Petrol hybrid vs plug-in petrol hybrid??
Discussion
I really need to replace my leggy and aged Volvo v60.
I would quite like to get another Volvo as the current v60 is my third Volvo in succession. I find them very comfortable and I have put around 130k miles on each of them so they must be pretty reliable.
I never buy new but usually buy a low mileage used one.
There seems to be a lot of used XC40s for sale and I noticed that the majority of them are hybrids.
I'm not a big fan of electric cars but having watched the recent video by Harry Metcalf indicating that hybrids are the way to go I'm wondering if that should be my choice.
Certainly the fuel economy listed for the hybrids seems way better than the petrol options.
Longer trips are rare for me these days and most of use is for trips under 30 miles or so
What are they like to live with?
What's the difference between a petrol hybrid and a plug-in petrol hybrid? Is one of them a clear better choice over the other?
Is there a much better used hybrid I should be choosing instead of a Volvo?
I would quite like to get another Volvo as the current v60 is my third Volvo in succession. I find them very comfortable and I have put around 130k miles on each of them so they must be pretty reliable.
I never buy new but usually buy a low mileage used one.
There seems to be a lot of used XC40s for sale and I noticed that the majority of them are hybrids.
I'm not a big fan of electric cars but having watched the recent video by Harry Metcalf indicating that hybrids are the way to go I'm wondering if that should be my choice.
Certainly the fuel economy listed for the hybrids seems way better than the petrol options.
Longer trips are rare for me these days and most of use is for trips under 30 miles or so
What are they like to live with?
What's the difference between a petrol hybrid and a plug-in petrol hybrid? Is one of them a clear better choice over the other?
Is there a much better used hybrid I should be choosing instead of a Volvo?
Plug in hybrid will have a much larger electric only range but you then need to plug it in somewhere which if you have off street parking then it’s easy, if you don’t then it’s a pain. Petrol hybrid have a much reduced electric only range (some will only be a mile or two) and generally only useful for crawling traffic or parking as the petrol engine will kick in once above a certain low speed and mpg is, in some cases, not much better than a normal petrol engine especially if you are doing a lot of high speed, free flowing driving.
We’re in a similar boat but are limited to petrol hybrid due to lack of OSP and use it al lot around town where we should see some benefits but are under no illusion that we’ll be saving a fortune over a normal petrol engined car but choice is getting less and less as manufacturers are switching over and we require a suv type car. We are currently thinking about a Nissan Xtrail but that changes often as I can’t seem to nail down exactly the car I want. Toyota hybrids get a lot of love if you want sensible and reliable and they’ve been in the hybrid game for a good while so most kinks have been worked out.
We’re in a similar boat but are limited to petrol hybrid due to lack of OSP and use it al lot around town where we should see some benefits but are under no illusion that we’ll be saving a fortune over a normal petrol engined car but choice is getting less and less as manufacturers are switching over and we require a suv type car. We are currently thinking about a Nissan Xtrail but that changes often as I can’t seem to nail down exactly the car I want. Toyota hybrids get a lot of love if you want sensible and reliable and they’ve been in the hybrid game for a good while so most kinks have been worked out.
Edited by valiant on Saturday 22 February 11:18
You don’t have to plug in a plug in hybrid if you don’t want too, the battery never goes completely flat as it will regain energy from the brakes and engine I believe
A mild hybrid (which I think Volvo badge as B) usually replaces the starter motor with a belt driven one and uses it to start the engine and run stuff like the lights etc when you’re stationary, much more like a conventional car, although some will drive the wheels up to a certain speed (I don’t like those like the Prius and rav 4 as as soon as you put your foot down the engine cuts back in and it just doesn’t feel smooth)
Plug ins will drive the wheels for a range,I recently tried a hybrid for the first time and driving on electric is a revelation, in town it’s so smooth, instant power, silent and so comfortable, no jerking between gears or anything when pulling away.
Plus with a plug in hybrid, most will allow you to pre condition the interior so it’s warm in the winter and cool in the summer, I would pick one just for that
Before you say you don’t like EVs, you should try one (even the electric xc40) you’ll most likely see that in a car like that it makes total sense, you’re not buying a suv for driving dynamics or twisty roads, and the engine in the ICE ones aren’t exactly exciting.
