Classic car bought at auction, can it be returned
Discussion
My dad has bought a classic car from a well know auction company , the car was sold as needing recommission as it had been off the road for a number of years, fine.
However there’s two issues, one is the auction got the year incorrect, and more importantly the car has been clocked, rather obviously and poorly, they have literally crossed numbers off the paperwork and written new digits down with a pen, the online MOT history shows the car went from 90k down to 26k back in 2010.
It wasn’t possible to check this prior because the car was advertised with a private plate which was in the process of being removed, the system just said “no details found”
I see now the advert specifies what the new plate would be however must have been added late as it wasn’t on to begin with nor the days leading up to the auction.
However there’s two issues, one is the auction got the year incorrect, and more importantly the car has been clocked, rather obviously and poorly, they have literally crossed numbers off the paperwork and written new digits down with a pen, the online MOT history shows the car went from 90k down to 26k back in 2010.
It wasn’t possible to check this prior because the car was advertised with a private plate which was in the process of being removed, the system just said “no details found”
I see now the advert specifies what the new plate would be however must have been added late as it wasn’t on to begin with nor the days leading up to the auction.
Is buying classic cars a normal thing for your dad and was it a planned purchase? The reason I ask is that when my dad got older he would do all sorts of unusual and bizarre actions which were often expensive and of no actual benefit to him. It got to the stage where he was hiding stuff and I was having to question what he was up to and intervene and it wasn't just the cost but the logistics of having to travel, transport and store stuff. Eventually he was diagnosed with a condition and after one pretty distasteful incident which was a borderline scam we were able to use his medial history to cancel an unwanted contract.
The year is only out by one year, however he says the year he wanted, and which the car was advertised at is the “sought after” year,
Looking through the history the previous owner has spent a fortune on the car, and to then go and blacklist the cars history the way he has is bizarre to me, at first I thought the car may have had a replacement speedo fitted and not corrected the mileage, but once I seen the “amended” paper mots I was quite staggered to be honest
Looking through the history the previous owner has spent a fortune on the car, and to then go and blacklist the cars history the way he has is bizarre to me, at first I thought the car may have had a replacement speedo fitted and not corrected the mileage, but once I seen the “amended” paper mots I was quite staggered to be honest
I've seen cars submitted at classic auctions that 'sold' in the previous one. When I've asked why, it is sometimes buyer's remorse and been re-submitted, some have failed to provide funds, or sometimes, because the top bidder refused to compete the purchase due to misleading or obvious undeclared faults. Auctioneers often wash their hands with mis-descriptions, blaming it on the vendor. 
If the item had been mis-described, he'd have been within his rights to refuse to complete the purchase I reckon but presumably, it has been paid for and delivered, in which case the transaction has been completed, you can't return it.
CCA, for example state this in heir buying guide, other auction house will have similar:
"The catalogue will describe the lots to the best of our ability on information supplied. You should, however, satisfy yourself as to the condition, age and integrity of any lot prior to bidding as no warranties whatsoever are given in relation to any lot. As the hammer falls a contract is made and you are obligated to proceed with the purchase. It is therefore vital that you are satisfied to the best of your ability with the condition of the lot you intend to bid upon before doing so."
Hand amending the old style MoTs seems ridiculous. They've been accessible on a database since 2006 / 07 ish depending on the testing station anyway!
If the item had been mis-described, he'd have been within his rights to refuse to complete the purchase I reckon but presumably, it has been paid for and delivered, in which case the transaction has been completed, you can't return it.
CCA, for example state this in heir buying guide, other auction house will have similar:
"The catalogue will describe the lots to the best of our ability on information supplied. You should, however, satisfy yourself as to the condition, age and integrity of any lot prior to bidding as no warranties whatsoever are given in relation to any lot. As the hammer falls a contract is made and you are obligated to proceed with the purchase. It is therefore vital that you are satisfied to the best of your ability with the condition of the lot you intend to bid upon before doing so."
