Mechanically Naive - Should I Buy a Modern Classic?
Discussion
I'm nearing 37 years of age and am a big petrolhead, but for the first 37 years my love affair has been predominantly speed-based. Classic cars have never really appealed - I can appreciate a Jaguar E-Type is a nice car, but I have absolutely no desire to own or even drive one.
However, recently I've started noticing cars from my youth - the Sales Rep mobiles my dad drove in the 90s now look more like Italian Exotics in my eyes. The Mondeo, the Vectra, the Laguna... I'm getting steamy just thinking about them.
Recently, due to a young family and rising costs, I've decimated my driveway and bought the two most practical/cheap to run cars I could think of (Skoda Superb + Nissan Leaf), and now I find myself lusting after a weekend car. My original intention was a Subaru Impreza (blobeye) WRX STI, but prices are still a bit toppy and many have not exactly been fastidiously maintained. I've no real experience of spannering, and have only a basic knowledge of what to look for when looking at a used car. I'm no stranger to stupid purchases either (my most recent financial mistake a DS3 Racing), but I'm wondering if a modern classic from the 90s might not be such a terrible idea... Ideally, I'd like to keep cost under £10k to keep the missus from moaning (too much)!
The Alfa 156 GTA, Mondeo ST200, Rover 220 Tomcat and the Vectra GSi top my wishlist - any others I've not thought of?
Where do people find cars like these in a decent condition? (Other than PH classifieds obviously...
)
How did you get into classic car ownership? How often do you use it? What do you do with it? Have you ever regretted it?
As you can see, I'm clearly having some form of mid-life crisis. Although I guess a tatty Mondeo is probably preferable to having an affair...
However, recently I've started noticing cars from my youth - the Sales Rep mobiles my dad drove in the 90s now look more like Italian Exotics in my eyes. The Mondeo, the Vectra, the Laguna... I'm getting steamy just thinking about them.
Recently, due to a young family and rising costs, I've decimated my driveway and bought the two most practical/cheap to run cars I could think of (Skoda Superb + Nissan Leaf), and now I find myself lusting after a weekend car. My original intention was a Subaru Impreza (blobeye) WRX STI, but prices are still a bit toppy and many have not exactly been fastidiously maintained. I've no real experience of spannering, and have only a basic knowledge of what to look for when looking at a used car. I'm no stranger to stupid purchases either (my most recent financial mistake a DS3 Racing), but I'm wondering if a modern classic from the 90s might not be such a terrible idea... Ideally, I'd like to keep cost under £10k to keep the missus from moaning (too much)!
The Alfa 156 GTA, Mondeo ST200, Rover 220 Tomcat and the Vectra GSi top my wishlist - any others I've not thought of?
Where do people find cars like these in a decent condition? (Other than PH classifieds obviously...
)How did you get into classic car ownership? How often do you use it? What do you do with it? Have you ever regretted it?
As you can see, I'm clearly having some form of mid-life crisis. Although I guess a tatty Mondeo is probably preferable to having an affair...
The key would be to pick something that's not purely based on nostalgia but also something which is different enough to your daily drivers that you don't mind the flaws. The Vectra GSI you've listed for example, will probably be less nice to drive, less comfy, thirstier and generally a less nice place to be in than your Skoda. So reality, how often would you pick up the keys to the Vectra in comparison? At which point it becomes a garden ornament.
I have a 986 Boxster S which id class as a modern classic.
How did you get into classic car ownership? I love the look of air cooled Porsches. Knew they were unattainable. 986 was a good balance of affordable to buy, good to drive, easy to drive while looking a bit more classic than the newer boxster or caymens. I also wanted it as a toy rather than a daily, so didn't want to stretch myself to a more modern Porsche so I can run 2 cars.
How often do you use it? Whenever it's sunny. It's a soft top, so I convince myself that unless it's impractical to do so, I'll take the soft top.
What do you do with it? Drive it. Commute when the sun's out. Driving road trips. Random Sunday drives up the mountains.
Have you ever regretted it? Nope!
I have a 986 Boxster S which id class as a modern classic.
