Panamera Turbo vs M5
Discussion
I'm trying to weigh up the next set of wheels... probs be a few months now and admittedly have not yet driven either of these...
2019 ish panamera turbo or 2020 ish F90 M5... i need back seats as have kids. Need a boot (maybe the sport tourer porsche would be the one that works better for me).
The porsche looks more of an event to own and drive, but i could probably afford a slightly newer BMW. The BMW can be made to be a fair bit quicker, but it's still a 5 series (I know, but interior wise etc.). I'd be interested in a turbo S porsche but there are very few around and I am not sure I can afford.
anyone got any interesting factoids for comparison please? ta
2019 ish panamera turbo or 2020 ish F90 M5... i need back seats as have kids. Need a boot (maybe the sport tourer porsche would be the one that works better for me).
The porsche looks more of an event to own and drive, but i could probably afford a slightly newer BMW. The BMW can be made to be a fair bit quicker, but it's still a 5 series (I know, but interior wise etc.). I'd be interested in a turbo S porsche but there are very few around and I am not sure I can afford.
anyone got any interesting factoids for comparison please? ta
Blown...I am your man when it comes to this comparison.
I'm on my third Panamera (two GTS Sport Turismo and now a Turbo hatch, all 2019 vintage), and I've had 2 F90 M5's and the M5 generation before that. I've had a couple of RS6's (C7 and latest C8 in between). And I've had a number of SUV's from Cayenne to X6 M and GLE63S.
Jeez, where to start?!
Firstly, for us (with five year old twins) the boot in the M5 or Panamera is sufficient - they're not luxuriously spacious, but fine for us. The boot length in the Panamera hatch or Sport Turismo is identical (even takes the same boot carpet), with only height above the window line (right at the back) being marginally better in the Sport Turismo. Both RS6's were the most practical, beating even the SUV's IMO but as I say, I haven't yet really missed the boot space, but then we tend not to carry loads of stuff and all cars take at least three large suitcases for holidays.
Secondly, any of the non-SUV's are MILES better to drive than any of the SUV's - somewhat obvious perhaps, but I really don't get why everyone wants an SUV when genuinely, they drive quite unsophisticatedly in comparison. If you appreciate driving and you don't want a truck-like bouncy ride in comparison (even in the Cayenne) then buy a car. Note; I'm not really saying these kind of SUV's feel like trucks, but in comparison they have a certain truck-like bounciness that you just don't get in the cars.
My first family 'car' after the last SUV (the GLE63S) was a C7 RS6 and that was fab - perhaps not a drivers car, but it had this luxurious solidity both on the road and in terms of build quality that made it just a very nice thing to punt about in. I liked that car a lot and initially thought I'd made a mistake when I upgraded it to an M5 Competition...but the M5 grew on me and I kept it a whole year (I rarely keep cars that long...the RS6 did well at 10 months and I really liked it!).
There was little not to like about the M5, materially better in every way compared to the F10 version (I actually had the F13 M6, but same thing really). It was stupendously fast, very refined, extremely well made (I'm a very fussy f*cker yet it never went into the dealer until it needed new tyres), looked great in Marina Bay Blue, had the most awesome sound system with the Bowers and Wilkins upgrade and it was pretty good dynamically, if very firm riding.
I'd always wanted a Panamera but they were always a bit rich for my liking but I ended up relenting and changed the M5 for an ex-demo 2019 Panamera GTS Sport Turismo...and jeez, I never looked back. I'd test driven a Panamera 4S diesel a few years prior and was super impressed, however that was before kids so I didn't need a car like that but, getting out of the M5 into the Panamera was eye opening. It was (much) slower, and perhaps a bit less refined (they do suffer quite a bit of road noise compared to the best, and the M5 was very good). But in terms of interior ambience, feel-good factor and dynamics, it was another league - seriously, the Panamera (admittedly with PDCC and 4WS fitted) was supremely comfortable in a way the M5 never was, yet it had body control that was other worldly by comparison. It's not as 'sporty' in feel as the M5, it's more of a luxury car, but it's got that Porsche DNA so things from the perfect driving position, control (especially steering) feel and weights and the sheer unflappable nature...well, there is a chasm between the Porsche and the BMW (and remember, the BMW is still exceedingly good).
Two years on I still had the thing!! I was by then hankering after the new shape C8 RS6, having fond memories of the C7 but toyed for months on what to do. Eventually in December 2021 I relented and swapped the Panamera for an RS6 Vorsprung. I kid you not, I drive it home and said to my wife 'WTF have I done'...and I continued to regret that decision every time I drove it. It's not like it was a bad car, and perhaps I was seeing the C7 with rose tinted spec's, but in some respects (like build quality and the stupid touch screens) it felt a backwards step from the C7. After the M5 and Panamera it really felt a backwards step in every single way, but especially in terms of body control - noting the Vorsprung has their hydraulic diagonally interlinked suspension, it was a lurching mess after the Panamera. Shouldn't be a surprise really - just look at video's of them where the levels of pitch and roll are very noticeable for a modern car.