The savings if you can charge at home will far outweigh any expensive public charging you have to do on a longer trip.
A mild hybrid (which I think Volvo badge as B) usually replaces the starter motor with a belt driven one and uses it to start the engine and run stuff like the lights etc when you’re stationary, much more like a conventional car, although some will drive the wheels up to a certain speed (I don’t like those like the Prius and rav 4 as as soon as you put your foot down the engine cuts back in and it just doesn’t feel smooth)
Plug ins will drive the wheels for a range,I recently tried a hybrid for the first time and driving on electric is a revelation, in town it’s so smooth, instant power, silent and so comfortable, no jerking between gears or anything when pulling away.
Plus with a plug in hybrid, most will allow you to pre condition the interior so it’s warm in the winter and cool in the summer, I would pick one just for that
Before you say you don’t like EVs, you should try one (even the electric xc40) you’ll most likely see that in a car like that it makes total sense, you’re not buying a suv for driving dynamics or twisty roads, and the engine in the ICE ones aren’t exactly exciting.
The savings if you can charge at home will far outweigh any expensive public charging you have to do on a longer trip.
I've owned a V60 PHEV Inscription 2021 for a week now. I charge it via a 3-pin socket between 00.00 and 05.00 at a very cheap rate. I can drive on the battery to the golf course 15 miles away for 45p!
As above, driving it around town is brilliant - and that's mostly what I do nowadays.
I like the preconditioning, though it wasn't working when I bought the car. The dealer and Volvo stumped up £1600 to replace the additional heater. Now it's working perfectly.
I love the adaptive cruise control too. I know you get this on many cars but I just couldn't find the BMW and Mercedes equivalent PHEVs that had it!
In the cold weather the battery claims to have a range of 19-21 miles. This should improve in the summer. The 2 litre turbocharged and supercharged engine in conjunction with the electric motor apparently gives 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. Best of both worlds!
As above, driving it around town is brilliant - and that's mostly what I do nowadays.
I like the preconditioning, though it wasn't working when I bought the car. The dealer and Volvo stumped up £1600 to replace the additional heater. Now it's working perfectly.
I love the adaptive cruise control too. I know you get this on many cars but I just couldn't find the BMW and Mercedes equivalent PHEVs that had it!
In the cold weather the battery claims to have a range of 19-21 miles. This should improve in the summer. The 2 litre turbocharged and supercharged engine in conjunction with the electric motor apparently gives 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. Best of both worlds!
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, as heavier than a pure ICE car, more complex and efficiency is poor outside of town driving.
I had a lexus NX, over the 3 years or so I owned I averaged 28mpg according to trip computer - near half the official.
If you can charge at home then get an EV, there's no journey you can't do in something like a Model 3 long range within the UK that you need a plug in hybrid.
I had a lexus NX, over the 3 years or so I owned I averaged 28mpg according to trip computer - near half the official.
If you can charge at home then get an EV, there's no journey you can't do in something like a Model 3 long range within the UK that you need a plug in hybrid.
Not sure what the XC40 is, but a lot of (what used to be called ) petrol cars are now called Mild Hybrids (MHEV) where it’s more like enhanced stop / start - there is a little or no EV running, where the hybrid power is used to assist the engine on moving off, not to replace it.
A ‘non-plug in’, full hybrid (as per some Toyota offerings) or FHEV will run for a while on EV but you can’t plug it in to charge, it just regenerates driving about.
A plug in hybrid (PHEV) relies on running around in EV mode after being charged to get the headline mpg figures, if you can’t charge it at home or work it’s not particularly economical, I’ve never known mine get anywhere near fully regenerating the battery via braking, hills, etc.
A ‘non-plug in’, full hybrid (as per some Toyota offerings) or FHEV will run for a while on EV but you can’t plug it in to charge, it just regenerates driving about.
A plug in hybrid (PHEV) relies on running around in EV mode after being charged to get the headline mpg figures, if you can’t charge it at home or work it’s not particularly economical, I’ve never known mine get anywhere near fully regenerating the battery via braking, hills, etc.
I've had a PHEV for nearly 3 years. They can work really well if your usage pattern fits.
