Comfortable, reliable and spacious car
Discussion
Have a Superb 220bhp 2.0t petrol sport line. It looks nice but wouldn't call it comfort with the seats and 19 inch wheels. It's fine up to about 2 hours behind the wheel but beyond that I start fidgeting and it's crashy over potholes riddled roads.
Would get an se-l or L&K if I had the choice again. Also the red paint is soft as anything.
Would get an se-l or L&K if I had the choice again. Also the red paint is soft as anything.
With an almost identical need as you, I've just placed an order for a 72 reg Skoda Superb 1.5TSI DSG SE. I'm picking it up on Saturday.
Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
Edited by CivicDuties on Wednesday 28th August 11:11
I took a 1.4 petrol and 2.0 diesel superb for a test drive back to back before I bought mine and preferred the lighter feeling and less noise of the petrol. Even my son who was a passenger preferred it.
I also went with a 2.0 petrol as I wanted a dsg gearbox and the smaller engines cars comes with the dry clutch box where the bigger engines have the wet clutch which I thought would be better for reliability. Plus
Loads of room in the back of my saloon which has a hatch verses a normal boot. Should've got an estate though. Someone on the barge thread described the superb as an Octavia with more room in the back which id sybis accurate.
If you want more wafty I'd get an S class, late XJ, Lexus LS or a jdm Toyota crown. Ultimate waft is a Toyota Century but these have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Also wish I'd got a 3.5 Alphard instead
I also went with a 2.0 petrol as I wanted a dsg gearbox and the smaller engines cars comes with the dry clutch box where the bigger engines have the wet clutch which I thought would be better for reliability. Plus
Loads of room in the back of my saloon which has a hatch verses a normal boot. Should've got an estate though. Someone on the barge thread described the superb as an Octavia with more room in the back which id sybis accurate.
If you want more wafty I'd get an S class, late XJ, Lexus LS or a jdm Toyota crown. Ultimate waft is a Toyota Century but these have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Also wish I'd got a 3.5 Alphard instead
The 1.5 Superb I've bought didn't feel underpowered to me, and it has bags of torque, so I'm not worried about the size of the engine, stress and all that, and 7 gears means it's not going to be revving its tits off like my VTEC Civic when I plant my foot. I'll do the gearbox oil change on schedule, and that should prevent any reliability issues long term. They're no longer offering the Superb brand new with a manual gearbox option, so they must be pretty confident in the DSG box now. It's been around almost 20 years.
And £20k will get you an Approved Used one under 2 years old, like mine, so the latest generation of the engine and gearbox.
Interesting about the batteries in the Camry, I was going by how photos of the boot look in Autotrader adverts - it looks very small to me for a large car, so I assumed the batteries were the problem. Maybe it'll work for you then.
And £20k will get you an Approved Used one under 2 years old, like mine, so the latest generation of the engine and gearbox.
Interesting about the batteries in the Camry, I was going by how photos of the boot look in Autotrader adverts - it looks very small to me for a large car, so I assumed the batteries were the problem. Maybe it'll work for you then.
Health implications? My other car's a Nissan Leaf, I've been sitting on a big battery for 7 years and my head didn't fall off yet.
I've heard it said that the 2.0 isn't much quicker off the mark unless you put it into Sport mode. It blunts performance to keep emissions down. Put it in sport then it is a lot quicker. 150PS feels fine in the 1.5 with that 250Nm torque.
I've heard it said that the 2.0 isn't much quicker off the mark unless you put it into Sport mode. It blunts performance to keep emissions down. Put it in sport then it is a lot quicker. 150PS feels fine in the 1.5 with that 250Nm torque.
MYOB said:
CivicDuties said:
Health implications? My other car's a Nissan Leaf, I've been sitting on a big battery for 7 years and my head didn't fall off yet.
There are some concerns regarding the long-term ration of electromagnetic fields which is not conclusive. So to avoid any doubts, I may stick with petrol only. I’ll have a look at the 1.5 then. Whilst I’m not looking for outright speed, I like some torque! Sounds like there’s enough for my needs.
Yes the torque was my concern too, my current car struggles on those long autoroute inclines in France. I took the Superb up the A404(M) to Handy Cross, don't know if you're local, but that's a fairly steep, long incline and it flew up there without any ceremony. Felt like my big old diesels.
Take a test drive and see what you think.