Anyway, you didn't ask about RS6's but suffice to say that in January 2022, six weeks after purchase, the RS6 was gone and my second Panamera GTS was on the drive. Sadly this one was not great because it stunk of fags (something that was initially masked by the Porsche dealer I bought it from, and I could not get rid of the smell) so I sold it after about two months and with no others on the market, I went back to another F90 M5 CP. And to be honest, unlike the second RS6 experience the M5 still felt good and competitive after the Panamera...even better in some ways like performance, refinement and agility.
But I couldn't shake off the Panamera bug and a few months later the unicorn spec car on the market for a decent price (PCCB's, PDCC, 4WS and Burmester...ALL the big ticket options) and I snapped it up...a Turbo this time (which actually doesn't feel a huge amount quicker than the GTS because it only gives the extra 90bhp above 5k rpm). I won't got through all the comparison points again but it's fair to say when I got the Panamera on an undulating country road the day after I traded the M5 for it, I literally laughed out loud on how good the body control was compared to the M5, which immediately highlighted the M5 as a both less comfortable, more bouncy and harsh and with notably more body roll (the Panamera's lack of body roll is quite something, and rather than make it feel sportier, it just makes it more pleasant and comfortable feeling). I do notice that even with near-£6k's worth of Burmester, the still doesn't sound as good as the BMW's B&W (Porsche stick the sub in the boot, where BMW's approach of putting two of them under the front seats is much more effective).
Nearly a year on, I still have the Turbo today although unlike my last two Panamera's it's been far from fault free - I'm fighting Porsche on a creaking suspension arm and a squeaky, inconsistent feeling brake pedal, which has highlighted that the Porsche approved used warranty is far from bulletproof.
Anyway, an important fact about both cars which might explain the above. The M5 is ultimately a go-faster 5-series, a car fundamentally made to a lower price point. The Panamera is the only other car build on the Bentley Continental GT platform and that is how it feels...engineered to a different level. It things like having the 8-speed PDK vs the generic ZF auto's in everything else, it has a bespoke V8 engine (not the same as the V8's in other VW group models apart from the Bentley, something to do with the fitment to the chassis or gearbox) and it has the Bentley's over-engineered three chamber air suspension (I'm not sure any other cars have this, most have one or two but it's one of the reasons the suspension is so good).
In short, the M5 is a superb and very sporty car, and miles better than the RS6 (and probably any other normal competitor). The Panamera is definitely less sporty feeling but, to me, it's a much more special, luxurious and competent feeling car...I'd say, one of the most underrated cars I've experienced.
The Panamera also has significantly more presence on the road - the second generation is just a good looking design to me (perhaps not as good as a Taycan, but it's a different size), whereas the M5 is relatively ordinary due to it's similarity to a regular 5 series (which I get - that's meant to be the point).
I'm on my third Panamera (two GTS Sport Turismo and now a Turbo hatch, all 2019 vintage), and I've had 2 F90 M5's and the M5 generation before that. I've had a couple of RS6's (C7 and latest C8 in between). And I've had a number of SUV's from Cayenne to X6 M and GLE63S.
Jeez, where to start?!
Firstly, for us (with five year old twins) the boot in the M5 or Panamera is sufficient - they're not luxuriously spacious, but fine for us. The boot length in the Panamera hatch or Sport Turismo is identical (even takes the same boot carpet), with only height above the window line (right at the back) being marginally better in the Sport Turismo. Both RS6's were the most practical, beating even the SUV's IMO but as I say, I haven't yet really missed the boot space, but then we tend not to carry loads of stuff and all cars take at least three large suitcases for holidays.
Secondly, any of the non-SUV's are MILES better to drive than any of the SUV's - somewhat obvious perhaps, but I really don't get why everyone wants an SUV when genuinely, they drive quite unsophisticatedly in comparison. If you appreciate driving and you don't want a truck-like bouncy ride in comparison (even in the Cayenne) then buy a car. Note; I'm not really saying these kind of SUV's feel like trucks, but in comparison they have a certain truck-like bounciness that you just don't get in the cars.
My first family 'car' after the last SUV (the GLE63S) was a C7 RS6 and that was fab - perhaps not a drivers car, but it had this luxurious solidity both on the road and in terms of build quality that made it just a very nice thing to punt about in. I liked that car a lot and initially thought I'd made a mistake when I upgraded it to an M5 Competition...but the M5 grew on me and I kept it a whole year (I rarely keep cars that long...the RS6 did well at 10 months and I really liked it!).
There was little not to like about the M5, materially better in every way compared to the F10 version (I actually had the F13 M6, but same thing really). It was stupendously fast, very refined, extremely well made (I'm a very fussy f*cker yet it never went into the dealer until it needed new tyres), looked great in Marina Bay Blue, had the most awesome sound system with the Bowers and Wilkins upgrade and it was pretty good dynamically, if very firm riding.
