Ferrari FF/ GTC4 Lusso / T - am I mad?
Discussion
Considering the above. Definitely a brave pill as I am not wealthy, but have enough disposable income and a you only live once attitude. It would be my first Ferrari and stored outside on a drive in a relatively safe area.
This would be instead of a used 992.1 GTS or leasing a new Panamera.
Onto the man maths:
Purchase price: £120,000 (buy on condition, not age).
Depreciation over 5+ years. £20k max- possibly zero.
Pre purchase inspection £?
Annual scheduled maintenance: average £2k
Annual self insurance cost for things going bang (e.g. PTU/ Suspension/ Electrics). £5k I'm assuming I'll be unlucky if I have £25k of
Tyres: £1k per 10,000 miles
Brakes: £10k per 40,000 miles - maybe
Finance costs? I would pay up to 50% deposit Assume 9% apr?
I would do around 5000 miles a year max.
Road tax and fuel: astronomical.
Insurance: quoted at £900 year.
So not including fuel- does £60k averaging over 5 years/ £12k a year including finance costs sound reasonable? I think that's about the same as leasing and running a Panamera, but more expensive than running a 992.1 GTS.
This would be instead of a used 992.1 GTS or leasing a new Panamera.
Onto the man maths:
Purchase price: £120,000 (buy on condition, not age).
Depreciation over 5+ years. £20k max- possibly zero.
Pre purchase inspection £?
Annual scheduled maintenance: average £2k
Annual self insurance cost for things going bang (e.g. PTU/ Suspension/ Electrics). £5k I'm assuming I'll be unlucky if I have £25k of
Tyres: £1k per 10,000 miles
Brakes: £10k per 40,000 miles - maybe
Finance costs? I would pay up to 50% deposit Assume 9% apr?
I would do around 5000 miles a year max.
Road tax and fuel: astronomical.
Insurance: quoted at £900 year.
So not including fuel- does £60k averaging over 5 years/ £12k a year including finance costs sound reasonable? I think that's about the same as leasing and running a Panamera, but more expensive than running a 992.1 GTS.
Maths understood, you’d be daft not to consider the numbers but they tend to disappear when you’re out and about on a drive/hoon. The costs more than make up for the smiles.
As for depreciation, tricky one. Buy well and you shouldn’t see much, if at all. If you don't buy well (or sensibly) then the numbers will be eye-watering.
As for depreciation, tricky one. Buy well and you shouldn’t see much, if at all. If you don't buy well (or sensibly) then the numbers will be eye-watering.
Edited by Batfoy on Friday 16th May 13:48
Interesting man maths, I like it.
I presume, given that you are comparing it to a Pamamera or 911, that you need rear seats and that is why you are looking at these Ferraris in particular. First thing I would note is that "£20k max" depreciation is potentially optimistic. The 4-seat V12 Ferraris are not like the V8s or V12 supercars, they don't plateu and then hold their value, they fall and keep falling, albeit more slowly. Consider that £60000 will easily get you a 612, and FFs start at just £85000 now, so I definitely wouldn't be spending £120000 on a GTC4 expecting it to hold its value. Over 5 years I'd expect a pretty big hit.
Also, unless you can find one to buy privately (and there aren't many), you need to add about £10k to £15k loss the moment you pick it up, more if you go for an approved used model; dealer margin on these is high. Imagine 5 years from now you are selling it and looking to get back £50k less than you paid, which is a realistic possibility. If that thought makes you wince then maybe reconsider.
No idea on your financial circumstances, but if you can genuinely afford it then there is nothing like owning your own Ferrari. My 430 was far from cheap to run, but worth every penny.
I presume, given that you are comparing it to a Pamamera or 911, that you need rear seats and that is why you are looking at these Ferraris in particular. First thing I would note is that "£20k max" depreciation is potentially optimistic. The 4-seat V12 Ferraris are not like the V8s or V12 supercars, they don't plateu and then hold their value, they fall and keep falling, albeit more slowly. Consider that £60000 will easily get you a 612, and FFs start at just £85000 now, so I definitely wouldn't be spending £120000 on a GTC4 expecting it to hold its value. Over 5 years I'd expect a pretty big hit.
Also, unless you can find one to buy privately (and there aren't many), you need to add about £10k to £15k loss the moment you pick it up, more if you go for an approved used model; dealer margin on these is high. Imagine 5 years from now you are selling it and looking to get back £50k less than you paid, which is a realistic possibility. If that thought makes you wince then maybe reconsider.
No idea on your financial circumstances, but if you can genuinely afford it then there is nothing like owning your own Ferrari. My 430 was far from cheap to run, but worth every penny.
I’d agree.