Mine has been charged pretty much twice a day (overnight at home and during the day at work) and I've done a massive % of my mileage on electric.
Long journeys are no issue, just use petrol.
If you can charge at home and will be able to maximise EV running through your normal usage then go for it.
Bear in mind you are unlikely to get anywhere near the official EV range unless it's warm and you drive very carefully.
Mine has been charged pretty much twice a day (overnight at home and during the day at work) and I've done a massive % of my mileage on electric.
Long journeys are no issue, just use petrol.
If you can charge at home and will be able to maximise EV running through your normal usage then go for it.
Bear in mind you are unlikely to get anywhere near the official EV range unless it's warm and you drive very carefully.
PHEVs are the best of both worlds. We’ve owned an XC60 for around 18 months. It gets you the turbine smooth and silent driving of an EV, without needing to think about where to charge up. And when you’re in the mood it also gets you the noise and excitement of a 450bhp ICE.
The boring bits: ours gets us 30-45 miles on battery depending on how cold it is and what your mix is of journey length and speed. Lots of short journeys on icy days on national speed limit roads sees you at the bottom end. It gets 39-45mpg once the battery is flat on long journeys, provided you stick to speed limits. It weighs about the same as a similar EV.
They make no sense at all if you can’t charge at home at off peak rates (we pay 5p), unless you just want turbine smooth driving and aren’t worried about costs.
The boring bits: ours gets us 30-45 miles on battery depending on how cold it is and what your mix is of journey length and speed. Lots of short journeys on icy days on national speed limit roads sees you at the bottom end. It gets 39-45mpg once the battery is flat on long journeys, provided you stick to speed limits. It weighs about the same as a similar EV.
They make no sense at all if you can’t charge at home at off peak rates (we pay 5p), unless you just want turbine smooth driving and aren’t worried about costs.
I’m a private hire driver and drive a 2019 1.8 Corolla estate.
Drive approximately 800 miles a week on average,mainly around town and achieve an indicated
65-68 mpg in the winter and mid 70’s in the summer.
Although brim to brim fill up it works out between 59-63 mpg in the winter.
Very comfortable/stress free car to drive.
Drive approximately 800 miles a week on average,mainly around town and achieve an indicated
65-68 mpg in the winter and mid 70’s in the summer.
Although brim to brim fill up it works out between 59-63 mpg in the winter.
Very comfortable/stress free car to drive.
Plug ins were always the preserve of the tax dodgers ( historically). They were sat around LEZ / ULEZ areas, with ( unused ) cables in the boot mostly, with dead hybrid units, because they were never going to be used in reality, It’s probably still the same thing. If you really want to be an eco friendly motorist, full hybrid / BEV is your best bet.
PHEV’s are normally acquired via Ltd companies due to tax breaks.
PHEV’s have to lug around 200kg-300k of batteries to run as an EV for 30-50 miles. When the battery runs low the engine kicks in and it’s usually a smaller and less economical than the engine in the non-PHEV model.
A mild-hybrid has a small light battery that improves the efficiency of the engine. I have a couple that easily averages 40-50mpg. One of those is a full-fat Range Rover.
Then there’s Toyota who have a clever non-plugin system that automatically swaps between running on EV/engine/combined and recharges the battery as you drive. My friend has one of these and easily averages 60mpg+.
Personally, I don’t see the point of PHEV’s unless you want to take advantage of the tax break.
PHEV’s have to lug around 200kg-300k of batteries to run as an EV for 30-50 miles. When the battery runs low the engine kicks in and it’s usually a smaller and less economical than the engine in the non-PHEV model.
A mild-hybrid has a small light battery that improves the efficiency of the engine. I have a couple that easily averages 40-50mpg. One of those is a full-fat Range Rover.
Then there’s Toyota who have a clever non-plugin system that automatically swaps between running on EV/engine/combined and recharges the battery as you drive. My friend has one of these and easily averages 60mpg+.
Personally, I don’t see the point of PHEV’s unless you want to take advantage of the tax break.
We had an XC40 B4 (Mild Hybrid) as a courtesy car for abit while our car was in for some work.
I was really impressed with it. Silky smooth with the combo of electric and petrol, ridiculously comfortable and easy to drive. Even had a bit of pace when needed. It made me regret buying the VW we had recently purchased but the XC40 seem to hold their money extremely well and the right ones were above what we were willing to pay for a dog car.