I'd always wanted a Panamera but they were always a bit rich for my liking but I ended up relenting and changed the M5 for an ex-demo 2019 Panamera GTS Sport Turismo...and jeez, I never looked back. I'd test driven a Panamera 4S diesel a few years prior and was super impressed, however that was before kids so I didn't need a car like that but, getting out of the M5 into the Panamera was eye opening. It was (much) slower, and perhaps a bit less refined (they do suffer quite a bit of road noise compared to the best, and the M5 was very good). But in terms of interior ambience, feel-good factor and dynamics, it was another league - seriously, the Panamera (admittedly with PDCC and 4WS fitted) was supremely comfortable in a way the M5 never was, yet it had body control that was other worldly by comparison. It's not as 'sporty' in feel as the M5, it's more of a luxury car, but it's got that Porsche DNA so things from the perfect driving position, control (especially steering) feel and weights and the sheer unflappable nature...well, there is a chasm between the Porsche and the BMW (and remember, the BMW is still exceedingly good).
Two years on I still had the thing!! I was by then hankering after the new shape C8 RS6, having fond memories of the C7 but toyed for months on what to do. Eventually in December 2021 I relented and swapped the Panamera for an RS6 Vorsprung. I kid you not, I drive it home and said to my wife 'WTF have I done'...and I continued to regret that decision every time I drove it. It's not like it was a bad car, and perhaps I was seeing the C7 with rose tinted spec's, but in some respects (like build quality and the stupid touch screens) it felt a backwards step from the C7. After the M5 and Panamera it really felt a backwards step in every single way, but especially in terms of body control - noting the Vorsprung has their hydraulic diagonally interlinked suspension, it was a lurching mess after the Panamera. Shouldn't be a surprise really - just look at video's of them where the levels of pitch and roll are very noticeable for a modern car.
Anyway, you didn't ask about RS6's but suffice to say that in January 2022, six weeks after purchase, the RS6 was gone and my second Panamera GTS was on the drive. Sadly this one was not great because it stunk of fags (something that was initially masked by the Porsche dealer I bought it from, and I could not get rid of the smell) so I sold it after about two months and with no others on the market, I went back to another F90 M5 CP. And to be honest, unlike the second RS6 experience the M5 still felt good and competitive after the Panamera...even better in some ways like performance, refinement and agility.
But I couldn't shake off the Panamera bug and a few months later the unicorn spec car on the market for a decent price (PCCB's, PDCC, 4WS and Burmester...ALL the big ticket options) and I snapped it up...a Turbo this time (which actually doesn't feel a huge amount quicker than the GTS because it only gives the extra 90bhp above 5k rpm). I won't got through all the comparison points again but it's fair to say when I got the Panamera on an undulating country road the day after I traded the M5 for it, I literally laughed out loud on how good the body control was compared to the M5, which immediately highlighted the M5 as a both less comfortable, more bouncy and harsh and with notably more body roll (the Panamera's lack of body roll is quite something, and rather than make it feel sportier, it just makes it more pleasant and comfortable feeling). I do notice that even with near-£6k's worth of Burmester, the still doesn't sound as good as the BMW's B&W (Porsche stick the sub in the boot, where BMW's approach of putting two of them under the front seats is much more effective).
Nearly a year on, I still have the Turbo today although unlike my last two Panamera's it's been far from fault free - I'm fighting Porsche on a creaking suspension arm and a squeaky, inconsistent feeling brake pedal, which has highlighted that the Porsche approved used warranty is far from bulletproof.
Anyway, an important fact about both cars which might explain the above. The M5 is ultimately a go-faster 5-series, a car fundamentally made to a lower price point. The Panamera is the only other car build on the Bentley Continental GT platform and that is how it feels...engineered to a different level. It things like having the 8-speed PDK vs the generic ZF auto's in everything else, it has a bespoke V8 engine (not the same as the V8's in other VW group models apart from the Bentley, something to do with the fitment to the chassis or gearbox) and it has the Bentley's over-engineered three chamber air suspension (I'm not sure any other cars have this, most have one or two but it's one of the reasons the suspension is so good).
In short, the M5 is a superb and very sporty car, and miles better than the RS6 (and probably any other normal competitor). The Panamera is definitely less sporty feeling but, to me, it's a much more special, luxurious and competent feeling car...I'd say, one of the most underrated cars I've experienced.
The Panamera also has significantly more presence on the road - the second generation is just a good looking design to me (perhaps not as good as a Taycan, but it's a different size), whereas the M5 is relatively ordinary due to it's similarity to a regular 5 series (which I get - that's meant to be the point).
I'm not sure if even bother looking at the M5. The sport tourismo is a nice looming car and the cabin is different world to the M5 which at the end of the day has the 518D minicab interior but somehow you're expected to pay all that money have to pretend it's not just a little bit s
tty every time to get in. It doesn't really matter what BMW do to their really good, performance cars they just can't hide that reality that it's a generic, mass produced, discount fleet car underneath. I always think M cars need leaving for at least 10 years to mature and become appealing.