Hand amending the old style MoTs seems ridiculous. They've been accessible on a database since 2006 / 07 ish depending on the testing station anyway!
Is this really about year and mileage, not buyer's remorse? easy to get carried away at auction, recommissioning can be a really expensive task, even if the motor was good before storage.
For me personally, for a classic car needing recommissioning, mileage would be minor detail to me - unless something perhaps really rare and exotic.
Completeness and originality, lack of previous accident damage, , no bodged repairs, no dodgy swage lines and door shuts, no rust problems etc for the body, plus a decent running motor and box would be my priority.
Mileage correction with a new engine?
Many classics have unknown mileages. New engine, maybe a replacement speedo. It might not be "right", but does happen and is sort of accepted. Aftedall, after a certain age, does mileage really matter? How many original parts are on the car etc etc..
The extreme example was tle le mans bentley court case back in the late 80s. One was the car, with continuous history but almost everything replaced. Someone brought together a large percentage of the original, Bentley made parts and laimed fheirs was the more original caf, albeit in a delapidated state
Might it be a case of buyer regret?
Many classics have unknown mileages. New engine, maybe a replacement speedo. It might not be "right", but does happen and is sort of accepted. Aftedall, after a certain age, does mileage really matter? How many original parts are on the car etc etc..
The extreme example was tle le mans bentley court case back in the late 80s. One was the car, with continuous history but almost everything replaced. Someone brought together a large percentage of the original, Bentley made parts and laimed fheirs was the more original caf, albeit in a delapidated state
Might it be a case of buyer regret?
usn90 said:
He was happy when he won it, however all this has soured the whole thing.
MOT mileage
2010 - 86,259
2011 -89,672
2012 fail - 31,368
2012 pass - 31,412
2013 53,337
2014 93,765
2016 fail 94,152
2015 pass 94,202
2018 fail 94,959
2018 pass 94,970
What mileage did he believe he was buying ?MOT mileage
2010 - 86,259
2011 -89,672
2012 fail - 31,368
2012 pass - 31,412
2013 53,337
2014 93,765
2016 fail 94,152
2015 pass 94,202
2018 fail 94,959
2018 pass 94,970
Year of first registration and year of manufacture (or indeed model year) are not always the same thing… does he understand which of these he was aiming for ?
Hungrymc said:
usn90 said:
He was happy when he won it, however all this has soured the whole thing.
MOT mileage
2010 - 86,259
2011 -89,672
2012 fail - 31,368
2012 pass - 31,412
2013 53,337
2014 93,765
2016 fail 94,152
2015 pass 94,202
2018 fail 94,959
2018 pass 94,970
What mileage did he believe he was buying ?MOT mileage
2010 - 86,259
2011 -89,672
2012 fail - 31,368
2012 pass - 31,412
2013 53,337
2014 93,765
2016 fail 94,152
2015 pass 94,202
2018 fail 94,959
2018 pass 94,970
Year of first registration and year of manufacture (or indeed model year) are not always the same thing… does he understand which of these he was aiming for ?
Surely this only matters if he wants to sell it in the future and does not change whether or not it is the car which stands before you.
When it comes time to sell, if he does not just keep it forever... it's a simple process of listing it correctly and explaining the problem to any potential buyer. I don't think it makes the car less valuable necessarily if that is the concern.
When it comes time to sell, if he does not just keep it forever... it's a simple process of listing it correctly and explaining the problem to any potential buyer. I don't think it makes the car less valuable necessarily if that is the concern.
markjmd said:
pot on. Actual mileage trend is obvious to anyone giving it any real thought. To describe this as an "obvious clocking attempt" is ridiculous.
Yes, if you remove a certain few years there’s a trend, but if it was one years MOT of out place you’d put it down to an error at the station, but multiple I find it hard to believe.But regardless of all that, how do you explain the doctoring of the paperwork, if not clocking?
One of the fears is being able to sell this in the future, if even we can’t explain what’s gone on, the cars around £50 -70k
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