Sold Used car with fresh MOT and missing wheel bolts
Discussion
First post but looking for advice on next steps on a very unpleasant used car purchase:
Situation: Bought a used car online from a registered dealer a considerable distance from my home - 400 miles away. Viewed the pre-sale video, did an HPI check, did a check on MOT history and clarified with the dealer that it would come with a fresh MOT, nationwide three-month warranty and a service. I also asked for (and paid for) delivery of the vehicle.
A week later, the car arrived having had a fresh MOT the day before. It failed an initial MOT 24 hours earlier due to dodgy front brakes and a broken spring, but these appeared to be rectified with the new MOT having no advisories. The car arrived with a driver who had driven 400 miles to my home, which I was a bit taken aback by. I did a very quick inspection loop of the car - non mechanical - and it seemed as described.
Foolishly, I felt reassured by the MOT and the fact it did indeed appear to have new front brakes on.
I went on holiday the day after purchasing the car for a week and did no test drive or checks. But after I got back I did a few shortish trips totalling around 100 miles. I discovered a puncture. On close inspection the tyre with the puncture was severely damaged and beyond all repair or roadworthiness.
I took the car to a very close by tyre dealer and then discovered the real issues.
Firstly, there was no locking wheel nut. Worse still, the garage instantly discovered that wheel bolts were missing from two of the wheels (both the locking bolts) and a third one was cracked beyond repair within the wheel. There was a fourth fresh bolt visible on the other tyre. I have subsequently made contact with the garage that I purchased the car from. They told me to put it in writing, which I did, also mindful of the fact there was no warranty paperwork as promised.
They are now ignoring all my calls and messages but, mysteriously, have taken out a fresh warranty with wear and tear add-ons in the last 24 hours. My mechanic friend has advised me that the absence of the wheel bolts should have constituted an instant 'major dangerous' fail on the MOT.
I am now 16 days on from purchase and have taken the car completely off road pending further inspection. I am concerned as to why the garage decided not to replace the wheel bolts, fearful of what may or may not lie underneath that is even more serious.
I am also seriously concerned that they put a driver (and others on the road) at risk whilst travelling 400 miles in the car with missing wheel bolts. I do not know, however, if the driver was aware of this or not.
In terms of evidence, I have kept the pre-sale video which appears to show the absence of wheel bolts, images from the delivery note of the driver which - again appears to show missing wheel bolts - and a video of the car at my home.
I am within the time limits of a fresh DVSA test of the car and/or an MOT elsewhere and personally feel inclined to reject the car within the 30 day limit. Again, though, without the garage responding it is difficult to get confirmation of this.
My car will remain off road until it is resolved. When it is retested, it will be towed, and regardless of whether it is rejected or not I feel a duty of care to ensure that the car is not merely flipped over to someone else with more severe consequences for their safety.
Can you advise what the process is for DVSA test, what action is likely to take place post-test (given that it will absolutely fail) and how likely it is I can then subsequently reclaim all money (including delivery costs) from the dodgy dealer?
Situation: Bought a used car online from a registered dealer a considerable distance from my home - 400 miles away. Viewed the pre-sale video, did an HPI check, did a check on MOT history and clarified with the dealer that it would come with a fresh MOT, nationwide three-month warranty and a service. I also asked for (and paid for) delivery of the vehicle.
A week later, the car arrived having had a fresh MOT the day before. It failed an initial MOT 24 hours earlier due to dodgy front brakes and a broken spring, but these appeared to be rectified with the new MOT having no advisories. The car arrived with a driver who had driven 400 miles to my home, which I was a bit taken aback by. I did a very quick inspection loop of the car - non mechanical - and it seemed as described.
Foolishly, I felt reassured by the MOT and the fact it did indeed appear to have new front brakes on.
I went on holiday the day after purchasing the car for a week and did no test drive or checks. But after I got back I did a few shortish trips totalling around 100 miles. I discovered a puncture. On close inspection the tyre with the puncture was severely damaged and beyond all repair or roadworthiness.