MYOB said:
I think a closer look at the 1.5 might be wise then. They must have faith in them as they use them across the whole of the VAG group.
Head is saying 1.5 but my heart is saying 2.0.
I’ll still keep an eye out on a Camry if one pops up locally. Just a little concerned about the health implications of sitting on top of a small hybrid battery so I’ll need to look into this a bit more.
If it's architected in the same way as my hybrid Corolla then the hybrid battery is under the rear seats. Then it's just a problem for your rear passengers Head is saying 1.5 but my heart is saying 2.0.
I’ll still keep an eye out on a Camry if one pops up locally. Just a little concerned about the health implications of sitting on top of a small hybrid battery so I’ll need to look into this a bit more.
CivicDuties said:
With an almost identical need as you, I've just placed an order for a 72 reg Skoda Superb 1.5TSI DSG SE. I'm picking it up on Saturday.
Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
As the aforementioned PHer I can indeed confirm that a 330kms 3yo Superb taxi was indeed in amazing condition. I actually thought it was a few weeks old. Not a single rattle or squeak on 10 miles of rural Spanish roads, I was astounded. Had a decent test drive, and it was everything I hoped it would be. Just an excellent all round tool. Plenty of power and shove, loads of space for gangly teens, just enough equipment. Quiet, comfy, smooth. I had my doubts after reading horror stories about DSG, but the box and engine seem superbly well matched on this car, feels a step up form the 5-spd TC auto I currently drive, this being a 7-spd box. I think early gremlins with regards to the DSG box, and it's combination with this specific engine, have been resolved, and also the old cam chain reliability issue has been resolved by changing the engine to cambelt, but ultra-longlife (140k miles, 15 year intervals, obviously can be changed early depending on use and owner's preference).
I don't think there's much on the market which can compare in terms of the balance of practicality and value for money.
EDIT: Just seen the post above about the Sportline Superb. Generally accepted wisdom is that the 2.0 doesn't really deliver much more than the 1.5 in the real world, and yes I personally avoided the Sportline spec and went for SE because of smaller wheels, fatter tyres and greater comfort. More toys if you go up to SE L or L&K spec. I preferred a newer, lower mileage SE for the money. My one was £19,999, with only 7k on the clock, on Approved Used form a main dealer, so 2 years warranty, servicing and MOTs included. Spot on OP's budget.
One of my offspring is 6'3" and there will be more than enough legroom in the back for him, even with a normal adult in the front seat. Haven't seen anything this side of an LWB A8 or similar with as much rear space.
I used to drive an Mercedes E320 CDi, a 3.0 straight six diesel obviously, and this Superb doesn't feel like it lacks anything in comparison on the motorway.
Further EDIT: I also wanted something Japanese, I'm moving from a Honda Civic Tourer (we've outgrown it), which has been flawless for 5 years. But there's nothing suitable on the market without going to SUV, and I'm not doing that. As OP said, rear legroom in a Mazda 6 is really disappointing, and no better than my Civic. There are probably Subarus which might be suitable, but I simply don't want something niche like that. I wish there were a Toyota Camry estate, but there isn't and I can't magic one into existence - the Camry's saloon boot is compromised because of the battery pack, so luggage becomes an issue for holidays, and also I have a dog, so hatch/estate necessary for me. So, Skoda Superb it is, and as new and as low miles as possible for a £20k budget, Approved Used, so as to allay any reliability doubts.
Another PHer was in a Spanish taxi last week, a 2021 Skoda Superb with 330k kms on the clock. Thousands of taxi drivers can't be wrong on reliability. I asked him what he thought of the car, he said "Superb".
Edited by CivicDuties on Wednesday 28th August 11:11
MYOB said:
oilslick said:
If it's architected in the same way as my hybrid Corolla then the hybrid battery is under the rear seats. Then it's just a problem for your rear passengers
Which are my kids so I would rather minimise any risks. Mind you, they are already exposed to high EMFs with all their IT equipment!
Still, there's not as much legroom in a Passat as a Superb. The Superb has a specially extended wheelbase, it was originally conceived for the Chinese market where Plutocrats like to sit in the back. Passat room is OK, but Superb is next level. I think that's probably why I didn't bother looking now, come to think of it. We had a Passat saloon as a hire car in Slovenia a couple of years back before son turned into Goliath. It was a 2.0 diesel though. Plenty of room, and we even managed to transport 4 sets of skis around the place with us using the hatch in the middle of the rear seats. Good car.
