Another right to reject question…
Discussion
Apologies but I did have a search through other topics and struggling to find an answer to this…
Bought a BMW from a large chain dealership 28 days ago. Test drove it and didn’t notice anything untoward. After completing paperwork turns out V5 was missing, so they drove me to local post office to fill out V62. During that trip over which included speed bumps noticed a knocking from the front, suspension related. Asked Salesman if he could hear it; confirmed noise.
Immediately booked in with their service department the following week, who replaced lower control arms, and top mounts. Vehicle returned to me after 3 days of work.
First speed bumps it became apparent noise is still there, and if anything now worse. Dealer rung again, but now can’t fit me in for over 3 weeks, past the 30 day rejection period. Bit of a struggle and it went in this week. They asked for technician to come on test drive to hear the noise. First speed bump, technician confirms knock and says it’ll be sorted. I also have a video of the car making the noise over speed bumps.
They replaced front shock - garage rang me to confirm noise still present. They then take it to BMW main dealer who had it for 2 days, can’t find the cause of the noise. Original dealer now saying that as BMW can’t find the cause, it isn’t a mechanical issue, and can I come and collect the car today…
Decided to exercise my right of rejection on the grounds the fault was present on day one, they’ve had the car for a total of 6 days had 2 opportunities and have failed to repair it. I’ve been passed around departments now, with sales saying it’s a service issue, service saying they can’t sort it, and head of business saying service manager who is on leave until next week will need to speak to me to confirm fault and rejection. ,
But head of business stated if there is no mechanical fault they won’t refund me… head of business refused to put that in writing to me, which I felt was slightly suspect…
So where do I go now? Everything is documented in emails, apart from anyone confirming the fault which happened via telephone. Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
In my mind, the fact a technician confirmed the fault, and the fact they had to send it to BMW means there is a fault… but if service are saying there isn’t a fault, how am I going to reject it…?
Appreciate thoughts, even if it’s “why did you drive it away on day 1”…
Bought a BMW from a large chain dealership 28 days ago. Test drove it and didn’t notice anything untoward. After completing paperwork turns out V5 was missing, so they drove me to local post office to fill out V62. During that trip over which included speed bumps noticed a knocking from the front, suspension related. Asked Salesman if he could hear it; confirmed noise.
Immediately booked in with their service department the following week, who replaced lower control arms, and top mounts. Vehicle returned to me after 3 days of work.
First speed bumps it became apparent noise is still there, and if anything now worse. Dealer rung again, but now can’t fit me in for over 3 weeks, past the 30 day rejection period. Bit of a struggle and it went in this week. They asked for technician to come on test drive to hear the noise. First speed bump, technician confirms knock and says it’ll be sorted. I also have a video of the car making the noise over speed bumps.
They replaced front shock - garage rang me to confirm noise still present. They then take it to BMW main dealer who had it for 2 days, can’t find the cause of the noise. Original dealer now saying that as BMW can’t find the cause, it isn’t a mechanical issue, and can I come and collect the car today…
Decided to exercise my right of rejection on the grounds the fault was present on day one, they’ve had the car for a total of 6 days had 2 opportunities and have failed to repair it. I’ve been passed around departments now, with sales saying it’s a service issue, service saying they can’t sort it, and head of business saying service manager who is on leave until next week will need to speak to me to confirm fault and rejection. ,
But head of business stated if there is no mechanical fault they won’t refund me… head of business refused to put that in writing to me, which I felt was slightly suspect…
So where do I go now? Everything is documented in emails, apart from anyone confirming the fault which happened via telephone. Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
In my mind, the fact a technician confirmed the fault, and the fact they had to send it to BMW means there is a fault… but if service are saying there isn’t a fault, how am I going to reject it…?
Appreciate thoughts, even if it’s “why did you drive it away on day 1”…
Shappers24 said:
Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
No.Citizens advice is a free service to a consumer.
You reported the fault within the 30 days, and it's the same fault.
Also, your 30 days extends by any time your car has been back at the garage for repairs.
Citizens advice will raise a case for you, and give you a reference number.
They'll point you to template letters on their website so you get the correct wording for your letters.
Follow their advice.
Also, if you've taken finance on the car, reject it to the finance company also.
Give them deadlines to respond.
Had this on my F30 3 Series. Numerous visits to rectify an occasional knock from the front suspension.
