How much per month?
Discussion
In today's world it just feels like shopping around for cars according to how much you want to pay per month is always the norm.
Whether it's a lease, PCP, a car loan or something else - it generally comes back to this.
Back in the glory days of leasing really enjoyed leasing a mildly sporty Fiesta and having my biggest problem be if I could get the front 2 tyres above the legal limit after the 2 years. £155 or so monthly even factoring the months that went down felt like a steal.
Moving on and I find myself rolling around in a slightly-above-shed value Civic. If I apply my lease brain to this (Tax, MOT, Maintenance & depreciation - just not fuel) probably it's somewhere under £100. You have a lot more general stress to keep it maintained and avoid big bills but that's obviously offset by having something old, simple and fairly reliable.
Looking at newer cars for the other half, even something a couple of years old will bomb through at least double this budget in depreciation alone. There's obviously no way around it if you want to own a newer car with a higher starting value than my crappy Civic. Bigger cars obviously don't help matters, but age & kids mean you need to bend a certain amount.
Thing is, I think I have a little mental block around all this. When you start considering these sums of money, they just seem pretty chunky. Maybe I just have a poverty mindset or something.
I visualise the difference between £200 & £400 costs as a pretty nice annual holiday or a great budget to do several weekends away.
Does anyone else struggle with this? Do you think about it in terms of % of your budget after the more important stuff is paid? What man maths do you apply?
Whether it's a lease, PCP, a car loan or something else - it generally comes back to this.
Back in the glory days of leasing really enjoyed leasing a mildly sporty Fiesta and having my biggest problem be if I could get the front 2 tyres above the legal limit after the 2 years. £155 or so monthly even factoring the months that went down felt like a steal.
Moving on and I find myself rolling around in a slightly-above-shed value Civic. If I apply my lease brain to this (Tax, MOT, Maintenance & depreciation - just not fuel) probably it's somewhere under £100. You have a lot more general stress to keep it maintained and avoid big bills but that's obviously offset by having something old, simple and fairly reliable.
Looking at newer cars for the other half, even something a couple of years old will bomb through at least double this budget in depreciation alone. There's obviously no way around it if you want to own a newer car with a higher starting value than my crappy Civic. Bigger cars obviously don't help matters, but age & kids mean you need to bend a certain amount.
Thing is, I think I have a little mental block around all this. When you start considering these sums of money, they just seem pretty chunky. Maybe I just have a poverty mindset or something.
I visualise the difference between £200 & £400 costs as a pretty nice annual holiday or a great budget to do several weekends away.
Does anyone else struggle with this? Do you think about it in terms of % of your budget after the more important stuff is paid? What man maths do you apply?
I think i understand where you're coming from. I finally came to terms with it as simply being another monthly cost that you need to include in your budget and affordability metrics.
I pay around £400 a month on a PCP deal for my 2021 A4 avant. But you can take that cost and transfer it to anything. THis is where i justify this to myself, somehow.
I'm a HUGE believer in value for money; and i know someone is currently rushing to their keyboard to say a run of the mill A4 estate is hardly worth the premium and you might be right but when i was buying the car i took an insane amount of time to make sure i could get as much in that car for the budget. To that end i arrived at a fairly high spec car with all of things i needed to enjoy being IN the car. If it's a nice car to look at then also a bonus but i think this is where i might differ; i would sacrifice the look of a car, within reason, and deploy the mindset of maximising what i get IN the car.
So, in a roundabout way i agree with you, 400 notes a month is a chunk of cash and when you factor in fuel and maintenance and spread that over 12 months you are knocking on the door of a grand a month just to get you around. When i break it down like that i really question why i do pay monthly for a car.
All cars in my head then need to have:
1. LED Lights
2. A good sound system (currently the B&O set up in my car is excellent, to me)
3. Car Play
4. Nice combination of materials (i don't like all leather, so the car is an alcantara mix)
I am hyper aware though, that i am now locked in. THe car is NEVER going to be worth the baloon payment at the end of the lease so of course you simply chop it in when you are far enough in not to carry a massive amount of negative equity forward. And i find something else that meers the above or better.
My thinking mostly is that everything i *need* in a car these days is fast becoming what is considered "standard", or to put it how someone recently stated it "poverty" spec...
What i should do, is exit the lease as soon as i can and get into something that's still half way decent for half the money but you alluded to your personal requirements being a factor, it's the same for me and everyone..
I find myself having to tow horseboxes these days so already i'm at a certain price point just to have the juice to do that reliably, repeatedly and when it inevitably needs parts sooner than expected due to the extra load i can make use of a service plan i negotiate.
I pay around £400 a month on a PCP deal for my 2021 A4 avant. But you can take that cost and transfer it to anything. THis is where i justify this to myself, somehow.
I'm a HUGE believer in value for money; and i know someone is currently rushing to their keyboard to say a run of the mill A4 estate is hardly worth the premium and you might be right but when i was buying the car i took an insane amount of time to make sure i could get as much in that car for the budget. To that end i arrived at a fairly high spec car with all of things i needed to enjoy being IN the car. If it's a nice car to look at then also a bonus but i think this is where i might differ; i would sacrifice the look of a car, within reason, and deploy the mindset of maximising what i get IN the car.