An over harsh assessment of a great car but the Panamera is just worth the extra money.
tty every time to get in. It doesn't really matter what BMW do to their really good, performance cars they just can't hide that reality that it's a generic, mass produced, discount fleet car underneath. I always think M cars need leaving for at least 10 years to mature and become appealing. An over harsh assessment of a great car but the Panamera is just worth the extra money.
mine are similar age we just launch everything in the boot and off we go 
.Palmball said:
Blown...I am your man when it comes to this comparison.
I'm on my third Panamera (two GTS Sport Turismo and now a Turbo hatch, all 2019 vintage), and I've had 2 F90 M5's and the M5 generation before that. I've had a couple of RS6's (C7 and latest C8 in between). And I've had a number of SUV's from Cayenne to X6 M and GLE63S.
Jeez, where to start?!
Firstly, for us (with five year old twins) the boot in the M5 or Panamera is sufficient - they're not luxuriously spacious, but fine for us. The boot length in the Panamera hatch or Sport Turismo is identical (even takes the same boot carpet), with only height above the window line (right at the back) being marginally better in the Sport Turismo. Both RS6's were the most practical, beating even the SUV's IMO but as I say, I haven't yet really missed the boot space, but then we tend not to carry loads of stuff and all cars take at least three large suitcases for holidays.
Secondly, any of the non-SUV's are MILES better to drive than any of the SUV's - somewhat obvious perhaps, but I really don't get why everyone wants an SUV when genuinely, they drive quite unsophisticatedly in comparison. If you appreciate driving and you don't want a truck-like bouncy ride in comparison (even in the Cayenne) then buy a car. Note; I'm not really saying these kind of SUV's feel like trucks, but in comparison they have a certain truck-like bounciness that you just don't get in the cars.
My first family 'car' after the last SUV (the GLE63S) was a C7 RS6 and that was fab - perhaps not a drivers car, but it had this luxurious solidity both on the road and in terms of build quality that made it just a very nice thing to punt about in. I liked that car a lot and initially thought I'd made a mistake when I upgraded it to an M5 Competition...but the M5 grew on me and I kept it a whole year (I rarely keep cars that long...the RS6 did well at 10 months and I really liked it!).
There was little not to like about the M5, materially better in every way compared to the F10 version (I actually had the F13 M6, but same thing really). It was stupendously fast, very refined, extremely well made (I'm a very fussy f*cker yet it never went into the dealer until it needed new tyres), looked great in Marina Bay Blue, had the most awesome sound system with the Bowers and Wilkins upgrade and it was pretty good dynamically, if very firm riding.
I'd always wanted a Panamera but they were always a bit rich for my liking but I ended up relenting and changed the M5 for an ex-demo 2019 Panamera GTS Sport Turismo...and jeez, I never looked back. I'd test driven a Panamera 4S diesel a few years prior and was super impressed, however that was before kids so I didn't need a car like that but, getting out of the M5 into the Panamera was eye opening. It was (much) slower, and perhaps a bit less refined (they do suffer quite a bit of road noise compared to the best, and the M5 was very good). But in terms of interior ambience, feel-good factor and dynamics, it was another league - seriously, the Panamera (admittedly with PDCC and 4WS fitted) was supremely comfortable in a way the M5 never was, yet it had body control that was other worldly by comparison. It's not as 'sporty' in feel as the M5, it's more of a luxury car, but it's got that Porsche DNA so things from the perfect driving position, control (especially steering) feel and weights and the sheer unflappable nature...well, there is a chasm between the Porsche and the BMW (and remember, the BMW is still exceedingly good).
Two years on I still had the thing!! I was by then hankering after the new shape C8 RS6, having fond memories of the C7 but toyed for months on what to do. Eventually in December 2021 I relented and swapped the Panamera for an RS6 Vorsprung. I kid you not, I drive it home and said to my wife 'WTF have I done'...and I continued to regret that decision every time I drove it. It's not like it was a bad car, and perhaps I was seeing the C7 with rose tinted spec's, but in some respects (like build quality and the stupid touch screens) it felt a backwards step from the C7. After the M5 and Panamera it really felt a backwards step in every single way, but especially in terms of body control - noting the Vorsprung has their hydraulic diagonally interlinked suspension, it was a lurching mess after the Panamera. Shouldn't be a surprise really - just look at video's of them where the levels of pitch and roll are very noticeable for a modern car.
Anyway, you didn't ask about RS6's but suffice to say that in January 2022, six weeks after purchase, the RS6 was gone and my second Panamera GTS was on the drive. Sadly this one was not great because it stunk of fags (something that was initially masked by the Porsche dealer I bought it from, and I could not get rid of the smell) so I sold it after about two months and with no others on the market, I went back to another F90 M5 CP. And to be honest, unlike the second RS6 experience the M5 still felt good and competitive after the Panamera...even better in some ways like performance, refinement and agility.
