’t go wrong and you’ll love whatever you end up choosing I think!
I also tried a 111r as a passenger and an exige s as a driver and absolutely loved the engines in those. Both were running an exhaust and intake so they both sounded eventful and so nice on cam change.
It felt to me that that was the engine (the high revving Toyota) that should have been put in the elise from the start. It just makes you want to rev it out all the time - loved it.
I never tried a vx220 but when i had my elise I went for a B road blast with someone that had one and there wasn’t any big differences in pace on these max 80 mph mountain roads. It was an na version though. I imagine a turbo version might be very fun too.
About the duratec version you posted - it should be harder to sell than other versions (that one has been for sale for some months now) but as long as the mods have been well made, its just about finding the right buyer that understands the product.
I think it depends on what you want. High revving sports car drama - I’d go 111r or elise sc. i think these are the pick of the s2 range in my experience so far. The only negative for me is the braking feel that isn’t as good as unassisted elises.
Lightest possible elise - k series. Bonus points for being accessible to mod for more revs and power, and these mods won’t scare potential buyers off when/if you want to sell it. There’s also the 111s 160 hp version that apparently revs higher, never tried one though.
Don’t mind having something more unique - duratec conversion. I think youd need to be looking for a very unique elise to go for this.
Want a turbo - vx220
In any case you can’t go wrong and you’ll love whatever you end up choosing I think!
Have you been and seen a VX220 in the flesh? For some reason they dont seem to photograph very well, but the curves look so much better in reality.
I think personally, if I was paying the Lotus badge premium over a VX220 I would want it with the engine as it came out the factory. Thats my person opinion and appreciate its not for everyone.
Where are you spending most of your time in this purchase? Maybe consider if you actually need a 111R of if a standard Toyota lump S2 is the way forwards.
Heres my old girl with a few other Hethel brothers and sisters!
I think personally, if I was paying the Lotus badge premium over a VX220 I would want it with the engine as it came out the factory. Thats my person opinion and appreciate its not for everyone.
Where are you spending most of your time in this purchase? Maybe consider if you actually need a 111R of if a standard Toyota lump S2 is the way forwards.
Heres my old girl with a few other Hethel brothers and sisters!
coldel said:
Have you been and seen a VX220 in the flesh? For some reason they dont seem to photograph very well, but the curves look so much better in reality.
I think personally, if I was paying the Lotus badge premium over a VX220 I would want it with the engine as it came out the factory. Thats my person opinion and appreciate its not for everyone.
Where are you spending most of your time in this purchase? Maybe consider if you actually need a 111R of if a standard Toyota lump S2 is the way forwards.
Heres my old girl with a few other Hethel brothers and sisters!
Purely a weekend car.I think personally, if I was paying the Lotus badge premium over a VX220 I would want it with the engine as it came out the factory. Thats my person opinion and appreciate its not for everyone.
Where are you spending most of your time in this purchase? Maybe consider if you actually need a 111R of if a standard Toyota lump S2 is the way forwards.
Heres my old girl with a few other Hethel brothers and sisters!
Not seen a VX in the flesh so as you say may be worth a look.
More like an S1 are they with larger sills etc?
Belle427 said:
Purely a weekend car.
Not seen a VX in the flesh so as you say may be worth a look.
More like an S1 are they with larger sills etc?
Well they share the same platform as the S2 so imagine inside you are looking at much the same layout. As I understood it the VX220 is slightly lower at the roof line and a slightly longer wheelbase. Not seen a VX in the flesh so as you say may be worth a look.
More like an S1 are they with larger sills etc?
Personal choice, but I don’t like the R. Cam change is ‘false’ and non-linear imo.
Don’t be afraid of mods as most elises have been fiddled with. That said, duratec is a more off beat swap. Unless you really have a preference I wouldn’t chase engine mods too early. The chassis is king here and even 120hp is a hoot if you can drive. Fresh suspension might be a better priority.
Don’t be afraid of mods as most elises have been fiddled with. That said, duratec is a more off beat swap. Unless you really have a preference I wouldn’t chase engine mods too early. The chassis is king here and even 120hp is a hoot if you can drive. Fresh suspension might be a better priority.
CABC said:
Personal choice, but I don’t like the R. Cam change is ‘false’ and non-linear imo.
Don’t be afraid of mods as most elises have been fiddled with. That said, duratec is a more off beat swap. Unless you really have a preference I wouldn’t chase engine mods too early. The chassis is king here and even 120hp is a hoot if you can drive. Fresh suspension might be a better priority.
You are right, some people say the 135R version is probably the pick of the bunch for outright fun.Don’t be afraid of mods as most elises have been fiddled with. That said, duratec is a more off beat swap. Unless you really have a preference I wouldn’t chase engine mods too early. The chassis is king here and even 120hp is a hoot if you can drive. Fresh suspension might be a better priority.