How did you get into classic car ownership? I love the look of air cooled Porsches. Knew they were unattainable. 986 was a good balance of affordable to buy, good to drive, easy to drive while looking a bit more classic than the newer boxster or caymens. I also wanted it as a toy rather than a daily, so didn't want to stretch myself to a more modern Porsche so I can run 2 cars.
How often do you use it? Whenever it's sunny. It's a soft top, so I convince myself that unless it's impractical to do so, I'll take the soft top.
What do you do with it? Drive it. Commute when the sun's out. Driving road trips. Random Sunday drives up the mountains.
Have you ever regretted it? Nope!
Jayho said:
The key would be to pick something that's not purely based on nostalgia but also something which is different enough to your daily drivers that you don't mind the flaws. The Vectra GSI you've listed for example, will probably be less nice to drive, less comfy, thirstier and generally a less nice place to be in than your Skoda. So reality, how often would you pick up the keys to the Vectra in comparison? At which point it becomes a garden ornament.
I cannot stress this enough based on first hand experience. I once had a E39 530i Sport manual. It was my dry weather / fun car. It worked really well as that whilst my wife had a Toyota Corolla 1.6 something.We then bought her a new Insignia Grand Sport 1.5T SRI 170ps. It was so much more comfortable, better equipped, drove better and was not noticeably slower than the E39.
Unfortunately whenever I went out on a dry warm day, I picked the keys to the Insignia. The connectivity to phone apps. etc made it so much better to use. I could listen to all my music, throw my phone screen to the car screen and mirror all apps.
To drive it felt tight and the engine pulled far harder than it should’ve done for a 1.5 in an Insignia. The turbo spoil sound made it quite fun too. I even preferred the gear change in the Vauxhall.
The BMW was sold 3 months later due to lack of use.
I know have a older Civic Type R which is polar opposite and great fun to drive on those dry and warm days.
The older the car the simpler it will be to work on, but the harder it may be to find a solid one or find spares.
Find something that sold well and shares a lot of parts.
a MK1 MX5 is a great shout for both reasons.
Alfa GTV/Spider? 2.0 twinspark much easier to work on that the busso
Find something that sold well and shares a lot of parts.
a MK1 MX5 is a great shout for both reasons.
Alfa GTV/Spider? 2.0 twinspark much easier to work on that the busso
Edited by andburg on Friday 25th August 15:36
Fiisch said:
Where do people find cars like these in a decent condition? (Other than PH classifieds obviously... )
Owner forums, PH classifieds, Car & Classic classifieds, and ebay are all good places to start. )Fiisch said:
How did you get into classic car ownership? How often do you use it? What do you do with it? Have you ever regretted it?
Just wanted something different. I've only really dipped my toe in to the water with classic ownership, having owned a Jag XK8, early BMW Z4, and R53 Mini Cooper S in recent years. I'm not mechanically minded, and I took my cars to specialist garages for anything more complicated than oil and filter changes. All of these cars were the second car in a two car household, and had to do school pickups, station runs etc in all weathers. In hindsight, I wish I had run the Jag as a 3 season car, and tucked it away in a garage over the winter months. But I didn't have the space or the cash to run a three car fleet!
Fiisch said:
As you can see, I'm clearly having some form of mid-life crisis. Although I guess a tatty Mondeo is probably preferable to having an affair...
The cars you're looking at sound like an easy way into classic car ownership. The late 90s and early 2000s were a "golden age" of relative mechanical simplicity combined with decent rust proofing and safety features compared to the cars that had gone before. I agree with the point that others have made - your classic needs to offer something different to the rest of your fleet. Maybe consider a coupe instead of a saloon? Kids have short legs and they'll fit into the back of most coupes. Mine were 5 and 2 when I bought my XK8, and they loved riding in it.Agree with the above, pick something that's distinctly different so you have a reason to use it, perhaps a convertible, or something with an interesting engine that feels a bit special.
Alfas are good for that, the GTV with the V6 may be less convenient to work on, but the engine makes up for it, it's a truly special lump, and the rest of the car is very good looking, and has all of the awkward Italian 'qualities' that make it feel like an occasion.