I had a v12 Lusso for circa 20 months, bought with 3k miles, sold with 12k miles. From memory I paid £190k and traded at £160k after a lot of haggling. I think I was offered £140k to start with! This was also at the tail end of the covid boom.
You’ll clearly be buying a cheaper car, but I’d still budget £1k/month minimum depreciation on a £120k car.
I had a v12 Lusso for circa 20 months, bought with 3k miles, sold with 12k miles. From memory I paid £190k and traded at £160k after a lot of haggling. I think I was offered £140k to start with! This was also at the tail end of the covid boom.
You’ll clearly be buying a cheaper car, but I’d still budget £1k/month minimum depreciation on a £120k car.
I chickened out of an F12 in 2021/22 as I worked out it could cost me upwards of £30k per year just to own, for a 4th car, which may do 2-3k miles a year max. That was finance costs, depreciation & buy/sell price spread, warranty, servicing and consumables on a car costing around £160k.
Looking back, I seriously wish I'd done it - they've barely depreciated, in fact maybe even appreciated slightly, so in reality the 3 year ownership costs up to now would probably have been similar to the Aston I decided to keep instead.
Looking back, I seriously wish I'd done it - they've barely depreciated, in fact maybe even appreciated slightly, so in reality the 3 year ownership costs up to now would probably have been similar to the Aston I decided to keep instead.
I'd expect a £120k FF to have shed 30-50% of its value after 5 years and 25k miles.
I also never owned a Ferrari, but annual servicing on an "old-ish" Ferrari surely run closer to £5k a year average than £1k ?
Either way, I'm sure the man maths can be made to work
I'd love a FF or GTC4
I also never owned a Ferrari, but annual servicing on an "old-ish" Ferrari surely run closer to £5k a year average than £1k ?
Either way, I'm sure the man maths can be made to work
I'd love a FF or GTC4There is a great readers cars thread on an FF. I’ll try and find it…
ETA - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
ETA - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
as above, defo read the FF thread.
depreciation wise, i think you're better off with an FF only because its done a lot of its depreciation already compared to a GTC which still has some room to fall. Other than the odd high mileage or ropey car, i cant see an FF really being a 60k car - the pool of FF's is so small i think they've plateaud and hovered around the same price for the last couple of years now.
Man maths looks about right - i think for an FF you can drop the initial purchase price by £10k for a good FF these days. I'd also reconsider putting around 50% deposit down too. Depending on the lender and how much you're borrowing, they may cap your deposit amount at or around 40% - interest is the name of the game, the more they lend you, the more they can make off of it.
depreciation wise, i think you're better off with an FF only because its done a lot of its depreciation already compared to a GTC which still has some room to fall. Other than the odd high mileage or ropey car, i cant see an FF really being a 60k car - the pool of FF's is so small i think they've plateaud and hovered around the same price for the last couple of years now.
Man maths looks about right - i think for an FF you can drop the initial purchase price by £10k for a good FF these days. I'd also reconsider putting around 50% deposit down too. Depending on the lender and how much you're borrowing, they may cap your deposit amount at or around 40% - interest is the name of the game, the more they lend you, the more they can make off of it.
andrewpandrew said:
There is a great readers cars thread on an FF. I’ll try and find it…
ETA - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks all & especially andrewpandrew for the link to the above thread- which didn't put me off!ETA - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In the past I've been guilty of buying the first car I see- but I'm not rushing into this one.
I honestly don't think it will depreciate much, if at all- and I'm prepared to gamble on that. For example the previous 612 hasn't really lost that much in 10 years and I think the FF/ GTC4 Lusso will hold even firmer- given they are objectively a better/prettier car and currently the last in the proper 4 seat Ferrari GT bloodline.
Watch this space!
Might be worth looking at how long some of those cars have been for sale. Just because they are advertised at that price doesn’t mean they are selling.
There is a 360 near me that has been on and off the market longer than I owned my California.
I’m not saying all cars are the same, but they can be a hard sell privately, and you’d have to consider how you would move it on if you need to.
There is a 360 near me that has been on and off the market longer than I owned my California.
I’m not saying all cars are the same, but they can be a hard sell privately, and you’d have to consider how you would move it on if you need to.
Might be worth looking at how long some of those cars have been for sale. Just because they are advertised at that price doesn’t mean they are selling.
There is a 360 near me that has been on and off the market longer than I owned my California.
I’m not saying all cars are the same, but they can be a hard sell privately, and you’d have to consider how you would move it on if you need to.
There is a 360 near me that has been on and off the market longer than I owned my California.
I’m not saying all cars are the same, but they can be a hard sell privately, and you’d have to consider how you would move it on if you need to.
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