We managed high 30s/low 40s with a mix of country roads and town driving which I didn’t think was bad at all. Couldn’t even tell when the electric part was doing its job and any change over was seamless.
I was really impressed with it. Silky smooth with the combo of electric and petrol, ridiculously comfortable and easy to drive. Even had a bit of pace when needed. It made me regret buying the VW we had recently purchased but the XC40 seem to hold their money extremely well and the right ones were above what we were willing to pay for a dog car.
We managed high 30s/low 40s with a mix of country roads and town driving which I didn’t think was bad at all. Couldn’t even tell when the electric part was doing its job and any change over was seamless.
Phil. said:
PHEV’s have to lug around 200kg-300k of batteries to run as an EV for 30-50 miles.
The Volvo V60 PHEV battery weighs 150kg. The equivalent of a couple of passengers. I can live with that. This extra weight is irrelevant from the point of view of fuel consumption above 40 mph. PHEV can be a bit of a minefield as not all are created equal. The system used by Toyota in the Rav4/Lexus NX/Suzuki Across is one of the best.
It's seamless in it's transition from battery/ice; has excellent performance on all modes (regardless of battery charge); doesn't compromise boot space and has good economy with a flat battery. Importantly, the EV motors generate 240hp, which is one of those pitfalls of other PHEV system, ie Volvo only has 89 or 140bhp in their equivalent xc60. And all in a reliable Japanese package with a 10 year warranty.
Just like a full EV it is better if you can charge at home, otherwise the self charging version makes sense.
We've had ours for 4000 miles/5 months and to date 75% of the mileage has been done under EV doing local journeys. The other 25% has been hassel free longer journeys where we've seen 45 to 50mpg this winter. It really fits our usage perfectly and is the best of both worlds.
It's seamless in it's transition from battery/ice; has excellent performance on all modes (regardless of battery charge); doesn't compromise boot space and has good economy with a flat battery. Importantly, the EV motors generate 240hp, which is one of those pitfalls of other PHEV system, ie Volvo only has 89 or 140bhp in their equivalent xc60. And all in a reliable Japanese package with a 10 year warranty.
Just like a full EV it is better if you can charge at home, otherwise the self charging version makes sense.
We've had ours for 4000 miles/5 months and to date 75% of the mileage has been done under EV doing local journeys. The other 25% has been hassel free longer journeys where we've seen 45 to 50mpg this winter. It really fits our usage perfectly and is the best of both worlds.
Pickle_Rick said:
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, as heavier than a pure ICE car, more complex and efficiency is poor outside of town driving.
I had a lexus NX, over the 3 years or so I owned I averaged 28mpg according to trip computer - near half the official.
If you can charge at home then get an EV, there's no journey you can't do in something like a Model 3 long range within the UK that you need a plug in hybrid.
Get bored of hearing this “worst of both worlds” nonsense. I had a lexus NX, over the 3 years or so I owned I averaged 28mpg according to trip computer - near half the official.
If you can charge at home then get an EV, there's no journey you can't do in something like a Model 3 long range within the UK that you need a plug in hybrid.
I’ve owned my Corolla for the last 2 1/2 years. Been quite happy with 60mpg thanks.
BoomerPride said:
Phil. said:
PHEV’s have to lug around 200kg-300k of batteries to run as an EV for 30-50 miles.
The Volvo V60 PHEV battery weighs 150kg. The equivalent of a couple of passengers. I can live with that. This extra weight is irrelevant from the point of view of fuel consumption above 40 mph. Phil. said:
150kg of battery means poor PHEV electric miles and reduced economy compared to a mild-hybrid. Pretty poor performance all around.
It patently doesn’t. If it did, a full fat EV, lugging around a battery that’s at least 4 times bigger would get even worse EV electric miles than a PHEV. And reduced economy compared to a mild hybrid is also untrue - the smaller generator and motor of a mild hybrid gives it less capacity to run the ICE at its peak efficiency than is possible with a PHEV.
The misinformation that people feel the need to jump in with and spew every time a PHEV is mentioned is nearly as tedious as the misinformation people post about EVs.
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