I took the car to a very close by tyre dealer and then discovered the real issues.
Firstly, there was no locking wheel nut. Worse still, the garage instantly discovered that wheel bolts were missing from two of the wheels (both the locking bolts) and a third one was cracked beyond repair within the wheel. There was a fourth fresh bolt visible on the other tyre. I have subsequently made contact with the garage that I purchased the car from. They told me to put it in writing, which I did, also mindful of the fact there was no warranty paperwork as promised.
They are now ignoring all my calls and messages but, mysteriously, have taken out a fresh warranty with wear and tear add-ons in the last 24 hours. My mechanic friend has advised me that the absence of the wheel bolts should have constituted an instant 'major dangerous' fail on the MOT.
I am now 16 days on from purchase and have taken the car completely off road pending further inspection. I am concerned as to why the garage decided not to replace the wheel bolts, fearful of what may or may not lie underneath that is even more serious.
I am also seriously concerned that they put a driver (and others on the road) at risk whilst travelling 400 miles in the car with missing wheel bolts. I do not know, however, if the driver was aware of this or not.
In terms of evidence, I have kept the pre-sale video which appears to show the absence of wheel bolts, images from the delivery note of the driver which - again appears to show missing wheel bolts - and a video of the car at my home.
I am within the time limits of a fresh DVSA test of the car and/or an MOT elsewhere and personally feel inclined to reject the car within the 30 day limit. Again, though, without the garage responding it is difficult to get confirmation of this.
My car will remain off road until it is resolved. When it is retested, it will be towed, and regardless of whether it is rejected or not I feel a duty of care to ensure that the car is not merely flipped over to someone else with more severe consequences for their safety.
Can you advise what the process is for DVSA test, what action is likely to take place post-test (given that it will absolutely fail) and how likely it is I can then subsequently reclaim all money (including delivery costs) from the dodgy dealer?
What are the issues?
Missing lock nut key.
Missing lock nut from each front wheel.
Cracked wheel.
Is it possible the lock nut key and / or bolts were worn / damaged, possibly during pre sales work and their replacement has been over looked?
Cracked alloy, hard to prove that one as it could have happened during the 400 mile delivery drive.
Not playing it down but might not be a serious as you first think... but you could get it re-tested and / or independently assessed?
Missing lock nut key.
Missing lock nut from each front wheel.
Cracked wheel.
Is it possible the lock nut key and / or bolts were worn / damaged, possibly during pre sales work and their replacement has been over looked?
Cracked alloy, hard to prove that one as it could have happened during the 400 mile delivery drive.
Not playing it down but might not be a serious as you first think... but you could get it re-tested and / or independently assessed?
Is all this kerfuffle because there are two locking nuts missing? Maybe the locking nut key was damaged and the garage that did the brakes couldn't get enough torque on them they may have wound out. An MOT station that issued a fail for brakes aren't going to then pass the car with missing wheel bolts so logic would dictate that have worked loose. Not ideal but just remove the other lock nuts and replace them. Puncture is nothing to do with anyone else.
Seems like a pretty small thing to create loads of stress for yourself over. Cars are imperfect things I'm assuming it's not a brand new car? The supplying dealer have cleared the MOT issues so are clearly trying to do the job right I suspect you have a good car there so just calm down and replace the bolts.
Seems like a pretty small thing to create loads of stress for yourself over. Cars are imperfect things I'm assuming it's not a brand new car? The supplying dealer have cleared the MOT issues so are clearly trying to do the job right I suspect you have a good car there so just calm down and replace the bolts.
this is my username said:
Just to clarify - is the bolt "missing" as in there is no bolt at all there, or is there a bolt but it is not a locking one?
As a new user I'm unable to post images in the forum for 14 days.However, to verify - two wheel bolts are completely missing (one from either wheel). It is currently operating with three out of four bolts on. A third has snapped within the thread of another wheel.