But I couldn't shake off the Panamera bug and a few months later the unicorn spec car on the market for a decent price (PCCB's, PDCC, 4WS and Burmester...ALL the big ticket options) and I snapped it up...a Turbo this time (which actually doesn't feel a huge amount quicker than the GTS because it only gives the extra 90bhp above 5k rpm). I won't got through all the comparison points again but it's fair to say when I got the Panamera on an undulating country road the day after I traded the M5 for it, I literally laughed out loud on how good the body control was compared to the M5, which immediately highlighted the M5 as a both less comfortable, more bouncy and harsh and with notably more body roll (the Panamera's lack of body roll is quite something, and rather than make it feel sportier, it just makes it more pleasant and comfortable feeling). I do notice that even with near-£6k's worth of Burmester, the still doesn't sound as good as the BMW's B&W (Porsche stick the sub in the boot, where BMW's approach of putting two of them under the front seats is much more effective).
Nearly a year on, I still have the Turbo today although unlike my last two Panamera's it's been far from fault free - I'm fighting Porsche on a creaking suspension arm and a squeaky, inconsistent feeling brake pedal, which has highlighted that the Porsche approved used warranty is far from bulletproof.
Anyway, an important fact about both cars which might explain the above. The M5 is ultimately a go-faster 5-series, a car fundamentally made to a lower price point. The Panamera is the only other car build on the Bentley Continental GT platform and that is how it feels...engineered to a different level. It things like having the 8-speed PDK vs the generic ZF auto's in everything else, it has a bespoke V8 engine (not the same as the V8's in other VW group models apart from the Bentley, something to do with the fitment to the chassis or gearbox) and it has the Bentley's over-engineered three chamber air suspension (I'm not sure any other cars have this, most have one or two but it's one of the reasons the suspension is so good).
In short, the M5 is a superb and very sporty car, and miles better than the RS6 (and probably any other normal competitor). The Panamera is definitely less sporty feeling but, to me, it's a much more special, luxurious and competent feeling car...I'd say, one of the most underrated cars I've experienced.
The Panamera also has significantly more presence on the road - the second generation is just a good looking design to me (perhaps not as good as a Taycan, but it's a different size), whereas the M5 is relatively ordinary due to it's similarity to a regular 5 series (which I get - that's meant to be the point).
Super detailed, impressive writeupI'm on my third Panamera (two GTS Sport Turismo and now a Turbo hatch, all 2019 vintage), and I've had 2 F90 M5's and the M5 generation before that. I've had a couple of RS6's (C7 and latest C8 in between). And I've had a number of SUV's from Cayenne to X6 M and GLE63S.
Jeez, where to start?!
Firstly, for us (with five year old twins) the boot in the M5 or Panamera is sufficient - they're not luxuriously spacious, but fine for us. The boot length in the Panamera hatch or Sport Turismo is identical (even takes the same boot carpet), with only height above the window line (right at the back) being marginally better in the Sport Turismo. Both RS6's were the most practical, beating even the SUV's IMO but as I say, I haven't yet really missed the boot space, but then we tend not to carry loads of stuff and all cars take at least three large suitcases for holidays.
Secondly, any of the non-SUV's are MILES better to drive than any of the SUV's - somewhat obvious perhaps, but I really don't get why everyone wants an SUV when genuinely, they drive quite unsophisticatedly in comparison. If you appreciate driving and you don't want a truck-like bouncy ride in comparison (even in the Cayenne) then buy a car. Note; I'm not really saying these kind of SUV's feel like trucks, but in comparison they have a certain truck-like bounciness that you just don't get in the cars.
My first family 'car' after the last SUV (the GLE63S) was a C7 RS6 and that was fab - perhaps not a drivers car, but it had this luxurious solidity both on the road and in terms of build quality that made it just a very nice thing to punt about in. I liked that car a lot and initially thought I'd made a mistake when I upgraded it to an M5 Competition...but the M5 grew on me and I kept it a whole year (I rarely keep cars that long...the RS6 did well at 10 months and I really liked it!).
There was little not to like about the M5, materially better in every way compared to the F10 version (I actually had the F13 M6, but same thing really). It was stupendously fast, very refined, extremely well made (I'm a very fussy f*cker yet it never went into the dealer until it needed new tyres), looked great in Marina Bay Blue, had the most awesome sound system with the Bowers and Wilkins upgrade and it was pretty good dynamically, if very firm riding.
I'd always wanted a Panamera but they were always a bit rich for my liking but I ended up relenting and changed the M5 for an ex-demo 2019 Panamera GTS Sport Turismo...and jeez, I never looked back. I'd test driven a Panamera 4S diesel a few years prior and was super impressed, however that was before kids so I didn't need a car like that but, getting out of the M5 into the Panamera was eye opening. It was (much) slower, and perhaps a bit less refined (they do suffer quite a bit of road noise compared to the best, and the M5 was very good). But in terms of interior ambience, feel-good factor and dynamics, it was another league - seriously, the Panamera (admittedly with PDCC and 4WS fitted) was supremely comfortable in a way the M5 never was, yet it had body control that was other worldly by comparison. It's not as 'sporty' in feel as the M5, it's more of a luxury car, but it's got that Porsche DNA so things from the perfect driving position, control (especially steering) feel and weights and the sheer unflappable nature...well, there is a chasm between the Porsche and the BMW (and remember, the BMW is still exceedingly good).