How do you get in to it? Buy one and start googling how to fix the problems
As you're in Buckinghamshire, A for Alfa is probably nearby (in Aylesbury) and Paul is a really decent bloke and knows the cars well.
Spannering is easy, it's all just nuts and bolts, get yourself a Halfords Advanced 150+ piece tool set when they're on offer and start watching Youtube videos of how to do stuff. Be prepared that for the first year or two, it'll feel like every job you attempt needs a new tool you don't have, but you eventually get over that!
We're similar age and I'm only over in Northampton so if you do get a project and want a hand with anything give me a shout, having someone on hand to watch over your shoulder whilst you do things is a much more comforting way to learn Oh and buy a decently heavy hammer, it will help a lot more than you'd think
Alfas are good for that, the GTV with the V6 may be less convenient to work on, but the engine makes up for it, it's a truly special lump, and the rest of the car is very good looking, and has all of the awkward Italian 'qualities' that make it feel like an occasion.
How do you get in to it? Buy one and start googling how to fix the problems
As you're in Buckinghamshire, A for Alfa is probably nearby (in Aylesbury) and Paul is a really decent bloke and knows the cars well.
Spannering is easy, it's all just nuts and bolts, get yourself a Halfords Advanced 150+ piece tool set when they're on offer and start watching Youtube videos of how to do stuff. Be prepared that for the first year or two, it'll feel like every job you attempt needs a new tool you don't have, but you eventually get over that!
We're similar age and I'm only over in Northampton so if you do get a project and want a hand with anything give me a shout, having someone on hand to watch over your shoulder whilst you do things is a much more comforting way to learn
Oh and buy a decently heavy hammer, it will help a lot more than you'd think Do your research and make sure there are ‘garages’ locally that can help fix things on whatever you decide to buy.
My 30 year old Impreza finally had a head gasket go, but it’s of an age and mileage where you really need to rebuild the engine at the same time.
There’s only 1 local specialist now and the place is surrounded by about 30-40 parked up Imprezas. Mine has been there over 2 months waiting and I don’t have much expectation of getting it back this year.
My 30 year old Impreza finally had a head gasket go, but it’s of an age and mileage where you really need to rebuild the engine at the same time.
There’s only 1 local specialist now and the place is surrounded by about 30-40 parked up Imprezas. Mine has been there over 2 months waiting and I don’t have much expectation of getting it back this year.
This place can throw up some interesting cars.
https://forum.retro-rides.org/board/58/cars-sale
Carandclassic too of course.
https://forum.retro-rides.org/board/58/cars-sale
Carandclassic too of course.
Crudeoink said:
Blasphemy!
All I can think of right now is John Cleese in Life of Brian.
Yeah, I felt the same to be honest. I love E39s and have owned several from 525i SE to 535i V8 Sport. Although I preferred my 528i Sport over the 530i Sport.
I so wanted to hate the Insignia but just couldn't. What became worse was the realisation that the Insignia was the better overall car. I would have never thought that when we bought it.
I was in an a similar position recently, as I had the iPace as a daily,
I really wanted something with a very special engine as a weekend car
I went for a 2001 GTV V6, it feels very special to drive, and to be in with its interior, a nice usable classic, and the Busso is a glorious engine, and fantastic to hear after having silence with the daily (I’m completely hopeless mechanically) and wouldn’t know where to start if anything went wrong, so is being looked after by a local specialist, although it’s been very reliable in my ownership so far, only failing to start on a few occasions.. but I suspect it will need some attention at some point.. I originally wanted to go for the Spider, but having the rear “seats” has come in useful for taking the kids along too.
For local errands or a lovely driving trip around wales, it’s been a joy, not the first word in handling, but makes up for it with that engine,
Any excuse to pop a photo in..
I really wanted something with a very special engine as a weekend car
I went for a 2001 GTV V6, it feels very special to drive, and to be in with its interior, a nice usable classic, and the Busso is a glorious engine, and fantastic to hear after having silence with the daily (I’m completely hopeless mechanically) and wouldn’t know where to start if anything went wrong, so is being looked after by a local specialist, although it’s been very reliable in my ownership so far, only failing to start on a few occasions.. but I suspect it will need some attention at some point.. I originally wanted to go for the Spider, but having the rear “seats” has come in useful for taking the kids along too.
