To go electric or not??
Discussion
I commute to Heathrow 95 miles round trip 15-16 days a month in my 2017 80000 mile Toyota GT86 which averages 35mpg. I reckon I'm putting in £300-£350 a month of fuel. No repayments but servicing and insurance and tyres equals £100 a month, road tax £20, insurance £50 = Total £470 a month.
Wife commutes to Portsmouth 16 days a month in Saab 9-5 Diesel which with her heavy right foot averages about 32mpg. I reckon she too is using £300 a month in fuel, her car costs £100 a month in maintenance, £50 in insurance and £20 road tax so around £470 a month as well, maybe more because the Saab is more prone than my warrantied Toyota to sudden bills for stuff breaking.
Having just got 2 ebikes we really need to get a tow bar mount and that's apparently £700-£800 fitted on the Saab. Rather than spend money on a car we might be changing I have not done this yet - which is a pain as we want to use the bikes further afield this summer.
Many colleagues at work have been getting cars on the tax effficient electric car scheme and love it. My wife and I would really like an SUV as we like camping, kayaking and need to bring bikes etc. So I have been running some numbers.
For £520 a month net salary deduction I can put a brand new Toyota BZ4X or Ford Explorer on the drive at 20000 miles a year. This £520 a month includes charger installation, factory fit tow bar, all maintenance, tyres, servicing and insurance. It's thus also an insurance against the Saab which it would replace suddenly throwing up a big bill (it's 15 years old with 90 000 miles).
I'm a little unclear on Octupus charging costs but work colleagues reckon it's around £10 for a full charge at home giving a theoretical 280 mile range (around 250 miles in real life)
I'm 56 and plan to retire in around 4 years, so I was thinking with electric cars depreciating like a stone I should be able to buy the Toyota SUV for a sensibly low price and run it in retirement - as a 4 year old electric SUV it should have plenty more years left of reliable and cheap motoring.
The other thing I need to factor in is that I have a precat Griff in lovely condition in the garage which I have owned since 1996. I love open top cars but in retirement I won't want the thirst and running costs of the TVR or its heavy controls either (I have arthritis in the ankles). What I really need is a nice MX5 - cheap to run, reliable, fun to drive and crucially open top. I'm thinking of selling the Griff at some point in the next couple of years - maybe sooner to help fund the daughter through Uni. I will run up to Heathrow in the GT86 because I suspect with its tin roof its a bit safer than an MX5 and then when I retire I will sell the GT86 and buy myself the nicest cherry red metallic MX5 I can find.
The retirement fleet will thus be MX5 for fun and Toyota BZ4X SUV electric for camping/general driving - thus lowering costs considerably.
A second option would be to sell the TVR and the GT86 now and get an MX5 and commute in it until retirement thus keeping an open top in my life.
I'm coming round more and more to the idea of going electric but I would really welcome any views on this plan. I've had fantastic reliability from the three Toyotas I have owned plus other Jap cars in general. Having owned the TVR, Jags and a Land Rover Discovery I feel like I have paid my dues (and a high proportion of my salary!!) into British cars over the years but now I just want reliability, a bit of fun, low running costs and a hassle free life.
Thoughts?
Saxon
Wife commutes to Portsmouth 16 days a month in Saab 9-5 Diesel which with her heavy right foot averages about 32mpg. I reckon she too is using £300 a month in fuel, her car costs £100 a month in maintenance, £50 in insurance and £20 road tax so around £470 a month as well, maybe more because the Saab is more prone than my warrantied Toyota to sudden bills for stuff breaking.
Having just got 2 ebikes we really need to get a tow bar mount and that's apparently £700-£800 fitted on the Saab. Rather than spend money on a car we might be changing I have not done this yet - which is a pain as we want to use the bikes further afield this summer.
Many colleagues at work have been getting cars on the tax effficient electric car scheme and love it. My wife and I would really like an SUV as we like camping, kayaking and need to bring bikes etc. So I have been running some numbers.