Two years on I still had the thing!! I was by then hankering after the new shape C8 RS6, having fond memories of the C7 but toyed for months on what to do. Eventually in December 2021 I relented and swapped the Panamera for an RS6 Vorsprung. I kid you not, I drive it home and said to my wife 'WTF have I done'...and I continued to regret that decision every time I drove it. It's not like it was a bad car, and perhaps I was seeing the C7 with rose tinted spec's, but in some respects (like build quality and the stupid touch screens) it felt a backwards step from the C7. After the M5 and Panamera it really felt a backwards step in every single way, but especially in terms of body control - noting the Vorsprung has their hydraulic diagonally interlinked suspension, it was a lurching mess after the Panamera. Shouldn't be a surprise really - just look at video's of them where the levels of pitch and roll are very noticeable for a modern car.
Anyway, you didn't ask about RS6's but suffice to say that in January 2022, six weeks after purchase, the RS6 was gone and my second Panamera GTS was on the drive. Sadly this one was not great because it stunk of fags (something that was initially masked by the Porsche dealer I bought it from, and I could not get rid of the smell) so I sold it after about two months and with no others on the market, I went back to another F90 M5 CP. And to be honest, unlike the second RS6 experience the M5 still felt good and competitive after the Panamera...even better in some ways like performance, refinement and agility.
But I couldn't shake off the Panamera bug and a few months later the unicorn spec car on the market for a decent price (PCCB's, PDCC, 4WS and Burmester...ALL the big ticket options) and I snapped it up...a Turbo this time (which actually doesn't feel a huge amount quicker than the GTS because it only gives the extra 90bhp above 5k rpm). I won't got through all the comparison points again but it's fair to say when I got the Panamera on an undulating country road the day after I traded the M5 for it, I literally laughed out loud on how good the body control was compared to the M5, which immediately highlighted the M5 as a both less comfortable, more bouncy and harsh and with notably more body roll (the Panamera's lack of body roll is quite something, and rather than make it feel sportier, it just makes it more pleasant and comfortable feeling). I do notice that even with near-£6k's worth of Burmester, the still doesn't sound as good as the BMW's B&W (Porsche stick the sub in the boot, where BMW's approach of putting two of them under the front seats is much more effective).
Nearly a year on, I still have the Turbo today although unlike my last two Panamera's it's been far from fault free - I'm fighting Porsche on a creaking suspension arm and a squeaky, inconsistent feeling brake pedal, which has highlighted that the Porsche approved used warranty is far from bulletproof.
Anyway, an important fact about both cars which might explain the above. The M5 is ultimately a go-faster 5-series, a car fundamentally made to a lower price point. The Panamera is the only other car build on the Bentley Continental GT platform and that is how it feels...engineered to a different level. It things like having the 8-speed PDK vs the generic ZF auto's in everything else, it has a bespoke V8 engine (not the same as the V8's in other VW group models apart from the Bentley, something to do with the fitment to the chassis or gearbox) and it has the Bentley's over-engineered three chamber air suspension (I'm not sure any other cars have this, most have one or two but it's one of the reasons the suspension is so good).
In short, the M5 is a superb and very sporty car, and miles better than the RS6 (and probably any other normal competitor). The Panamera is definitely less sporty feeling but, to me, it's a much more special, luxurious and competent feeling car...I'd say, one of the most underrated cars I've experienced.
The Panamera also has significantly more presence on the road - the second generation is just a good looking design to me (perhaps not as good as a Taycan, but it's a different size), whereas the M5 is relatively ordinary due to it's similarity to a regular 5 series (which I get - that's meant to be the point).
How much do you normally lose when buying a car and selling shortly after (at some point you mention 2 months)?
DonkeyApple said:
Blown2CV said:
no thanks! They're 6 and 4 I know how much space they need but cheers
Dear Lord!!!! The brutality. Your children are being forced to grow up without the appropriate enormous buggy system. They'll be shunned by society. Is this not a matter for Social Services?
with associated soft toys and dolls, Ive got 2 bikes, 3 scooters (youngest is going from two front wheels to one), all the beach stuff (tent, sand mats towels, umbrella), so skate park/park/beach covered on our weekend adventures!
Palmball said:
Blown...I am your man when it comes to this comparison...
that is absolutely the sort of thing i was looking for! Thanks v much for such a detailed write-up. I think I kind of was wondering lots of the same there so it's good to hear it kind of confirmed. I guess I need to drive them at least. On the RS6 I did consider. I've had a S8 previously... I tend to think it might just be a bit... uneventful? I guess that might also be what you're saying. Super effective cars I am sure but not really an itch that needs scratching for me. Gigamoons said:
I’ve not got the firsthand knowledge of palmball, but I’d be test driving an E63S.
