Advice for Financial Ombudsman complaint - Mini Countryman
Discussion
Hi, need advice please as never been in this situ before.
Purchased a used Mini Countryman from dealer via Moto Novo Finance in February. Immediately noticed steering issue with steering veering erratically, complaint made to dealer who booked in wheel alignment. Local garage attempted wheel alignment and initially said adjustors were ineffective so they had to replace the arms/washers before carrying out the wheel alignment. Once done they said it made no impact to the steering, which was still very "concerning", they also discovered two oil leaks which looked to have been there for some time. This was 10/03 and I haven't driven the car since bringing it back from the garage that day. The dealer stated the remaining steering was due to run flat tyres, despite the garage stating it was definitely not due to run flat tyres.
I raised a vehicle quality complaint same day to Moto Novo Finance, stating my intention to reject the vehicle as they have had their one opportunity to remediate which did not fix, and other issues identified.
They instructed an ACE inspector who came 20/03 and once I received a copy of this report, it stated
"Whilst carrying out a road test in the vehicle the steering was pulling heavily to the left and there was a heavy knocking type noise from the nearside front suspension....When checking the engine oil leak on the vehicle from the top of the engine there was visible oil staining to the front and rear of the engine block itself...On inspection to the underside of the vehicle the oil was dripping from the sump pan area at both the front and rear on the engine assembly this will need cleaning and further checks carrying out under workshop conditions to find the source of the oil leak and any rectification work carried out as required."
"In conclusion based on the evidence available to ourselves at the time of inspection we would consider the reported faults with the vehicle to have been present or developing at the point of finance inception and the selling agents have responsibility."
Moto Novo Finance issued their Final Decision last Friday, stating the dealer has offered to fix the steering/oil issues and this would be classed as a continuation of repairs, and I have not given them the opportunity to fix the oil leak.
In my opinion, they have already had their 1 attempt at fixing the steering, which was unsuccessful, and other issues (two oil leaks, suspension) were identified at the time of attempted repair. I should not have to give them another opportunity to fix subsequent issues they have discovered.
I've raised a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman, but I understand the process is very slow - at least 4 months. Yesterday the dealer made contact to ask when they can pick up the vehicle for repair, and offer a courtesy car. I guess my main question is if I allow them to do this, will it affect my claim with the ombudsman to reject the car, as I am effectively consenting to the dealer repairing it? Equally we are extremely stuck living in a rural village with no amenities and 2 toddlers who we need to drive from a-b daily, and we can't afford to purchase another car whilst I'm still paying for this car.
Would appreciate any advice, thanks
Purchased a used Mini Countryman from dealer via Moto Novo Finance in February. Immediately noticed steering issue with steering veering erratically, complaint made to dealer who booked in wheel alignment. Local garage attempted wheel alignment and initially said adjustors were ineffective so they had to replace the arms/washers before carrying out the wheel alignment. Once done they said it made no impact to the steering, which was still very "concerning", they also discovered two oil leaks which looked to have been there for some time. This was 10/03 and I haven't driven the car since bringing it back from the garage that day. The dealer stated the remaining steering was due to run flat tyres, despite the garage stating it was definitely not due to run flat tyres.
I raised a vehicle quality complaint same day to Moto Novo Finance, stating my intention to reject the vehicle as they have had their one opportunity to remediate which did not fix, and other issues identified.
They instructed an ACE inspector who came 20/03 and once I received a copy of this report, it stated
"Whilst carrying out a road test in the vehicle the steering was pulling heavily to the left and there was a heavy knocking type noise from the nearside front suspension....When checking the engine oil leak on the vehicle from the top of the engine there was visible oil staining to the front and rear of the engine block itself...On inspection to the underside of the vehicle the oil was dripping from the sump pan area at both the front and rear on the engine assembly this will need cleaning and further checks carrying out under workshop conditions to find the source of the oil leak and any rectification work carried out as required."
"In conclusion based on the evidence available to ourselves at the time of inspection we would consider the reported faults with the vehicle to have been present or developing at the point of finance inception and the selling agents have responsibility."
Moto Novo Finance issued their Final Decision last Friday, stating the dealer has offered to fix the steering/oil issues and this would be classed as a continuation of repairs, and I have not given them the opportunity to fix the oil leak.
In my opinion, they have already had their 1 attempt at fixing the steering, which was unsuccessful, and other issues (two oil leaks, suspension) were identified at the time of attempted repair. I should not have to give them another opportunity to fix subsequent issues they have discovered.