For £520 a month net salary deduction I can put a brand new Toyota BZ4X or Ford Explorer on the drive at 20000 miles a year. This £520 a month includes charger installation, factory fit tow bar, all maintenance, tyres, servicing and insurance. It's thus also an insurance against the Saab which it would replace suddenly throwing up a big bill (it's 15 years old with 90 000 miles).
I'm a little unclear on Octupus charging costs but work colleagues reckon it's around £10 for a full charge at home giving a theoretical 280 mile range (around 250 miles in real life)
I'm 56 and plan to retire in around 4 years, so I was thinking with electric cars depreciating like a stone I should be able to buy the Toyota SUV for a sensibly low price and run it in retirement - as a 4 year old electric SUV it should have plenty more years left of reliable and cheap motoring.
The other thing I need to factor in is that I have a precat Griff in lovely condition in the garage which I have owned since 1996. I love open top cars but in retirement I won't want the thirst and running costs of the TVR or its heavy controls either (I have arthritis in the ankles). What I really need is a nice MX5 - cheap to run, reliable, fun to drive and crucially open top. I'm thinking of selling the Griff at some point in the next couple of years - maybe sooner to help fund the daughter through Uni. I will run up to Heathrow in the GT86 because I suspect with its tin roof its a bit safer than an MX5 and then when I retire I will sell the GT86 and buy myself the nicest cherry red metallic MX5 I can find.
The retirement fleet will thus be MX5 for fun and Toyota BZ4X SUV electric for camping/general driving - thus lowering costs considerably.
A second option would be to sell the TVR and the GT86 now and get an MX5 and commute in it until retirement thus keeping an open top in my life.
I'm coming round more and more to the idea of going electric but I would really welcome any views on this plan. I've had fantastic reliability from the three Toyotas I have owned plus other Jap cars in general. Having owned the TVR, Jags and a Land Rover Discovery I feel like I have paid my dues (and a high proportion of my salary!!) into British cars over the years but now I just want reliability, a bit of fun, low running costs and a hassle free life.
Thoughts?
Saxon
We recently made the leap to an EV from ICE SUVs and, so far, it’s been brilliant.
If you can make the range and charging work for them they’re so much better than a mundane four pot ICE. Super smooth, super quiet, instant torque and total ease of use. They’re perfect for A to B motoring in comfort and I doubt I’d go back to ICE for a daily.
Our diesel bill was about £200 a month and the Octopus overnight charging is working out about evens with the old tariff as we’ve load shifted to the off peak hours. The saving is about £200 a month and the BMW iX3 on PCP is £236 (about £400 when you consider the loss of the deposit). Financially it’s a no-brainer.
However, if you’re a petrolhead and enjoy driving you will certainly need something on the side with a proper engine.
If you can make the range and charging work for them they’re so much better than a mundane four pot ICE. Super smooth, super quiet, instant torque and total ease of use. They’re perfect for A to B motoring in comfort and I doubt I’d go back to ICE for a daily.
Our diesel bill was about £200 a month and the Octopus overnight charging is working out about evens with the old tariff as we’ve load shifted to the off peak hours. The saving is about £200 a month and the BMW iX3 on PCP is £236 (about £400 when you consider the loss of the deposit). Financially it’s a no-brainer.
However, if you’re a petrolhead and enjoy driving you will certainly need something on the side with a proper engine.
Can't comment on the Toyota, however I went for a Ford Explorer on Octopus's SS replacing a Seat Ateca and couldn't be happier. It does 250 miles minimum even during the winter (currently about 340 miles in the warmer weather). Near 300 bhp is nice and most of all as Octopus added a 'free' charger which gives us access to 6p/kWh off-peak electricity gives a 'fill' cost of £4.62.
saxon said:
I'm a little unclear on Octupus charging costs but work colleagues reckon it's around £10 for a full charge at home giving a theoretical 280 mile range (around 250 miles in real life)
Intelligent Octopus Go is 7p/kWh. My VW has a 77kWh battery, so if you charged it from 0% to 100% (which never happens) it would cost £5.39.In reality, a 20% > 80% charge costS about £3, and in my case lasts me most of a week.
as others have said, it's very easy to work out how much it costs to charge a car
it's just the size of the battery multiplied by how much it costs ppu (pence per unit) - my wife and I both have roughly 60kwh batteries in our cars, so that's roughly 60 units of electricity.