Peugeot 508? 20k should get you a 2020ish PHEV with main dealer warranty. Certainly fits the criteria of a large wafty saloon and the PHEV would suit your mainly local usage.
Or for a more left field choice DS9s are getting into the 20k mark and are essentially a long wheelbase 508 with more rear legroom (and chrome...)
Or for a more left field choice DS9s are getting into the 20k mark and are essentially a long wheelbase 508 with more rear legroom (and chrome...)
2.0T Kia Stinger with the balance of the warranty left:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406200...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405099...
DS9:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406200...
If you can live with the fuel then the Hyundai Genesis is a hard one to beat but it'll be out of warranty but you won't find a better place to be for 16k:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406241...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407211...
2,5 Mazda6 is a very good alternative to the 1.5 Skoda & well worth a test drive:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405109...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407121...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406200...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405099...
DS9:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406200...
If you can live with the fuel then the Hyundai Genesis is a hard one to beat but it'll be out of warranty but you won't find a better place to be for 16k:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406241...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407211...
2,5 Mazda6 is a very good alternative to the 1.5 Skoda & well worth a test drive:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405109...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407121...
A couple of suggestions no one else has made. Probably as mentioned you had ruled out German cars, but it may be worth reconsidering.
A BMW 6 GT - These are lovely to drive has loads of room, well spec'd and just about within your budget: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408082...
If a little pricey there is the slightly older 5GT which is very similar to drive and has loads of space: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406180...
I know the 5GT I linked to is a diesel, but I have the same model, for the last 4 years its predominantly done short local runs with a longer drive once a week (30+ miles) without a single issue.
The only significant fault it has had in 4 years and 40k miles has been a failed air suspension compressor which was replaced along with the rear suspension air bags under warranty.
A BMW 6 GT - These are lovely to drive has loads of room, well spec'd and just about within your budget: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408082...
If a little pricey there is the slightly older 5GT which is very similar to drive and has loads of space: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406180...
I know the 5GT I linked to is a diesel, but I have the same model, for the last 4 years its predominantly done short local runs with a longer drive once a week (30+ miles) without a single issue.
The only significant fault it has had in 4 years and 40k miles has been a failed air suspension compressor which was replaced along with the rear suspension air bags under warranty.
Edited by RTaylor2208 on Thursday 29th August 08:53
If these even a smidgen of a chance you’d look at BMW maybe these old war horses worth a test drive with your teenagers? The 735i in particular built to last forever and reliable. In today’s world I think both of these quite left field. I know of friends examples that have done 300,000 miles without any major issues they just needed regular routine oil changes and servicing.
I realise you say no Germans but I think you should take these for a test drive and maybe reconsider? Also you should take your teenagers and ask them what they think. These are not expensive to run if you buy a good one in the first place. Over all cost of ownership should be cheaper than any of the cars you’re currently considering. Mazda, Lexus etc can be very expensive on parts nowadays. An old 735i large saloon probably no bigger than today’s mid sized saloons too.
https://oldcolonelcars.co.uk/listing/bmw-e327-seri...
https://oldcolonelcars.co.uk/listing/bmw-e38-7-ser...
I realise you say no Germans but I think you should take these for a test drive and maybe reconsider? Also you should take your teenagers and ask them what they think. These are not expensive to run if you buy a good one in the first place. Over all cost of ownership should be cheaper than any of the cars you’re currently considering. Mazda, Lexus etc can be very expensive on parts nowadays. An old 735i large saloon probably no bigger than today’s mid sized saloons too.
https://oldcolonelcars.co.uk/listing/bmw-e327-seri...
https://oldcolonelcars.co.uk/listing/bmw-e38-7-ser...
Superb 2.0 220 sport line owner here. I tried the 1.5 in a karoq and it felt a little underpowered if you are used to something with a bit of shove. 2.0 is much better but struggles in cold and wet conditions with traction at lower speeds ( better tyres can help). No issues with comfort even in sport line trim, it's easily as comfortable as a VW cc I had with DCC suspension even set in comfort. I'd certainly recommend a superb in sport line, se-l or l&k trim given your needs.
IMI A said:
Thar E38 is still a gorgeous piece of design. Why oh why has BMW lost its way?Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff