Cheap B-road weekend toy
Discussion
Morning all
I’ve just turned 22 and my daily is a Volvo V90 diesel (Polestar’d) which is a great motorway cruiser and daily hack. I do a lot of mileage and its been fab (had it for about 6 months now and done nearly 12k IIRC!). Averages about 50mpg on a mixed commute, too and has every possible thing I could want in a car. But there’s no getting around it, its a big and lazy barge and while it is not terrible to drive it gets regularly left for dead on the great country roads where I live in the Home counties, by my mates in their much smaller and nimbler cars. Primarily due to the girth and sheer heft of the thing.
I have been mulling over buying a house for the last year, but im waiting for the right time. And I have a hankering for something to put a smile on my face and indulge my passion for cars and driving again. Its a colossal waste of money to go out and change the V90 when it owes me very little and does everything so right. And i don’t want to spunk loads so I am looking at manual hot hatches that will be cheap to insure. Bear in mind I’m 22 so “cheap to insure” is sub £2k. I pay about £1500 for my Volvo and I paid over 5 grand to insure a brand new EQC for relativity. I also want to be able to run it on a tight budget so it doesnt owe me too much when I sell it on when I want to buy a home. Having a hot hatch is helpful when I want to teach my sister to drive as L plates and provisional insurance tends to be fairly cheap on any car.
Also needs to be ULEZ!
So far my ideas are:
Honda Civic Type R (EP3): my dream car growing up. The touring car driving position and rawness of it all is exciting. A friend’s mum had one when I was young and I remember just gawping at it all the time (a Nighthawk black prefacelift with a big exhaust). The problem is they’re quite expensive now (towards the top of my budget) and its easy to find a rusty dog.
Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup: a fun little tin can, but the weird seating position and tinnyness of it all puts me off. I’ve never driven one but I would give it a go. Also suffers the same problem as the Type R of unmolested models being as rare as hen’s teeth now.
Renaultsport Megane F1 Team R26: not sure of the insurance on this one. But they’re rare and the build quality is questionable. The Megane II always had electrical issues, not sure if the R26 was any different?
Mini Cooper S R53. Getting on a bit now but plentiful and the supercharger whine is very cool. Not sure if ULEZ?
Ford Fiesta ST Mk7. I can imagine they are cracking to drive but I can also imagine the insurance is ruinous.
Audi S3 8P. The same as above. Surprisingly cheap.
I’ve already ruled out:
VW Golf GTI Mk5. My dad already has an R32, and these don’t really do it for me unless they’re an Edition 30, which fetch a lot.
Mazda MX5, too impractical. I like to carry mates.
Porsche Boxster, the same as above but ruinous to run, 5k would probably only buy a dog these days
Alfa Brera prodrive, too bulky and expensive.
BMW 130i and 330i, too ruinous to insure and run.
Ford Focus ST, never a fan of these.
I’ve just turned 22 and my daily is a Volvo V90 diesel (Polestar’d) which is a great motorway cruiser and daily hack. I do a lot of mileage and its been fab (had it for about 6 months now and done nearly 12k IIRC!). Averages about 50mpg on a mixed commute, too and has every possible thing I could want in a car. But there’s no getting around it, its a big and lazy barge and while it is not terrible to drive it gets regularly left for dead on the great country roads where I live in the Home counties, by my mates in their much smaller and nimbler cars. Primarily due to the girth and sheer heft of the thing.
I have been mulling over buying a house for the last year, but im waiting for the right time. And I have a hankering for something to put a smile on my face and indulge my passion for cars and driving again. Its a colossal waste of money to go out and change the V90 when it owes me very little and does everything so right. And i don’t want to spunk loads so I am looking at manual hot hatches that will be cheap to insure. Bear in mind I’m 22 so “cheap to insure” is sub £2k. I pay about £1500 for my Volvo and I paid over 5 grand to insure a brand new EQC for relativity. I also want to be able to run it on a tight budget so it doesnt owe me too much when I sell it on when I want to buy a home. Having a hot hatch is helpful when I want to teach my sister to drive as L plates and provisional insurance tends to be fairly cheap on any car.
Also needs to be ULEZ!
So far my ideas are:
Honda Civic Type R (EP3): my dream car growing up. The touring car driving position and rawness of it all is exciting. A friend’s mum had one when I was young and I remember just gawping at it all the time (a Nighthawk black prefacelift with a big exhaust). The problem is they’re quite expensive now (towards the top of my budget) and its easy to find a rusty dog.
Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup: a fun little tin can, but the weird seating position and tinnyness of it all puts me off. I’ve never driven one but I would give it a go. Also suffers the same problem as the Type R of unmolested models being as rare as hen’s teeth now.
Renaultsport Megane F1 Team R26: not sure of the insurance on this one. But they’re rare and the build quality is questionable. The Megane II always had electrical issues, not sure if the R26 was any different?
Mini Cooper S R53. Getting on a bit now but plentiful and the supercharger whine is very cool. Not sure if ULEZ?
Ford Fiesta ST Mk7. I can imagine they are cracking to drive but I can also imagine the insurance is ruinous.
Audi S3 8P. The same as above. Surprisingly cheap.
I’ve already ruled out:
VW Golf GTI Mk5. My dad already has an R32, and these don’t really do it for me unless they’re an Edition 30, which fetch a lot.
Mazda MX5, too impractical. I like to carry mates.
Porsche Boxster, the same as above but ruinous to run, 5k would probably only buy a dog these days
Alfa Brera prodrive, too bulky and expensive.
BMW 130i and 330i, too ruinous to insure and run.
Ford Focus ST, never a fan of these.
Tabs said:
Buy a house. Cars can come later.....
I have the money and I’ve had mortgage approved but family and career status is a bit uncertain at the moment so don’t want to commit to moving to a different county just yet. Thought I could enjoy a toy and sell it on in a few months to a year. Whether I actually go through with it is a different story - I am a master at not going through with my ideas.. 
I've had a couple of those, and test drove others! For fun you can't beat the R53 just superb fun with a few mods (which might not be cheap to insure at your age) plus not great for taking mates around.
Can you get the newer shape Leon FR? Not a bad car at all, and like a Golf but not quite... 5 door option too for your mates!
Can you get the newer shape Leon FR? Not a bad car at all, and like a Golf but not quite... 5 door option too for your mates!
CrippsCorner said:
I've had a couple of those, and test drove others! For fun you can't beat the R53 just superb fun with a few mods (which might not be cheap to insure at your age) plus not great for taking mates around.
Can you get the newer shape Leon FR? Not a bad car at all, and like a Golf but not quite... 5 door option too for your mates!
Thanks for the reply!Can you get the newer shape Leon FR? Not a bad car at all, and like a Golf but not quite... 5 door option too for your mates!
How good is a stock R53? Prefer not to go modded for insurance reasons. I’ve heard they’re pretty cramped but I regularly drive a leased Fiat 500e that I got last year and that can just about fit 4 men (if not in comfort
)Out of interest what cars have you owned out of the list? Could you summarise what you thought of them?
Yes, have considered a Leon. But the newer shape is a little bit harder to find at that budget
venster70 said:
Don't rule out the R56 generation Mini Cooper S.
These are a hoot, more refined than the R53 and the insurance may be more sensible.
The challenge will be finding a good one that's had all of the common issues addressed.
I think the R56 is much better looking than the R53 but I thought the 1.6 Prince was a scary prospect?These are a hoot, more refined than the R53 and the insurance may be more sensible.
The challenge will be finding a good one that's had all of the common issues addressed.
Panamax said:
?????
I was under the impression that learners’ insurance was cheap - my dad said learner’s insurance for my sister on his Golf R32 was under £500?Not bad I thought, but it’s a DSG and she’s decided she wants to go for a manual licence. She won’t need a car after as she’s at uni she just needs a licence
InitialDave said:
If he thinks Clios are tinny, the Twingo definitely is.
It's very entertaining, but the Panda 100HP is in my opinion a better car, even if it seems like it shouldn't be.
I'd also consider a Suzuki Swift or Ignis Sport.
Good shout with the Swift Sport, I like them a lot! I’ve sat one and it felt like a roller skate. Completely forgot about them It's very entertaining, but the Panda 100HP is in my opinion a better car, even if it seems like it shouldn't be.
I'd also consider a Suzuki Swift or Ignis Sport.
I am a big fan of the Clio 182 and the Twingo 133, I do have to say. But I just think the 182 sounds a lot more urgent. I really don’t know why Renault decided to put a huge steering wheel in the Clio of that era, whenever I sit inside a cooking model of that generation its the first thing that confuses me about them. They do look absolutely cracking though, especially the Trophy (which sadly is several times more than I’m willing to spend)
Edited by V 02 on Friday 17th January 13:54
V 02 said:
I think the R56 is much better looking than the R53 but I thought the 1.6 Prince was a scary prospect?
I didn’t have an engine problem with mine and had it for 3.5 years. It was a 2015 model though with the updated engine. Incredible fun to drive, mine was actually a Cooper S Coupe. It went exactly where you wanted it to and the engine was perfectly suited to the car. The only things of note that went wrong were buttons stopped working on the stereo (replaced under warranty) and a wheel bearing. Otherwise just normal maintenance. You can humble a lot of exotic car drivers with these down b roadsAs an EP3 owner since 2007 (Now a summer only car) and an R53 owner for a few years (winter hack) ill stick my hand in...
The R53 was bought for the Mrs, wanted a cooper but I pushed her into the Cooper S - Its been fun to drive and easy to park, we use it as a run around mostly.
The suspension is hard, it doesn't like speed bumps and is'nt great on fuel.
Many people have issues but ours has been quite trouble free, but they do like to leak oil but ours isn't too bad.
Driving is nice and direct, its light and nimble like the Civic but the Engine & gearbox in the Civic blows the R53 away but the R53 does have an LSD though... which is a pain in the Civic! The Civic loves abuse and ive driven it incredibily hard on NSL roads, very relaible and as you say, going up in value.
I think the R53's are at the bottom now and can only go up.
3-4K would get you in a very good example of R53 but definitely not a Civic, there's some shockers around.
R53 is abused and will die or be replaced next year... would I buy another? Probably not im 40+ and 6ft 3 but that's not the cars fault These cars do get under your skin though and despite all their problems, people love them.
An R56 would be a nice replacement but i would be doing ALOT of homework, we did get the R53 due to reading about the horror stories on R56's but i dont think they are as bad as people make out, you just have to be super on the ball with servicing.
All depends what you are after, boils down to N/A or Turbo/SC.
The Civic is great fun to thrash around though
Which is why i still have it, even though its "slow" in modern terms
The R53 was bought for the Mrs, wanted a cooper but I pushed her into the Cooper S - Its been fun to drive and easy to park, we use it as a run around mostly.
The suspension is hard, it doesn't like speed bumps and is'nt great on fuel.
Many people have issues but ours has been quite trouble free, but they do like to leak oil but ours isn't too bad.
Driving is nice and direct, its light and nimble like the Civic but the Engine & gearbox in the Civic blows the R53 away but the R53 does have an LSD though... which is a pain in the Civic! The Civic loves abuse and ive driven it incredibily hard on NSL roads, very relaible and as you say, going up in value.
I think the R53's are at the bottom now and can only go up.
3-4K would get you in a very good example of R53 but definitely not a Civic, there's some shockers around.
R53 is abused and will die or be replaced next year... would I buy another? Probably not im 40+ and 6ft 3 but that's not the cars fault
These cars do get under your skin though and despite all their problems, people love them.An R56 would be a nice replacement but i would be doing ALOT of homework, we did get the R53 due to reading about the horror stories on R56's but i dont think they are as bad as people make out, you just have to be super on the ball with servicing.
All depends what you are after, boils down to N/A or Turbo/SC.
The Civic is great fun to thrash around though
Which is why i still have it, even though its "slow" in modern termsMartin_Hx said:
As an EP3 owner since 2007 (Now a summer only car) and an R53 owner for a few years (winter hack) ill stick my hand in...
The R53 was bought for the Mrs, wanted a cooper but I pushed her into the Cooper S - Its been fun to drive and easy to park, we use it as a run around mostly.
The suspension is hard, it doesn't like speed bumps and is'nt great on fuel.
Many people have issues but ours has been quite trouble free, but they do like to leak oil but ours isn't too bad.
Driving is nice and direct, its light and nimble like the Civic but the Engine & gearbox in the Civic blows the R53 away but the R53 does have an LSD though... which is a pain in the Civic! The Civic loves abuse and ive driven it incredibily hard on NSL roads, very relaible and as you say, going up in value.