I've just come out of a 'breathed upon' C63S estate and whilst it was amazing, and the E63S I am sure even more so, i think the E63S would be just a bit too close to what I had before. They're also a lot rarer and more money...DonkeyApple said:
I'm not sure if even bother looking at the M5. The sport tourismo is a nice looming car and the cabin is different world to the M5 which at the end of the day has the 518D minicab interior but somehow you're expected to pay all that money have to pretend it's not just a little bit stty every time to get in. It doesn't really matter what BMW do to their really good, performance cars they just can't hide that reality that it's a generic, mass produced, discount fleet car underneath. I always think M cars need leaving for at least 10 years to mature and become appealing.
An over harsh assessment of a great car but the Panamera is just worth the extra money.
no that's exactly the sort of thing I was concerned about so not too harsh. Thanks for commenting. I also just don't think I am a BMW guy. I had a 3 series a few cars back as a stopgap and I just remember sitting in it and thinking... i mean it's all fine and nice but nothing is where I want it, or works how I am used to... and it just all feels a bit plain. tty every time to get in. It doesn't really matter what BMW do to their really good, performance cars they just can't hide that reality that it's a generic, mass produced, discount fleet car underneath. I always think M cars need leaving for at least 10 years to mature and become appealing. An over harsh assessment of a great car but the Panamera is just worth the extra money.
An incredibly useful post by PalmBall.
OP, I had a similar dilemma, the Panamera Turbo EH, versus an F90C. I went with the F90C as the Panamera left me a bit cold depsite it being beautifully built and a great car.
Subsequently, my entire ownership of the F90C left me a bit cold too, as it was also beautifully built, and so easy to exploit but felt souless - I sold it quite quickly. Then immediately regretted it.
Now, I want an F90C again, but I also still want a Panamera. Not sure if that helps! Also, the answer could be a Rapide S...
OP, I had a similar dilemma, the Panamera Turbo EH, versus an F90C. I went with the F90C as the Panamera left me a bit cold depsite it being beautifully built and a great car.
Subsequently, my entire ownership of the F90C left me a bit cold too, as it was also beautifully built, and so easy to exploit but felt souless - I sold it quite quickly. Then immediately regretted it.
Now, I want an F90C again, but I also still want a Panamera. Not sure if that helps! Also, the answer could be a Rapide S...
The Rapide is a good left field option and a great way to say farewell to the world of V12s. The rear is fine for young children unless they're prone to travel sickness as the view through the front is quite hindered, the boot is more than large enough for scooters, cool boxes and beach tents etc. Not sure if you can stick pushbikes on the top of it?
When my children appeared I made the conscious decision to not let that overly dictate my choice in cars. I bought a 130i BMW hatchback which easily took all their kit and could be taken anywhere easily enough, even the run to the south of France was easy enough with just a roof box added. I did sell the T350 but bought the Typhon for its child transporting abilities and day and weekend trips were all too often done in it as it had plenty of space for a 2+2 and a good sized boot. One of the last trips I did was to Weston S Mare where it easily handled the off-roading on the beach and transporting buckets, coolers and tent etc. In fairness I also had the LSE Overfinch at the time but that was generally the option when the weather didn't look nice or heavy traffic was likely.
The main thing was that with two young children I had a small hatchback, a 2+2 and an SUV that all worked perfectly well for sprogg duties and I got to choose which one to use based on how I felt and what I wanted to drive that day as opposed to having matters dictated by third parties.
I recently had a 340i estate as my general runabout and now have an S4 estate but these weren't choices defined specifically by children but by how the extra boot space tends to be very useful yet they aren't particularly large cars so can still be slung down smaller roads.
I toyed with a Rapide a while back but my youngest was getting car sick at the time and it wouldn't have worked as a result of that. I really liked the Panamera estate but it is too large a car for me, likewise the E63 which appealed just because of its total oikness.
I do like smaller cars though and of the small estates I found the RS4 and C63 took quick to be fun. You're doing genuinely very inappropriate speeds before you start getting the pleasure. I hated the 340. On paper it was great. Straight 6, BMW handling, RWD, real handbrake, real dials but in reality it was an exercise in sensory depravation, you couldn't feel anything through the wheel or hear anything from the brilliant engine and it had been programmed to try and guess what you were about to do which gave a really passive aggressive quality so I binned it. The S4 has been a revelation by comparison. It's dumb so just waits to be asked what to do, no Dunning Kruger misery, you can feel the road through the steering and the power is just right for fun. I also managed to find a good supercharged one which means I can put a tow hitch on it which is always handy.
Many years ago I drove a V10 M5 through France back before they took your car away but just asked for charitable donations. Across the open roads that the Germans so love to use when going to Paris it was unbelievable. A mindnumbingly superb car, just excellent. When I came home I reckoned I was going to buy one so borrowed one for a weekend. It was crap. You were driving this monumental Uber wagon but on British roads with British traffic you were reduced to plodding along almost the whole time and you might as well have just been in a 518D. That's what really brought home the importance of the cabin. If you have a big, powerful car and you have to spend a lot of the time not being able to use it as such it must have a great interior to make it worth while and I think that's where the Panamera scores really well. You might be trundling for an hour at 20mph but you still feel rewarded by the interior comfort and view as minor compensation for not being able to press the pedals.