There is no locking nut but the biggest concern is the absence of two bolts and one that is snapped inside. The third one makes a repair more problematic.
I have a pre-sale video (done days before the MOT) that show the bolts weren't present. I did not notice this until after the fact. I also have delivery images that now show the bolts were not present after it was driven 400 miles to get to me. If, indeed, the car didn't have bolts during the entirety of that journey was it a safe trip? What other damage could have been caused to the car?
It was delivered 24 hours after an MOT that did not mention the absence of wheel bolts, which are classed as a 'Major dangerous' in the MOT manual.
My concern is, if the car has wrongly passed an MOT without having the wheels properly attached then what else has been missed? I have actioned a full independent assessment and the car is off road, untouched until that point as it is not roadworthy.
Sounds to me like it had all the locking wheel nuts at the start but no key to them. To get it through an MOT (replacing the brakes) they have to remove some of the wheels so broke 2 of the nuts getting them out, and broke the third without removing it.
If the MOT was in the same garage, they might have just issued the cert rather than doing a full test knowing that the work was done by themselves. The tester wouldn't then get a chance to see the mechanic didn't replace the bolts.
End of the day its a pretty minor thing with a second hand car and can be sorted easily enough with a set of 4 bolts?
If the MOT was in the same garage, they might have just issued the cert rather than doing a full test knowing that the work was done by themselves. The tester wouldn't then get a chance to see the mechanic didn't replace the bolts.
End of the day its a pretty minor thing with a second hand car and can be sorted easily enough with a set of 4 bolts?
Nivelinn11 said:
this is my username said:
Just to clarify - is the bolt "missing" as in there is no bolt at all there, or is there a bolt but it is not a locking one?
As a new user I'm unable to post images in the forum for 14 days.However, to verify - two wheel bolts are completely missing (one from either wheel). It is currently operating with three out of four bolts on. A third has snapped within the thread of another wheel.
There is no locking nut but the biggest concern is the absence of two bolts and one that is snapped inside. The third one makes a repair more problematic.
I have a pre-sale video (done days before the MOT) that show the bolts weren't present. I did not notice this until after the fact. I also have delivery images that now show the bolts were not present after it was driven 400 miles to get to me. If, indeed, the car didn't have bolts during the entirety of that journey was it a safe trip? What other damage could have been caused to the car?
It was delivered 24 hours after an MOT that did not mention the absence of wheel bolts, which are classed as a 'Major dangerous' in the MOT manual.
My concern is, if the car has wrongly passed an MOT without having the wheels properly attached then what else has been missed? I have actioned a full independent assessment and the car is off road, untouched until that point as it is not roadworthy.
Magicmushroom666 said:
Sounds to me like it had all the locking wheel nuts at the start but no key to them. To get it through an MOT (replacing the brakes) they have to remove some of the wheels so broke 2 of the nuts getting them out, and broke the third without removing it.
If the MOT was in the same garage, they might have just issued the cert rather than doing a full test knowing that the work was done by themselves. The tester wouldn't then get a chance to see the mechanic didn't replace the bolts.
End of the day its a pretty minor thing with a second hand car and can be sorted easily enough with a set of 4 bolts?
I get this and I'm not suggesting the car is a write-off. I am, however, concerned that someone (at some point) was aware the car was operating minus three bolts and it was allowed to be driven 400 miles to me without it being mentioned. Isn't there a chance that this put the driver and others at real danger on the motorway or any other road?If the MOT was in the same garage, they might have just issued the cert rather than doing a full test knowing that the work was done by themselves. The tester wouldn't then get a chance to see the mechanic didn't replace the bolts.
End of the day its a pretty minor thing with a second hand car and can be sorted easily enough with a set of 4 bolts?