For local errands or a lovely driving trip around wales, it’s been a joy, not the first word in handling, but makes up for it with that engine,
Any excuse to pop a photo in..
Edited by jamesbilluk on Saturday 26th August 00:36
OP i'd be looking at cars on Ebay, mainly because of the possibility of detailed descriptions and being able to check out seller feedback.
I wouldn't consider anything with rust or more than 80k.
If you intend to use the car sparingly you'll probably get away with a local garage just doing basic maintainence, if you intend doing many miles then have something saved up to cover garage repair bills.
You're braver than me, have fun.
I wouldn't consider anything with rust or more than 80k.
If you intend to use the car sparingly you'll probably get away with a local garage just doing basic maintainence, if you intend doing many miles then have something saved up to cover garage repair bills.
You're braver than me, have fun.
jamesbilluk said:
I was in an a similar position recently, as I had the iPace as a daily,
I really wanted something with a very special engine as a weekend car
I went for a 2001 GTV V6, it feels very special to drive, and to be in with its interior, a nice usable classic, and the Busso is a glorious engine, and fantastic to hear after having silence with the daily (I’m completely hopeless mechanically) and wouldn’t know where to start if anything went wrong, so is being looked after by a local specialist, although it’s been very reliable in my ownership so far, only failing to start on a few occasions.. but I suspect it will need some attention at some point.. I originally wanted to go for the Spider, but having the rear “seats” has come in useful for taking the kids along too.
For local errands or a lovely driving trip around wales, it’s been a joy, not the first word in handling, but makes up for it with that engine,
Any excuse to pop a photo in..
Another Alfa GTV v6 owner here.....supercool (my opinion) and so much more interesting than a modern car. Kids (11 and 8) happy in the back. Very analogue experience compared to anything modern.I really wanted something with a very special engine as a weekend car
I went for a 2001 GTV V6, it feels very special to drive, and to be in with its interior, a nice usable classic, and the Busso is a glorious engine, and fantastic to hear after having silence with the daily (I’m completely hopeless mechanically) and wouldn’t know where to start if anything went wrong, so is being looked after by a local specialist, although it’s been very reliable in my ownership so far, only failing to start on a few occasions.. but I suspect it will need some attention at some point.. I originally wanted to go for the Spider, but having the rear “seats” has come in useful for taking the kids along too.
For local errands or a lovely driving trip around wales, it’s been a joy, not the first word in handling, but makes up for it with that engine,
Any excuse to pop a photo in..
Edited by jamesbilluk on Saturday 26th August 00:36
I am also mechanically naive and the simple solution is to find a good garage and let them get on with it. Even a good example will have issues crop up but at this point you have zero depreciation and no monthlies...now that mine is 'sorted' (wheels, tyres, suspension refresh, clutch) it's going to be sub £1K PA to run including insurance and tax, unless anything big goes wrong. That's 2 months PCP payments on some boring modern hatchback.
You do slightly have to be careful of falling down a rabbit hole on these cars. I had a Q2 diff fitted (£1K) which was not strictly necessary....i am thinking about a sunroof delete (it has a dodgy aftermarket one with no proper drainage which chronically leaks) which might be pricey, I am considering some proper car hifi which may cost more than the car itself originally did, oh look at that quad exhaust, that would sound amazing, will I get every single scratch and tiny dent fixed, etc.etc.
Good luck!
Edited by JohnBRG on Saturday 26th August 06:56
StuE39 said:
Crudeoink said:
Blasphemy!
All I can think of right now is John Cleese in Life of Brian.
Yeah, I felt the same to be honest. I love E39s and have owned several from 525i SE to 535i V8 Sport. Although I preferred my 528i Sport over the 530i Sport.
I so wanted to hate the Insignia but just couldn't. What became worse was the realisation that the Insignia was the better overall car. I would have never thought that when we bought it.
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