When my children appeared I made the conscious decision to not let that overly dictate my choice in cars. I bought a 130i BMW hatchback which easily took all their kit and could be taken anywhere easily enough, even the run to the south of France was easy enough with just a roof box added. I did sell the T350 but bought the Typhon for its child transporting abilities and day and weekend trips were all too often done in it as it had plenty of space for a 2+2 and a good sized boot. One of the last trips I did was to Weston S Mare where it easily handled the off-roading on the beach and transporting buckets, coolers and tent etc. In fairness I also had the LSE Overfinch at the time but that was generally the option when the weather didn't look nice or heavy traffic was likely.
The main thing was that with two young children I had a small hatchback, a 2+2 and an SUV that all worked perfectly well for sprogg duties and I got to choose which one to use based on how I felt and what I wanted to drive that day as opposed to having matters dictated by third parties.
I recently had a 340i estate as my general runabout and now have an S4 estate but these weren't choices defined specifically by children but by how the extra boot space tends to be very useful yet they aren't particularly large cars so can still be slung down smaller roads.
I toyed with a Rapide a while back but my youngest was getting car sick at the time and it wouldn't have worked as a result of that. I really liked the Panamera estate but it is too large a car for me, likewise the E63 which appealed just because of its total oikness.
I do like smaller cars though and of the small estates I found the RS4 and C63 took quick to be fun. You're doing genuinely very inappropriate speeds before you start getting the pleasure. I hated the 340. On paper it was great. Straight 6, BMW handling, RWD, real handbrake, real dials but in reality it was an exercise in sensory depravation, you couldn't feel anything through the wheel or hear anything from the brilliant engine and it had been programmed to try and guess what you were about to do which gave a really passive aggressive quality so I binned it. The S4 has been a revelation by comparison. It's dumb so just waits to be asked what to do, no Dunning Kruger misery, you can feel the road through the steering and the power is just right for fun. I also managed to find a good supercharged one which means I can put a tow hitch on it which is always handy.
Many years ago I drove a V10 M5 through France back before they took your car away but just asked for charitable donations. Across the open roads that the Germans so love to use when going to Paris it was unbelievable. A mindnumbingly superb car, just excellent. When I came home I reckoned I was going to buy one so borrowed one for a weekend. It was crap. You were driving this monumental Uber wagon but on British roads with British traffic you were reduced to plodding along almost the whole time and you might as well have just been in a 518D. That's what really brought home the importance of the cabin. If you have a big, powerful car and you have to spend a lot of the time not being able to use it as such it must have a great interior to make it worth while and I think that's where the Panamera scores really well. You might be trundling for an hour at 20mph but you still feel rewarded by the interior comfort and view as minor compensation for not being able to press the pedals.
DonkeyApple said:
Blown2CV said:
no thanks! They're 6 and 4 I know how much space they need but cheers
Dear Lord!!!! The brutality. Your children are being forced to grow up without the appropriate enormous buggy system. They'll be shunned by society. Is this not a matter for Social Services?Owned 2 C7 RS6's, my brother recently picked up an F90 M5 that I've driven, I've driven the E63S and the latest shape Panamera 4S.
The Panamera wins the comfort and luxury feel of any of the cars, though I only drove the 4S it had plenty of grunt and I can see myself buying one in the future.
E63S, drove one with the bucket seats and the ride is just to firm for my liking, I don't think I could manage with one daily with the bucket seats.
F90 M5. Great car, can certainly see the appeal. I would happily own one but its not as comfortable as the Porsche. Porsche interior is a much nicer place to be aswell.
Boot size on all of them are decent, the RS6 boot was huge as expected but the others would suffice for me. I have a 6 and 2yr old.
The one car that I am hankering after is the latest RS7, seems to tick alot of the boxes for you aswell?
The Panamera wins the comfort and luxury feel of any of the cars, though I only drove the 4S it had plenty of grunt and I can see myself buying one in the future.
E63S, drove one with the bucket seats and the ride is just to firm for my liking, I don't think I could manage with one daily with the bucket seats.
F90 M5. Great car, can certainly see the appeal. I would happily own one but its not as comfortable as the Porsche. Porsche interior is a much nicer place to be aswell.
Boot size on all of them are decent, the RS6 boot was huge as expected but the others would suffice for me. I have a 6 and 2yr old.
The one car that I am hankering after is the latest RS7, seems to tick alot of the boxes for you aswell?
I was looking at Astons actually, although DB11... yea i know not really meeting requirements above! I was thinking could I make it work and use the Mrs' car for trips away, would they even fit in the back seats etc. Sadly had to acknowledge that it wasn't going to work, but the rapide I had never thought of!
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