we're wih EON drive and their night rate (midnight to 7am) is 7ppu - so roughly £4.20 to charge empty to full
we both get over 200 miles in summer and roughly 180 during winter....
when you consider a gallon of petrol is now £6 (just checked the average gallon price on RAC checker) it means generally we're getting >200mpg equivalent
it's just the size of the battery multiplied by how much it costs ppu (pence per unit) - my wife and I both have roughly 60kwh batteries in our cars, so that's roughly 60 units of electricity.
we're wih EON drive and their night rate (midnight to 7am) is 7ppu - so roughly £4.20 to charge empty to full
we both get over 200 miles in summer and roughly 180 during winter....
when you consider a gallon of petrol is now £6 (just checked the average gallon price on RAC checker) it means generally we're getting >200mpg equivalent
Terminator X said:
You might save on fuel but surely you lose on catastrophic depreciation? Even if paid monthly that must be factored in.
TX.
Again, if you're leasing the finance company are taking the risk on depreciation, not the user. As long as the user is happy with the overall costs (news flash, my Ford Explorer is cheaper than the previous Ateca) where's the problem?TX.
Oh, and the OP is banking on that!
saxon said:
I'm 56 and plan to retire in around 4 years, so I was thinking with electric cars depreciating like a stone I should be able to buy the Toyota SUV for a sensibly low price and run it in retirement - as a 4 year old electric SUV it should have plenty more years left of reliable and cheap motoring.
OK my take on this as a recent convert to EV. Moved house last September meaning my work commute went from 12 miles to 80 per shift, I work an average of 4 shifts a week.
I was running a 2017 Golf TSI Tech as the daily driver averaging 49mpg on the commute (so not bad) plus I had an 2015 MX5 Recaro Sport as a toy (had previously been my daily for 5 of the 6 1/2 years I owned it it did 38 mpg average commute / running around.
So in Feb I swapped both for a 2021 KIA Soul EV, in fact I got the car and £1500 so that paid for the charger install.
My combined insurance costs have fallen by £200 a year, Road fund from £255 (I think) to £0 (until next year). my monthly 'fuel' cost has fallen from roughly £320 to £30.
The Kia is niice to drive, has all the toys I need including Harmon / Kardon stereo, heated seats and steering wheel (ghame changer) it's surprising swift and quite chuckable.
My commute being mainly motorway - 36 of the 39 miles each way is the least effecient way to run an EV but so far (bear in mind how cold it was in Feb / March but I am averaging aroiund 3.5 miles per KWH which gives me a genuine range of around 200 miles (recently with the better weather it's gone up to 220) which means I can easily do 2 days commute on a charge and then charge at home over night.
I'm a convert, it works for me in my in my particular circumstances and sounds like it would for you OP. Go drive a couple if you haven't already.
I was running a 2017 Golf TSI Tech as the daily driver averaging 49mpg on the commute (so not bad) plus I had an 2015 MX5 Recaro Sport as a toy (had previously been my daily for 5 of the 6 1/2 years I owned it it did 38 mpg average commute / running around.
So in Feb I swapped both for a 2021 KIA Soul EV, in fact I got the car and £1500 so that paid for the charger install.
My combined insurance costs have fallen by £200 a year, Road fund from £255 (I think) to £0 (until next year). my monthly 'fuel' cost has fallen from roughly £320 to £30.
The Kia is niice to drive, has all the toys I need including Harmon / Kardon stereo, heated seats and steering wheel (ghame changer) it's surprising swift and quite chuckable.
My commute being mainly motorway - 36 of the 39 miles each way is the least effecient way to run an EV but so far (bear in mind how cold it was in Feb / March but I am averaging aroiund 3.5 miles per KWH which gives me a genuine range of around 200 miles (recently with the better weather it's gone up to 220) which means I can easily do 2 days commute on a charge and then charge at home over night.
I'm a convert, it works for me in my in my particular circumstances and sounds like it would for you OP. Go drive a couple if you haven't already.
Sounds like you've given it a good amount of thought and the logic seems sound.