I have recently bought a 111R and so far am a big fan. The noise it makes when the cam comes in is fantastic. I have had an S2 111S and both flavours of VX220, I think the 111R is my favourite as it feels the most ‘special’ but that is possibly because I’m still in the honeymoon period with it.
Belle427 said:
You are right, some people say the 135R version is probably the pick of the bunch for outright fun.
There’s no right or wrong. But I would also pick the 135 
I have the ‘runt’ 1.6. Thought about upgrading but reality is that it’s a great car with trd air box and sports exhaust.
It’s a momentum car, so I want predictable throttle response and induction noise.
Nickp82 said:
I have recently bought a 111R and so far am a big fan. The noise it makes when the cam comes in is fantastic. I have had an S2 111S and both flavours of VX220, I think the 111R is my favourite as it feels the most ‘special’ but that is possibly because I’m still in the honeymoon period with it.
I think the 111R is what I’m going to concentrate on as I do think the car benefits from some kind of an event of an engine.Combined with a nice intake and exhaust I think it will be a sweet thing.
You will get far more bang for your buck with a VX IMO, plus they're rarer (probably due to badge snobbery), and right now the prices will only go up, possibly the same for the Elise though.
If it were my money, a VX every time, you just get more for your money and I prefer the underdog.
If it were my money, a VX every time, you just get more for your money and I prefer the underdog.
There is definitely a different driving feel to both the Elise and the VX. My old VX220 turbo had a map on it pushing out 225bhp. It could happily keep up with a C63 AMG on a big open road as much as it could keep up with an Elise down the twisties. It was hilariously raw and visceral. But, the power delivery is so much different for a turbo vs an NA.
Ultimately, you want people that want to own a Lotus, so the badge matters. You also want people that want NA over Turbo. So can understand why with both those things in play people shy away from the better value car to the more expensive Lotus.
Ultimately, you want people that want to own a Lotus, so the badge matters. You also want people that want NA over Turbo. So can understand why with both those things in play people shy away from the better value car to the more expensive Lotus.
I can't believe head gaskets are still putting people off K-series engines!
But if you don't want a K I find the duratec conversions really appealing as a concept. you get the lighter weight and unassisted brakes of the pre-toyota cars as well as (usually) more torque and power than a 111R and with potential for more.
It's not a deal breaker but it bugs me that the toyota cars' weights jumped so much.
But if you don't want a K I find the duratec conversions really appealing as a concept. you get the lighter weight and unassisted brakes of the pre-toyota cars as well as (usually) more torque and power than a 111R and with potential for more.
It's not a deal breaker but it bugs me that the toyota cars' weights jumped so much.
braddo said:
I can't believe head gaskets are still putting people off K-series engines!
But if you don't want a K I find the duratec conversions really appealing as a concept. you get the lighter weight and unassisted brakes of the pre-toyota cars as well as (usually) more torque and power than a 111R and with potential for more.
It's not a deal breaker but it bugs me that the toyota cars' weights jumped so much.
That’s what appealed to me really, described as a K series on steroids which is fine by me.But if you don't want a K I find the duratec conversions really appealing as a concept. you get the lighter weight and unassisted brakes of the pre-toyota cars as well as (usually) more torque and power than a 111R and with potential for more.
It's not a deal breaker but it bugs me that the toyota cars' weights jumped so much.
I know if built right the K series is a good engine but can cost a fair bit to sort out.
Got to be honest I've looked at VX220s and can't help thinking they are better value.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023011934...
Edited by Belle427 on Friday 3rd March 14:57
braddo said:
I can't believe head gaskets are still putting people off K-series engines!
But if you don't want a K I find the duratec conversions really appealing as a concept. you get the lighter weight and unassisted brakes of the pre-toyota cars as well as (usually) more torque and power than a 111R and with potential for more.
It's not a deal breaker but it bugs me that the toyota cars' weights jumped so much.
I don't get the HGF thing either, especially if it's already been rectified properly. It's hardly a massive bill. If it's that much of an issue, get it done as part of a C service as a preventative measure.But if you don't want a K I find the duratec conversions really appealing as a concept. you get the lighter weight and unassisted brakes of the pre-toyota cars as well as (usually) more torque and power than a 111R and with potential for more.
It's not a deal breaker but it bugs me that the toyota cars' weights jumped so much.
The K Series cars do offer a more pure driving experience; lighter and no servo assistance etc.
They are all good, an Elise to suit different tastes/requirements. I do feel like the K in an Elise gets some strange ruinous bork stigma associated with it. The Toyota lumped cars are aging and not without problems.
I know the owners love them, but personally I've never seen the point of the low powered Toyotas. They're no lighter than the 190bhp cars, and they have pretty much the same torque curve up to the point where the 190's go ballistic and they have to change up. Better to get a K series car if you want a less powerful S2, in my opinion.
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