The fact the bolts were also missing in the video I had prior to any MOT does also cause me concern. I also think for such a simple fix (on paper) why wasn't it done? What other potential bigger issues exist?
An independent assessment will uncover that.
Dan W. said:
Just ask for the full refund, I think you will never be happy with the car after this and rightly so.
I have asked for a full refund and been told they wish to deduct:a) Admin fee
b) delivery charge
c) warranty cost
They have also advised I should pay for the cost of return of the vehicle.
Nivelinn11 said:
Dan W. said:
Just ask for the full refund, I think you will never be happy with the car after this and rightly so.
I have asked for a full refund and been told they wish to deduct:a) Admin fee
b) delivery charge
c) warranty cost
They have also advised I should pay for the cost of return of the vehicle.
I believe the only thing they can ask is that you get the car back to them. we have had this on a used car and speaking from a dealership here
Dan W. said:
They can wish all they like
I believe the only thing they can ask is that you get the car back to them. we have had this on a used car and speaking from a dealership here
Yes I've checked my rights and don't believe they are entitled to do this in the first 30 days with a trader. I'm rejecting it on the basis that I don't feel it was delivered in a roadworthy condition - not for any cosmetic purposes or a change of mind. It's actually a lot more hassle to consider rejecting it than it seems worth but I am concerned that deeper issues lie beneath with this car.I believe the only thing they can ask is that you get the car back to them. we have had this on a used car and speaking from a dealership here
They also claim they wish to deduct costs per mile the car has covered since sale. The vast majority were done via delivery.
Nivelinn11 said:
Dan W. said:
Just ask for the full refund, I think you will never be happy with the car after this and rightly so.
I have asked for a full refund and been told they wish to deduct:a) Admin fee
b) delivery charge
c) warranty cost
They have also advised I should pay for the cost of return of the vehicle.
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/w...
https://www.businesscompanion.info/focus/car-trade...
Thank you. The links and comments are very useful.
The garage also promised in the advert the car came with a nationwide three-month warranty. There was no paperwork for this so when I asked for it at the point of citing the issue they went quiet.
Two days later I received an email direct from the warranty company. The warranty had been taken out - with additional extras for wear and tear - that day.
The garage also promised in the advert the car came with a nationwide three-month warranty. There was no paperwork for this so when I asked for it at the point of citing the issue they went quiet.
Two days later I received an email direct from the warranty company. The warranty had been taken out - with additional extras for wear and tear - that day.
Magicmushroom666 said:
End of the day it’s a pretty minor thing with a second hand car and can be sorted easily enough with a set of 4 bolts?
Wheels have a specific number of bolts (3, 4, 5 etc depending on the car and wheel/hub).A car with a missing bolt on 2 wheels and a broken one on another is emphatically not a ‘minor thing’ and it would fail an MOT (and possibly a roadside police check) immediately as a dangerous fault.
A few scratches fine. Missing wheel bolts, no.
Nivelinn11 said:
Dan W. said:
Just ask for the full refund, I think you will never be happy with the car after this and rightly so.
I have asked for a full refund and been told they wish to deduct:a) Admin fee
b) delivery charge
c) warranty cost
They have also advised I should pay for the cost of return of the vehicle.
ChevronB19 said:
Wheels have a specific number of bolts (3, 4, 5 etc depending on the car and wheel/hub).
A car with a missing bolt on 2 wheels and a broken one on another is emphatically not a ‘minor thing’ and it would fail an MOT (and possibly a roadside police check) immediately as a dangerous fault.
A few scratches fine. Missing wheel bolts, no.
Yes this is why I'm a bit surprised that some people are minimising it. The car travelled 400 miles with this issue to get to me and seemingly passed an MOT 24 hours earlier.A car with a missing bolt on 2 wheels and a broken one on another is emphatically not a ‘minor thing’ and it would fail an MOT (and possibly a roadside police check) immediately as a dangerous fault.
A few scratches fine. Missing wheel bolts, no.
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