I would look at alternative EVs though - the Ford is pretty decent (basically an ID4) but the Toyota is widely regarded as one of the worst vehicles in its class with poor efficiency, charging speeds and all round ability. The EV SUV is one of the most competitive classes so there's lots of different vehicles to choose from.
I would look at alternative EVs though - the Ford is pretty decent (basically an ID4) but the Toyota is widely regarded as one of the worst vehicles in its class with poor efficiency, charging speeds and all round ability. The EV SUV is one of the most competitive classes so there's lots of different vehicles to choose from.
Sounds like a good plan to me but just wanted to add to the pile-on of BZ4X. Don't reward Toyota for a) making the bare-minimum electric SUV b) offensive self-charging hybrid marketing. Explorers seem to be pretty decent but are not selling well hence the good deals on salary sacrifice.
Fairly similar position here.
I'm 53 and have an MX5 RF ND2 which I bought used last year. Fantastic little car which I use mainly for going to work locally and for fun at weekends. It's got 7500 miles on it and I've done just 3500 of those over the last year. All being well it'll easily last me the next ten years or more until I'm retired (hopefully).
My wife runs our main family car which will be due for replacement in a year or two. It probably does around 8k miles a year so fuel costs are okay. But I am thinking about going electric next time. Either that or spending much less on a slightly newer ICE car with less miles.
She is a big fan of Hyundai and I like the look of the latest Kona in top spec. The earliest 73 plates are about 25k now so I'd hope for less than 20k in a couple of years. We would be buying used.
The only thing putting me off is that we like to take UK breaks in holiday cottages a few times a year where we would have to rely on public charging. It probably feels like more of an issue than it really is to someone who has never had to do it.
OP, you mentioned the tin top GT86 being better for a commute. I have no problems with the RF in that respect. It lives outside on the drive and gets used all year round. If I had a garage and only used it in good weather I'd maybe have gone for the soft top but the RF suits my usage very well.
I'm 53 and have an MX5 RF ND2 which I bought used last year. Fantastic little car which I use mainly for going to work locally and for fun at weekends. It's got 7500 miles on it and I've done just 3500 of those over the last year. All being well it'll easily last me the next ten years or more until I'm retired (hopefully).
My wife runs our main family car which will be due for replacement in a year or two. It probably does around 8k miles a year so fuel costs are okay. But I am thinking about going electric next time. Either that or spending much less on a slightly newer ICE car with less miles.
She is a big fan of Hyundai and I like the look of the latest Kona in top spec. The earliest 73 plates are about 25k now so I'd hope for less than 20k in a couple of years. We would be buying used.
The only thing putting me off is that we like to take UK breaks in holiday cottages a few times a year where we would have to rely on public charging. It probably feels like more of an issue than it really is to someone who has never had to do it.
OP, you mentioned the tin top GT86 being better for a commute. I have no problems with the RF in that respect. It lives outside on the drive and gets used all year round. If I had a garage and only used it in good weather I'd maybe have gone for the soft top but the RF suits my usage very well.
Terminator X said:
You might save on fuel but surely you lose on catastrophic depreciation? Even if paid monthly that must be factored in.
TX.
1) It is factored inTX.
2) It's also factored into all new leases, as all new cars depreciate, not just EV's
e.g. Lease a new diesel and the depreciation cost is barley any different to a new EV
Finally - in all like-for-like cases, Salary Sacrificing a fuel car is more expensive than an EV, BEFORE you even consider the 10x cheaper EV running costs
Edited by SDK on Monday 19th May 13:00
We've just gone full electric for our fleet.
It's a really great way to commute. Never having to go to a petrol station is also a huge bonus, it's just so convenient to plug in at home and not worry about it.
As others have said though take along hard look at the Toyota. It was my least favourite of all the cars I tried by quite some margin. The ford would likely be the better bet but it's probably a matter of personal choice.
Not sure what age and mileage the gt86 has got on it but high miles seems to really hit mx5 residuals hard (feels like its harder than other cars but maybe that's just my perception) so putting 20k a year on one may not be the most cost effective thing to do compared to sticking with the Toyota
It's a really great way to commute. Never having to go to a petrol station is also a huge bonus, it's just so convenient to plug in at home and not worry about it.