After the third visit I requested a technician came out with me to witness the knock.
Once we were on the car park, the technician asked me if he could drive, I said sure.
He had a series of sunken drain covers he drove across/down to get knocks and rattles to occur in cars, and sure enough driving down one of them perfectly illustrated the occasional undiagnosed knock I'd put up with for nearly a year ...
I got a phonecall from the dealer a couple of hours later, saying they'd found the problem and that the car needed a new steering rack, for which she quoted me £2,600 (and the lady on the end of the phone sounded especially pleased about the last bit ...)
I calmly replied that didn't concern me as the car had a BMW insured warranty.
She replied that it didn't, to which I replied, I'm not sure why I've been paying £58 a month to BMW warranty services for the last 18 months then ...
She responded that the car wasn't on their system. To which I replied, well I think you'll find that's an issue with your system.
In the end I had to provide her with my policy number because she couldn't find any trace of the policy.
When I provided her with the policy number, she found it on the system immediately and conceded that there would be no charge for the supply and fitting of a new rack.
After the third visit I requested a technician came out with me to witness the knock.
Once we were on the car park, the technician asked me if he could drive, I said sure.
He had a series of sunken drain covers he drove across/down to get knocks and rattles to occur in cars, and sure enough driving down one of them perfectly illustrated the occasional undiagnosed knock I'd put up with for nearly a year ...
I got a phonecall from the dealer a couple of hours later, saying they'd found the problem and that the car needed a new steering rack, for which she quoted me £2,600 (and the lady on the end of the phone sounded especially pleased about the last bit ...)
I calmly replied that didn't concern me as the car had a BMW insured warranty.
She replied that it didn't, to which I replied, I'm not sure why I've been paying £58 a month to BMW warranty services for the last 18 months then ...
She responded that the car wasn't on their system. To which I replied, well I think you'll find that's an issue with your system.
In the end I had to provide her with my policy number because she couldn't find any trace of the policy.
When I provided her with the policy number, she found it on the system immediately and conceded that there would be no charge for the supply and fitting of a new rack.
'i think we've sorted knock mate"
I've had this a couple of times when it had nowt to do with the suspension/steering although that's an obvious place to look.
1) exhaust mount
2) someone had left a tool behind the drivers door card, so only sometimes when you went over a bump/corner it would knock on the door skin. Nightmare to find that one..
hope you get it sorted. Dealer sounds like they're taking the pee.
I've had this a couple of times when it had nowt to do with the suspension/steering although that's an obvious place to look.
1) exhaust mount
2) someone had left a tool behind the drivers door card, so only sometimes when you went over a bump/corner it would knock on the door skin. Nightmare to find that one..
hope you get it sorted. Dealer sounds like they're taking the pee.
Shappers24 said:
Apologies but I did have a search through other topics and struggling to find an answer to this…
Bought a BMW from a large chain dealership 28 days ago. Test drove it and didn’t notice anything untoward. After completing paperwork turns out V5 was missing, so they drove me to local post office to fill out V62. During that trip over which included speed bumps noticed a knocking from the front, suspension related. Asked Salesman if he could hear it; confirmed noise.
Immediately booked in with their service department the following week, who replaced lower control arms, and top mounts. Vehicle returned to me after 3 days of work.
First speed bumps it became apparent noise is still there, and if anything now worse. Dealer rung again, but now can’t fit me in for over 3 weeks, past the 30 day rejection period. Bit of a struggle and it went in this week. They asked for technician to come on test drive to hear the noise. First speed bump, technician confirms knock and says it’ll be sorted. I also have a video of the car making the noise over speed bumps.
They replaced front shock - garage rang me to confirm noise still present. They then take it to BMW main dealer who had it for 2 days, can’t find the cause of the noise. Original dealer now saying that as BMW can’t find the cause, it isn’t a mechanical issue, and can I come and collect the car today…
Decided to exercise my right of rejection on the grounds the fault was present on day one, they’ve had the car for a total of 6 days had 2 opportunities and have failed to repair it. I’ve been passed around departments now, with sales saying it’s a service issue, service saying they can’t sort it, and head of business saying service manager who is on leave until next week will need to speak to me to confirm fault and rejection. ,
But head of business stated if there is no mechanical fault they won’t refund me… head of business refused to put that in writing to me, which I felt was slightly suspect…
So where do I go now? Everything is documented in emails, apart from anyone confirming the fault which happened via telephone. Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
In my mind, the fact a technician confirmed the fault, and the fact they had to send it to BMW means there is a fault… but if service are saying there isn’t a fault, how am I going to reject it…?
Appreciate thoughts, even if it’s “why did you drive it away on day 1”…
I always ask to see the V5C, simply to check the car is the one they are advertising, check the VIN on the V5C with the stamped VIN on the car. No V5C, no sale. I usually ask if the V5C is present before even going to view.Bought a BMW from a large chain dealership 28 days ago. Test drove it and didn’t notice anything untoward. After completing paperwork turns out V5 was missing, so they drove me to local post office to fill out V62. During that trip over which included speed bumps noticed a knocking from the front, suspension related. Asked Salesman if he could hear it; confirmed noise.
Immediately booked in with their service department the following week, who replaced lower control arms, and top mounts. Vehicle returned to me after 3 days of work.
First speed bumps it became apparent noise is still there, and if anything now worse. Dealer rung again, but now can’t fit me in for over 3 weeks, past the 30 day rejection period. Bit of a struggle and it went in this week. They asked for technician to come on test drive to hear the noise. First speed bump, technician confirms knock and says it’ll be sorted. I also have a video of the car making the noise over speed bumps.
They replaced front shock - garage rang me to confirm noise still present. They then take it to BMW main dealer who had it for 2 days, can’t find the cause of the noise. Original dealer now saying that as BMW can’t find the cause, it isn’t a mechanical issue, and can I come and collect the car today…
Decided to exercise my right of rejection on the grounds the fault was present on day one, they’ve had the car for a total of 6 days had 2 opportunities and have failed to repair it. I’ve been passed around departments now, with sales saying it’s a service issue, service saying they can’t sort it, and head of business saying service manager who is on leave until next week will need to speak to me to confirm fault and rejection. ,
But head of business stated if there is no mechanical fault they won’t refund me… head of business refused to put that in writing to me, which I felt was slightly suspect…
So where do I go now? Everything is documented in emails, apart from anyone confirming the fault which happened via telephone. Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
In my mind, the fact a technician confirmed the fault, and the fact they had to send it to BMW means there is a fault… but if service are saying there isn’t a fault, how am I going to reject it…?
Appreciate thoughts, even if it’s “why did you drive it away on day 1”…
I would have walked away in your circumstances.
However, since you went ahead you need to document the following:
Car and registration details
Date of purchase
Purchase Price
Reason for Rejection
Evidence to support the rejection such as the details of what occurred on each visit to the dealer, including what was said.
Copies of any emails regarding the issue
Then take the car, with any paperwork you have such as the new V5C, and all keys for the car back to the dealer and formally reject the car to the garage. Do not leave the premises until agreed, this includes how much the refund will be.
They are allowed to make a reasonable deduction for your use. Expect them to try to rip you off, have a calculated amount you are prepared to lose based on reality. My basis is price paid divided by the expected remaining life of the car (miles) to give a pence per mile charge, multiplied by the miles you have done. I usually make the total expected life of the car around 125k miles.
If the car has done 50k miles when I bought it and I paid £15k the sum is 125k-50k = 70k. Divide £15k by 75k = 20p/mile. If I have done 500 miles a fair deduction is £100 from the purchase price.
MustangGT said:
Shappers24 said:
Apologies but I did have a search through other topics and struggling to find an answer to this…
Bought a BMW from a large chain dealership 28 days ago. Test drove it and didn’t notice anything untoward. After completing paperwork turns out V5 was missing, so they drove me to local post office to fill out V62. During that trip over which included speed bumps noticed a knocking from the front, suspension related. Asked Salesman if he could hear it; confirmed noise.
Immediately booked in with their service department the following week, who replaced lower control arms, and top mounts. Vehicle returned to me after 3 days of work.
First speed bumps it became apparent noise is still there, and if anything now worse. Dealer rung again, but now can’t fit me in for over 3 weeks, past the 30 day rejection period. Bit of a struggle and it went in this week. They asked for technician to come on test drive to hear the noise. First speed bump, technician confirms knock and says it’ll be sorted. I also have a video of the car making the noise over speed bumps.
They replaced front shock - garage rang me to confirm noise still present. They then take it to BMW main dealer who had it for 2 days, can’t find the cause of the noise. Original dealer now saying that as BMW can’t find the cause, it isn’t a mechanical issue, and can I come and collect the car today…
Decided to exercise my right of rejection on the grounds the fault was present on day one, they’ve had the car for a total of 6 days had 2 opportunities and have failed to repair it. I’ve been passed around departments now, with sales saying it’s a service issue, service saying they can’t sort it, and head of business saying service manager who is on leave until next week will need to speak to me to confirm fault and rejection. ,
But head of business stated if there is no mechanical fault they won’t refund me… head of business refused to put that in writing to me, which I felt was slightly suspect…
So where do I go now? Everything is documented in emails, apart from anyone confirming the fault which happened via telephone. Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
In my mind, the fact a technician confirmed the fault, and the fact they had to send it to BMW means there is a fault… but if service are saying there isn’t a fault, how am I going to reject it…?
Appreciate thoughts, even if it’s “why did you drive it away on day 1”…
I always ask to see the V5C, simply to check the car is the one they are advertising, check the VIN on the V5C with the stamped VIN on the car. No V5C, no sale. I usually ask if the V5C is present before even going to view.Bought a BMW from a large chain dealership 28 days ago. Test drove it and didn’t notice anything untoward. After completing paperwork turns out V5 was missing, so they drove me to local post office to fill out V62. During that trip over which included speed bumps noticed a knocking from the front, suspension related. Asked Salesman if he could hear it; confirmed noise.
Immediately booked in with their service department the following week, who replaced lower control arms, and top mounts. Vehicle returned to me after 3 days of work.
First speed bumps it became apparent noise is still there, and if anything now worse. Dealer rung again, but now can’t fit me in for over 3 weeks, past the 30 day rejection period. Bit of a struggle and it went in this week. They asked for technician to come on test drive to hear the noise. First speed bump, technician confirms knock and says it’ll be sorted. I also have a video of the car making the noise over speed bumps.
They replaced front shock - garage rang me to confirm noise still present. They then take it to BMW main dealer who had it for 2 days, can’t find the cause of the noise. Original dealer now saying that as BMW can’t find the cause, it isn’t a mechanical issue, and can I come and collect the car today…
Decided to exercise my right of rejection on the grounds the fault was present on day one, they’ve had the car for a total of 6 days had 2 opportunities and have failed to repair it. I’ve been passed around departments now, with sales saying it’s a service issue, service saying they can’t sort it, and head of business saying service manager who is on leave until next week will need to speak to me to confirm fault and rejection. ,
But head of business stated if there is no mechanical fault they won’t refund me… head of business refused to put that in writing to me, which I felt was slightly suspect…
So where do I go now? Everything is documented in emails, apart from anyone confirming the fault which happened via telephone. Do I need to lawyer up? (Slightly tongue in cheek comment..!)
In my mind, the fact a technician confirmed the fault, and the fact they had to send it to BMW means there is a fault… but if service are saying there isn’t a fault, how am I going to reject it…?
Appreciate thoughts, even if it’s “why did you drive it away on day 1”…
I would have walked away in your circumstances.
However, since you went ahead you need to document the following:
Car and registration details
Date of purchase
Purchase Price
Reason for Rejection
Evidence to support the rejection such as the details of what occurred on each visit to the dealer, including what was said.
Copies of any emails regarding the issue
Then take the car, with any paperwork you have such as the new V5C, and all keys for the car back to the dealer and formally reject the car to the garage. Do not leave the premises until agreed, this includes how much the refund will be.
They are allowed to make a reasonable deduction for your use. Expect them to try to rip you off, have a calculated amount you are prepared to lose based on reality. My basis is price paid divided by the expected remaining life of the car (miles) to give a pence per mile charge, multiplied by the miles you have done. I usually make the total expected life of the car around 125k miles.
If the car has done 50k miles when I bought it and I paid £15k the sum is 125k-50k = 70k. Divide £15k by 75k = 20p/mile. If I have done 500 miles a fair deduction is £100 from the purchase price.
I’ve laid everything out in an email, they’ve still got the car on site. I’ll speak to citizens advice and see if they recommend going and sitting in dealership till it gets resolved. On the phone they are adamant that only the service manager can sort the refund and he’s away until Monday. Whilst it’s relatively local (40 min drive) I don’t want a wasted trip…
stevemcs said:
If it knocks then it has to be mechanical ..... its not the bottom of the steering coloumn is it ?
It could be, it’s something front drivers side certainly. My Z4 made the same noise - and swapping lower control arms sorted it. Garage reckon they’ve done that already and not solved it.
It feels like they think it’s suspension related, but as they’ve replaced most of that it can’t be a problem, and therefore no fault.
Just had a follow up email saying “if” there is a fault and “if” it falls with consumer rights then “maybe” a refund will be provided. I get they don’t want to commit to refunding, but under consumer rights the fault has been established, they’ve failed to fix it, refund now due…
I suspect it won’t be as easy as that.
I’m not sure if BMW have test driven it or not. Original dealer and tech have heard it and confirmed the fault… it blows my mind that as BMW cant resolve it, the conclusion is there is no fault. Like they are ignoring their own findings and what they’ve heard. It’s not like it’s a quiet subtle noise either…
It actually blows my mind, but at least I have something in writing.
It actually blows my mind, but at least I have something in writing.
Given that its been heard by a salesman; and its been into their workshop for some replacement parts, that should pretty much be a slam-dunk that the problem existed back then.
I've seen it over and over where people buy a car from a main dealer, or a large dealer chain, but get ineffective service like this on a) the condition of the car in general and b) any comebacks.
You need to press them harder to start the refund process, don't take the "oh he's off until Monday" as an excuse, there must be someone there who can take the car off you, all you need to do at this stage is safely deliver it there. In law they have 14 days to pay up.
I've seen it over and over where people buy a car from a main dealer, or a large dealer chain, but get ineffective service like this on a) the condition of the car in general and b) any comebacks.
You need to press them harder to start the refund process, don't take the "oh he's off until Monday" as an excuse, there must be someone there who can take the car off you, all you need to do at this stage is safely deliver it there. In law they have 14 days to pay up.
Dumb question, what has the service manager got to do with sorting a refund for rejecting a vehicle?
When I rejected a vehicle they just purchased it back as a second hand vehicle by the person who sold it to me, cash back in the bank a couple of days later.
Sound like they are pulling your chain.
When I rejected a vehicle they just purchased it back as a second hand vehicle by the person who sold it to me, cash back in the bank a couple of days later.
Sound like they are pulling your chain.
https://youtube.com/shorts/0zS3m5JABQg?si=UvRBC4Ud...
Not sure if that link works or not (don’t regularly use YouTube!) but that’s the fault which apparently isn’t a fault.
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Not sure if that link works or not (don’t regularly use YouTube!) but that’s the fault which apparently isn’t a fault.
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Trevor555 said:
Shappers24 said:
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Ignore that and get your rejection letter/email in today.Shappers24 said:
https://youtube.com/shorts/0zS3m5JABQg?si=UvRBC4Ud...
Not sure if that link works or not (don’t regularly use YouTube!) but that’s the fault which apparently isn’t a fault.
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
I am not by any means a mechanic BUT that does not sound right. How on earth would they say there is no fault?Not sure if that link works or not (don’t regularly use YouTube!) but that’s the fault which apparently isn’t a fault.
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Shappers24 said:
Trevor555 said:
Shappers24 said:
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Ignore that and get your rejection letter/email in today.Add to your 30 days any time that the car has been back at the dealership, or at another garage with the supplying dealers autherisation, for repair to that initial fault.
Is the dealer FCA regulated?
If so, give them a deadline to process your refund, otherwise you'll put a complaint into the FCA.
Shappers24 said:
https://youtube.com/shorts/0zS3m5JABQg?si=UvRBC4Ud...
Not sure if that link works or not (don’t regularly use YouTube!) but that’s the fault which apparently isn’t a fault.
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Is that yours ? something is definatly wrong with that - although that gives the impression its inside the car.Not sure if that link works or not (don’t regularly use YouTube!) but that’s the fault which apparently isn’t a fault.
Apparently service manager deals with buybacks. I think they’re waiting for him to confirm there is a fault before authorising.
Ignoring the rejection bit (which i see no reason why they shouldn't) can you get the car on MOT shacker plates and check for noise ? If you drive it over bumps could someone hear it outside if they stood at the side of the road ?
But that cleary sounds wrong
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