I think the R53's are at the bottom now and can only go up.
3-4K would get you in a very good example of R53 but definitely not a Civic, there's some shockers around.
R53 is abused and will die or be replaced next year... would I buy another? Probably not im 40+ and 6ft 3 but that's not the cars fault These cars do get under your skin though and despite all their problems, people love them.
An R56 would be a nice replacement but i would be doing ALOT of homework, we did get the R53 due to reading about the horror stories on R56's but i dont think they are as bad as people make out, you just have to be super on the ball with servicing.
All depends what you are after, boils down to N/A or Turbo/SC.
The Civic is great fun to thrash around though Which is why i still have it, even though its "slow" in modern terms
Thanks very much.The R53 was bought for the Mrs, wanted a cooper but I pushed her into the Cooper S - Its been fun to drive and easy to park, we use it as a run around mostly.
The suspension is hard, it doesn't like speed bumps and is'nt great on fuel.
Many people have issues but ours has been quite trouble free, but they do like to leak oil but ours isn't too bad.
Driving is nice and direct, its light and nimble like the Civic but the Engine & gearbox in the Civic blows the R53 away but the R53 does have an LSD though... which is a pain in the Civic! The Civic loves abuse and ive driven it incredibily hard on NSL roads, very relaible and as you say, going up in value.
I think the R53's are at the bottom now and can only go up.
3-4K would get you in a very good example of R53 but definitely not a Civic, there's some shockers around.
R53 is abused and will die or be replaced next year... would I buy another? Probably not im 40+ and 6ft 3 but that's not the cars fault
These cars do get under your skin though and despite all their problems, people love them.An R56 would be a nice replacement but i would be doing ALOT of homework, we did get the R53 due to reading about the horror stories on R56's but i dont think they are as bad as people make out, you just have to be super on the ball with servicing.
All depends what you are after, boils down to N/A or Turbo/SC.
The Civic is great fun to thrash around though
Which is why i still have it, even though its "slow" in modern termsI would like a car that can I really work to enjoy. The Civic really sounds made for me with the reliability side, but the rust is a real killer.
How do you find the NVH of the R53? Is it rattly like old Clios?
I think I will probably go and test all of these cars and see which one gets under my skin at the most and see if I want to bite the bullet, as a toy is a luxury and not a necessity for me. But hey you only live once and since I was 17 I have not owned anything you could describe as exciting or a real driver’s car. Even if its for a few months would just like a valuable experience and memory ..
ChevronB19 said:
What is your budget for both the car and insurance?
At <8k I would say a good Clio 197/200. Fun, fast, cheap(ish).
As little as possible ideally, but I probably would want to spend no more than 6500 in total. That’s the top end. I’ve seen a few clean EP3’s for around £4500 and the insurance for a full year is circa £1k. Can achieve what I want for much less though as can slap the car on my multicar policy for a few months and sell up at the end of the term if needed. That way the insurance is only a few hundred quid at most. I don’t want to go down the route of finance, I already have one agreement on my V90At <8k I would say a good Clio 197/200. Fun, fast, cheap(ish).
Parents had an EP3 from new in 2002. I loved that car. Getting quite hard to find a decent one for sensible money these days.
I had a Clio 172. Excellent little thing. I agree with your comments about the driving position, felt like I was sitting on it.
Had a Focus ST, though Mk3 so out of your proposed budget. Was a good all-rounder but not the most fun.
Currently daily driving a 130i (auto). Really enjoying the engine. Chassis is okay but I didn't buy it to spank everywhere, so it suits me.
About to buy an R53 as a weekend/track car, so that's where my money would (will) go. If you can find a well cared for, standard JCW you shouldn't lose any money.
I had a Clio 172. Excellent little thing. I agree with your comments about the driving position, felt like I was sitting on it.
Had a Focus ST, though Mk3 so out of your proposed budget. Was a good all-rounder but not the most fun.
Currently daily driving a 130i (auto). Really enjoying the engine. Chassis is okay but I didn't buy it to spank everywhere, so it suits me.
About to buy an R53 as a weekend/track car, so that's where my money would (will) go. If you can find a well cared for, standard JCW you shouldn't lose any money.
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