As others have said though take along hard look at the Toyota. It was my least favourite of all the cars I tried by quite some margin. The ford would likely be the better bet but it's probably a matter of personal choice.
Not sure what age and mileage the gt86 has got on it but high miles seems to really hit mx5 residuals hard (feels like its harder than other cars but maybe that's just my perception) so putting 20k a year on one may not be the most cost effective thing to do compared to sticking with the Toyota
ChrisH72 said:
Fairly similar position here.
I'm 53 and have an MX5 RF ND2 which I bought used last year. Fantastic little car which I use mainly for going to work locally and for fun at weekends. It's got 7500 miles on it and I've done just 3500 of those over the last year. All being well it'll easily last me the next ten years or more until I'm retired (hopefully).
My wife runs our main family car which will be due for replacement in a year or two. It probably does around 8k miles a year so fuel costs are okay. But I am thinking about going electric next time. Either that or spending much less on a slightly newer ICE car with less miles.
She is a big fan of Hyundai and I like the look of the latest Kona in top spec. The earliest 73 plates are about 25k now so I'd hope for less than 20k in a couple of years. We would be buying used.
The only thing putting me off is that we like to take UK breaks in holiday cottages a few times a year where we would have to rely on public charging. It probably feels like more of an issue than it really is to someone who has never had to do it.
OP, you mentioned the tin top GT86 being better for a commute. I have no problems with the RF in that respect. It lives outside on the drive and gets used all year round. If I had a garage and only used it in good weather I'd maybe have gone for the soft top but the RF suits my usage very well.
There are an increasing number of holiday cottages now offering EV chargers. We stayed in North Yorks last months and the cottage we chose had a charger. It will increasingly become a requirement for them to offer if they want to stay competitive as the transition to EVs continues to gather pace. 'EV charger' is now a filterable option on a number of the booking sites to help find them.I'm 53 and have an MX5 RF ND2 which I bought used last year. Fantastic little car which I use mainly for going to work locally and for fun at weekends. It's got 7500 miles on it and I've done just 3500 of those over the last year. All being well it'll easily last me the next ten years or more until I'm retired (hopefully).
My wife runs our main family car which will be due for replacement in a year or two. It probably does around 8k miles a year so fuel costs are okay. But I am thinking about going electric next time. Either that or spending much less on a slightly newer ICE car with less miles.
She is a big fan of Hyundai and I like the look of the latest Kona in top spec. The earliest 73 plates are about 25k now so I'd hope for less than 20k in a couple of years. We would be buying used.
The only thing putting me off is that we like to take UK breaks in holiday cottages a few times a year where we would have to rely on public charging. It probably feels like more of an issue than it really is to someone who has never had to do it.
OP, you mentioned the tin top GT86 being better for a commute. I have no problems with the RF in that respect. It lives outside on the drive and gets used all year round. If I had a garage and only used it in good weather I'd maybe have gone for the soft top but the RF suits my usage very well.
plfrench said:
There are an increasing number of holiday cottages now offering EV chargers. We stayed in North Yorks last months and the cottage we chose had a charger. It will increasingly become a requirement for them to offer if they want to stay competitive as the transition to EVs continues to gather pace. 'EV charger' is now a filterable option on a number of the booking sites to help find them.
Even if they do not have a dedicated charger, you can ask the owner/agent if they would allow youto use a 'granny' charger overnight if you pay an extra fee to cover the electricity used and a bit extra
for the convenience.
We have done this on several occasions over the past few years, and have only been refused once,
but note that you will probably need to get a 13amp rated extension lead like this one if you do so,
as allocated parking for holiday cottages is often a fair distance from the nearest door/window.
PistonTim said:
The Toyota is a terrible mediocre EV, one to avoid.
As a GT86 / Toyota fan boy I'm very disappointed to concur on this. They get very poor reviews. check this guy out;https://youtu.be/l2tzln6UD-Q?si=QGNiHlz3g7J0pcYY
Edited by Andy86GT on Monday 19th May 19:09
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