I've raised a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman, but I understand the process is very slow - at least 4 months. Yesterday the dealer made contact to ask when they can pick up the vehicle for repair, and offer a courtesy car. I guess my main question is if I allow them to do this, will it affect my claim with the ombudsman to reject the car, as I am effectively consenting to the dealer repairing it? Equally we are extremely stuck living in a rural village with no amenities and 2 toddlers who we need to drive from a-b daily, and we can't afford to purchase another car whilst I'm still paying for this car.
Would appreciate any advice, thanks
Did the fault with steering, present within 30 days as I believe the right to reject exists in the period without the need for allowing them attempt to fix.
the sticky wicket passed that is the oil leak has not been offered for rectification, if it the 2.0 petrol shared with 1/2 series have heard oil leaks and high oil consumption is not unusual.
I get the impression you want to give it back and walk away, what would you do for a car if this goes back??
the sticky wicket passed that is the oil leak has not been offered for rectification, if it the 2.0 petrol shared with 1/2 series have heard oil leaks and high oil consumption is not unusual.
I get the impression you want to give it back and walk away, what would you do for a car if this goes back??
Edited by Adminstrator on Thursday 4th May 13:34
nazza99 said:
Purchased a used Mini Countryman from dealer
complaint made to dealer who booked in wheel alignment. Local garage attempted wheel alignment.....
Dealer as in "Mini main dealer" or as in "second hand car trader"?complaint made to dealer who booked in wheel alignment. Local garage attempted wheel alignment.....
Why was the first rectification attempted by a "local garage"?
Panamax said:
Dealer as in "Mini main dealer" or as in "second hand car trader"?
Why was the first rectification attempted by a "local garage"?
When they say dealer I think they mean car dealer small scale, no BMW Mini dealer I have seen use MOTO Novo finance (is not great finance for non main dealers dealing with sub prime rates in my experience), the average bini countryman customer is going to be not very savvy with cars (why else by that crap box) they do a lot of Motorate stuff which is subprime high risk.Why was the first rectification attempted by a "local garage"?
They do offer pcp rates that are ok through big car super markets
thanks for your replies - it wasn't a Mini dealer, it was a used car dealer.
I received the car on 1st Feb and reported the steering fault to the dealer on 6th Feb. When they recommended wheel alignment, I obtained a quote from North Oxford Mini but the dealer wouldn't authorise it (stating they won't accept quotes from franchises ???). So they found a local (to me) garage who attempted the wheel alignment but said it made no impact on steering, and that there was something fundamentally wrong with it / concerning to drive.
I received the car on 1st Feb and reported the steering fault to the dealer on 6th Feb. When they recommended wheel alignment, I obtained a quote from North Oxford Mini but the dealer wouldn't authorise it (stating they won't accept quotes from franchises ???). So they found a local (to me) garage who attempted the wheel alignment but said it made no impact on steering, and that there was something fundamentally wrong with it / concerning to drive.
And yes I want to reject the car, lost confidence in it and it's mainly to shuttle around my 2.5 and 4yo. Having smoke coming in from the bonnet from the oil leaks and car veering off to the left very suddenly is not something I'm too keen on! (and admit I'm defo not savvy about cars). But feel like I've been sold a £10k lump of crap. But as far as I'm concerned, they've had their one attempt to repair. Which failed. However Moto Novo Finance are classing this as a "continuation of repairs". I can't see how that stacks up with the Consumer Right Act stating they have ONLY one attempt to fix, if that fails, I'm legally entitled to return the car.
nazza99 said:
And yes I want to reject the car, lost confidence in it and it's mainly to shuttle around my 2.5 and 4yo. Having smoke coming in from the bonnet from the oil leaks and car veering off to the left very suddenly is not something I'm too keen on! (and admit I'm defo not savvy about cars). But feel like I've been sold a £10k lump of crap. But as far as I'm concerned, they've had their one attempt to repair. Which failed. However Moto Novo Finance are classing this as a "continuation of repairs". I can't see how that stacks up with the Consumer Right Act stating they have ONLY one attempt to fix, if that fails, I'm legally entitled to return the car.
You just want to reject the car under Consumer Rights Act 2015 first 30 days its got two major faults and they have ;ready attempted repaired of a dangerous one the steering and failed. If its massively apparent the car pulls as per independent tests then they risk you life and that of your offspring by giving it back to you!https://www.lawble.co.uk/consumer-rights-act-2015-...
Motto Novo will have paid the dealer a tonne of commission and won't want to lose the deal, your consumer rights have nothing to do with their finance, its rejected and don't buy another Bini!
Notify the dealer and motto novo of that asap in writing.
Get a skoda kamiq, seat or such like you want a decent family car these binis are terrible cars for people trying to impress people they don't know.
Edited by Adminstrator on Thursday 4th May 15:01
Adminstrator said:
these binis are terrible cars for people trying to impress people they don't know.
Lol, yes that sounds about right! I keep stating I'm rejecting the car but it falls on deaf ears...seller said "I'm not sure we'd accept a return on this basis", Moto Novo Finance have closed the case and won't respond to my emails or calls...so it seems the only option available is the Ombudsman, which will take ages. Seems I'm stuck with an undrivable car in the meantime and have no other option but to wait it out. Edited by Adminstrator on Thursday 4th May 15:01
But that is sound advice, I'll get it in writing to both of them.
nazza99 said:
Lol, yes that sounds about right! I keep stating I'm rejecting the car but it falls on deaf ears...seller said "I'm not sure we'd accept a return on this basis", Moto Novo Finance have closed the case and won't respond to my emails or calls...so it seems the only option available is the Ombudsman, which will take ages. Seems I'm stuck with an undrivable car in the meantime and have no other option but to wait it out.
But that is sound advice, I'll get it in writing to both of them.
Annoyingly you have had the car more than 30 days (did put in writing you wanted to reject it within 30 days of purchase?)But that is sound advice, I'll get it in writing to both of them.
You can still reject within 6 months but the dealer can claim a value reduction here....
In the first 30 days you can reject without repair...
After that I read you must allow them to attempt repair which you did for the steering issue and the oil issue was found after that.. so I would say you can still reject but there may be a write down on the car which if you bought in March at top dollar could be a few quid,.
Or you can accept another repair but as I read CRA you are entitled to reject now but if you tried in writing in 30 days stick to that!
Final right to reject – the first six months
If you have had the car for more than 30 days but less than six months, you have to give the selling dealer one attempt to fix the fault before moving to reject the vehicle. If the repair has not fixed the fault, you can reject the vehicle.
If you part-exchanged your old car on the new one, you will not get it back. Instead, you will get a cash value for the new car. However, unlike the short-term right to reject, it may not be the full value.
In this instance, the dealer is able to claim a reduction in the value of the vehicle. This is based on the mileage covered and time elapsed. There is no guidance on how much they can charge you, so be prepared to negotiate this with the dealer. If it goes to court, the judge will decide.
As above, it is the dealer’s obligation to collect the vehicle under the Act. You cannot be charged for return costs or be forced to return the vehicle yourself.
Be good to read this site>
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#:~...
Trevor555 said:
Which ombudsman?
The FCA?
Have they accepted your complaint?
It was via Financial-Ombudsman.org.uk.The FCA?
Have they accepted your complaint?
I logged the complaint over the phone today and have a reference number. Sent all the relevant docs over. It won’t be allocated to a case handler for 4mths at least I was told.
Adminstrator said:
Annoyingly you have had the car more than 30 days (did put in writing you wanted to reject it within 30 days of purchase?)
You can still reject within 6 months but the dealer can claim a value reduction here....
In the first 30 days you can reject without repair...
After that I read you must allow them to attempt repair which you did for the steering issue and the oil issue was found after that.. so I would say you can still reject but there may be a write down on the car which if you bought in March at top dollar could be a few quid,.
Or you can accept another repair but as I read CRA you are entitled to reject now but if you tried in writing in 30 days stick to that!
Final right to reject – the first six months
If you have had the car for more than 30 days but less than six months, you have to give the selling dealer one attempt to fix the fault before moving to reject the vehicle. If the repair has not fixed the fault, you can reject the vehicle.
If you part-exchanged your old car on the new one, you will not get it back. Instead, you will get a cash value for the new car. However, unlike the short-term right to reject, it may not be the full value.
In this instance, the dealer is able to claim a reduction in the value of the vehicle. This is based on the mileage covered and time elapsed. There is no guidance on how much they can charge you, so be prepared to negotiate this with the dealer. If it goes to court, the judge will decide.
As above, it is the dealer’s obligation to collect the vehicle under the Act. You cannot be charged for return costs or be forced to return the vehicle yourself.
Be good to read this site>
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#:~...
Thanks for the link. No annoyingly I don’t have a record within 30 days of me rejecting the car - and tbh it wasn’t until the garage that tried to fix the steering and also noticed the oil leaks, basically said it’s a rotten egg and you should sent it back that I wanted to reject it, as I had thought until that point it was just tracking that was needed. That was 10th March which is over 30days unfortunately.You can still reject within 6 months but the dealer can claim a value reduction here....
In the first 30 days you can reject without repair...
After that I read you must allow them to attempt repair which you did for the steering issue and the oil issue was found after that.. so I would say you can still reject but there may be a write down on the car which if you bought in March at top dollar could be a few quid,.
Or you can accept another repair but as I read CRA you are entitled to reject now but if you tried in writing in 30 days stick to that!
Final right to reject – the first six months
If you have had the car for more than 30 days but less than six months, you have to give the selling dealer one attempt to fix the fault before moving to reject the vehicle. If the repair has not fixed the fault, you can reject the vehicle.
If you part-exchanged your old car on the new one, you will not get it back. Instead, you will get a cash value for the new car. However, unlike the short-term right to reject, it may not be the full value.
In this instance, the dealer is able to claim a reduction in the value of the vehicle. This is based on the mileage covered and time elapsed. There is no guidance on how much they can charge you, so be prepared to negotiate this with the dealer. If it goes to court, the judge will decide.
As above, it is the dealer’s obligation to collect the vehicle under the Act. You cannot be charged for return costs or be forced to return the vehicle yourself.
Be good to read this site>
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#:~...
I’ve done less than 400 miles as it’s only done some errands with the kids and one return to Guildford from Banbury. Although mileage doesn’t stack up with the ACE report as it states I’ve done 830. Minor difference I suppose, I’ve hardly driven it
Good luck with the Financial Ombudsman. I used them recently. Waited nearly a year for a response. They then took only a matter of a few weeks to give me their decision but misquoted me and consequently got a lot of the facts wrong in their final decision.
When I pointed out their errors, they simply said it didn't affect their decision. But their facts were so wrong, that it must have had an influence on their final conclusion. In the end, 'they' compensated me by way of an apology.
The whole process was a complete waste of my time. I'd never use them again.
This is just my opinion though, based on my own personal experience. You might have better luck.
When I pointed out their errors, they simply said it didn't affect their decision. But their facts were so wrong, that it must have had an influence on their final conclusion. In the end, 'they' compensated me by way of an apology.
The whole process was a complete waste of my time. I'd never use them again.
This is just my opinion though, based on my own personal experience. You might have better luck.
nazza99 said:
Trevor555 said:
Which ombudsman?
The FCA?
Have they accepted your complaint?
It was via Financial-Ombudsman.org.uk.The FCA?
Have they accepted your complaint?
I logged the complaint over the phone today and have a reference number. Sent all the relevant docs over. It won’t be allocated to a case handler for 4mths at least I was told.
The finance company will be far more concerned if you're complaining to the FCA
If the FCA accept you complaint the finance company have to pay for the investigation, and the FCA have the power to fine the finance company for any shortfalls in their conduct.
And please call citizens advice.
They'll ask you exact dates of what/when, and tell you what can be done.
The 30 days you mention also extends by any time that the car is back at the garage for repair, as well as any other garage that the dealer authorised you to take it to.
But if you reported the fault within 30 days I'm sure you'll be in a good position.
Call citizens advice tomorrow.
Edited by Trevor555 on Thursday 4th May 18:32
CharlieAlphaMike said:
Good luck with the Financial Ombudsman. I used them recently. Waited nearly a year for a response. They then took only a matter of a few weeks to give me their decision but misquoted me and consequently got a lot of the facts wrong in their final decision.
When I pointed out their errors, they simply said it didn't affect their decision. But their facts were so wrong, that it must have had an influence on their final conclusion. In the end, 'they' compensated me by way of an apology.
The whole process was a complete waste of my time. I'd never use them again.
This is just my opinion though, based on my own personal experience. You might have better luck.
How frustrating. I’m not hopeful I’ll have better luck, the whole thing has been a complete drain. The thought of having this unsafe car for another year is just terrifying, financially and emotionally. I won’t drive it but then don’t know whether to just accept the repair or it’ll fall out of their 6mth warranty and then I’ll be really screwed. When I pointed out their errors, they simply said it didn't affect their decision. But their facts were so wrong, that it must have had an influence on their final conclusion. In the end, 'they' compensated me by way of an apology.
The whole process was a complete waste of my time. I'd never use them again.
This is just my opinion though, based on my own personal experience. You might have better luck.
Trevor555 said:
nazza99 said:
Trevor555 said:
Which ombudsman?
The FCA?
Have they accepted your complaint?
It was via Financial-Ombudsman.org.uk.The FCA?
Have they accepted your complaint?
I logged the complaint over the phone today and have a reference number. Sent all the relevant docs over. It won’t be allocated to a case handler for 4mths at least I was told.
The finance company will be far more concerned if you're complaining to the FCA
If the FCA accept you complaint the finance company have to pay for the investigation, and the FCA have the power to fine the finance company for any shortfalls in their conduct.
And please call citizens advice.
They'll ask you exact dates of what/when, and tell you what can be done.
The 30 days you mention also extends by any time that the car is back at the garage for repair, as well as any other garage that the dealer authorised you to take it to.
But if you reported the fault within 30 days I'm sure you'll be in a good position.
Call citizens advice tomorrow.
Edited by Trevor555 on Thursday 4th May 18:32
You can register the complaint through them, but they don’t directly investigate them.
Their complaints remit is to make sure that all FCA authorised firms have their own complaints process. If you contact them directly, they just forward to the Financial Ombudsman.
Their complaints statement is below.
https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/how-complain#:~:t...
IMHO
If the finance companies investigator hasn’t viewed the ‘because run flats’ response as a full on refusal to look at the issue some more, then your logical solution is to let the dealer have another crack at it.
It’s s
tty, but asking the question again won’t guarantee a U turn.Trevor555 said:
Complain to the FCA
The finance company will be far more concerned if you're complaining to the FCA
If the FCA accept you complaint the finance company have to pay for the investigation, and the FCA have the power to fine the finance company for any shortfalls in their conduct.
And please call citizens advice.
They'll ask you exact dates of what/when, and tell you what can be done.
The 30 days you mention also extends by any time that the car is back at the garage for repair, as well as any other garage that the dealer authorised you to take it to.
But if you reported the fault within 30 days I'm sure you'll be in a good position.
Call citizens advice tomorrow.
I agree never heard of a ombudsman that wasn't a toothless waste of time staffed by lowly paid civil servants who were all very obliging. The finance company will be far more concerned if you're complaining to the FCA
If the FCA accept you complaint the finance company have to pay for the investigation, and the FCA have the power to fine the finance company for any shortfalls in their conduct.
And please call citizens advice.
They'll ask you exact dates of what/when, and tell you what can be done.
The 30 days you mention also extends by any time that the car is back at the garage for repair, as well as any other garage that the dealer authorised you to take it to.
But if you reported the fault within 30 days I'm sure you'll be in a good position.
Call citizens advice tomorrow.
Edited by Trevor555 on Thursday 4th May 18:32
FCA is another level, if you told them you wanted to reject the car within 30 days then you may have against them!
Main thing is to write to dealer email and letter recorded stating you still as per the date your returned the vehicle and they attempted repair but it has not fixed the issue.
There are some things to weigh up here, I understand that you've lost confidence in the car & want to reject it but the finance company are basically telling you they're happy to let the dealer have one last go at repairing the car.
Now I get you don't want the car BUT maybe see if the dealer has a different car that suits your needs as it may bring about a speedier resolution.
I'm not saying don't go down the Ombudsman route but it may just be a quicker solution.
Now I get you don't want the car BUT maybe see if the dealer has a different car that suits your needs as it may bring about a speedier resolution.
I'm not saying don't go down the Ombudsman route but it may just be a quicker solution.
I've read many ACE reports. Was it Graham who came out? Usually he mentions returning the car to the supplying dealer if they are recommending rejection.
Was the complaint upheld? Did you receive a FOS leaflet with you final response? If not you many not have any FOS rights.
My advice would be to get it fixed and if there's any further issues with the repairs go back to the finance company and ask to reject the vehicle on the basis of a failed repair.
Was the complaint upheld? Did you receive a FOS leaflet with you final response? If not you many not have any FOS rights.
My advice would be to get it fixed and if there's any further issues with the repairs go back to the finance company and ask to reject the vehicle on the basis of a failed repair.
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