So, in a roundabout way i agree with you, 400 notes a month is a chunk of cash and when you factor in fuel and maintenance and spread that over 12 months you are knocking on the door of a grand a month just to get you around. When i break it down like that i really question why i do pay monthly for a car.
All cars in my head then need to have:
1. LED Lights
2. A good sound system (currently the B&O set up in my car is excellent, to me)
3. Car Play
4. Nice combination of materials (i don't like all leather, so the car is an alcantara mix)
I am hyper aware though, that i am now locked in. THe car is NEVER going to be worth the baloon payment at the end of the lease so of course you simply chop it in when you are far enough in not to carry a massive amount of negative equity forward. And i find something else that meers the above or better.
My thinking mostly is that everything i *need* in a car these days is fast becoming what is considered "standard", or to put it how someone recently stated it "poverty" spec...
What i should do, is exit the lease as soon as i can and get into something that's still half way decent for half the money but you alluded to your personal requirements being a factor, it's the same for me and everyone..
I find myself having to tow horseboxes these days so already i'm at a certain price point just to have the juice to do that reliably, repeatedly and when it inevitably needs parts sooner than expected due to the extra load i can make use of a service plan i negotiate.
When I hear the sort of sums people spend per month on PCP/leasing etc I am often left quite shocked.
I don't want to turn it into some anti-PCP/lease rant, and appreciate cars cost money whether "up front" via depreciation or the other route of PCP/lease. However, the latter is known at the outset, which is where some people see it as beneficial to know the costs at the start.
Nonetheless, people paying quite large monthly sums for fairly unremarkable cars just amazes me. If it was something exotic I can perhaps grasp the concept more, but for a mundane hatch or saloon I can't see why you wouldn't just buy one a few years old in a world where cars are pretty reliable for 10 or so + years old.
I don't want to turn it into some anti-PCP/lease rant, and appreciate cars cost money whether "up front" via depreciation or the other route of PCP/lease. However, the latter is known at the outset, which is where some people see it as beneficial to know the costs at the start.
Nonetheless, people paying quite large monthly sums for fairly unremarkable cars just amazes me. If it was something exotic I can perhaps grasp the concept more, but for a mundane hatch or saloon I can't see why you wouldn't just buy one a few years old in a world where cars are pretty reliable for 10 or so + years old.
I am thinking of going down the lease route for the general runaround car.
Currently have a 2009 Nissan Note. Say £250 in tax, £40 a week fuel, £50 MOT, £500 servicing and repairs and it isn't that cheap compared to a new EV.
May save a grand or so a year but is it really worth it? Extra safety and not worrying about breaking down is what the new car gives.
For a white goods car, a new lease makes sense.
And I would rather have a decent car than waste money on holidays and weekends away...
Currently have a 2009 Nissan Note. Say £250 in tax, £40 a week fuel, £50 MOT, £500 servicing and repairs and it isn't that cheap compared to a new EV.
May save a grand or so a year but is it really worth it? Extra safety and not worrying about breaking down is what the new car gives.
For a white goods car, a new lease makes sense.
And I would rather have a decent car than waste money on holidays and weekends away...
£383pm for 12k miles per year on a 4 year PCP deal for an MG4 XPower, brand new. £20-25 per month on electric for 1k miles.
7 year manufacturer warranty. 8 year battery warranty.
More practical than my previous Fiesta, for similar overall outlay per month, and absolutely rapid performance.
I - and presumably very few others - will truly be happy with paying for cars, but they're a necessary cost if you need the ability to move about at your discretion and at all times of day and night.
7 year manufacturer warranty. 8 year battery warranty.
More practical than my previous Fiesta, for similar overall outlay per month, and absolutely rapid performance.
I - and presumably very few others - will truly be happy with paying for cars, but they're a necessary cost if you need the ability to move about at your discretion and at all times of day and night.
My budget always used to be whatever I could get for £200 pm.
Used to get me into some lovely cars. Golf GTI, Focus ST, Clio Cup, Astra 200.
Definitely don't want to be paying the prices to lease something nice now.
So I took a gamble and went for just above shed money for something old but still nice..
Paid sub £4k for a 20 yr old clk320.
Had it 1 year and it's cost me a battery and a light bulb so far.
Will know if this gamble has paid off later this week as it's MOT time..
Hopefully it's OK, and I'll keep it long term as i really like it.
Man maths for me was that if it fails big time, it's basically the same as having leased something for the last year and getting rid. I'll be better off if I end up keeping it.So.....
Used to get me into some lovely cars. Golf GTI, Focus ST, Clio Cup, Astra 200.
Definitely don't want to be paying the prices to lease something nice now.
So I took a gamble and went for just above shed money for something old but still nice..
Paid sub £4k for a 20 yr old clk320.
Had it 1 year and it's cost me a battery and a light bulb so far.
Will know if this gamble has paid off later this week as it's MOT time..
Hopefully it's OK, and I'll keep it long term as i really like it.
Man maths for me was that if it fails big time, it's basically the same as having leased something for the last year and getting rid. I'll be better off if I end up keeping it.So.....
Shnozz said:
When I hear the sort of sums people spend per month on PCP/leasing etc I am often left quite shocked.
I don't want to turn it into some anti-PCP/lease rant, and appreciate cars cost money whether "up front" via depreciation or the other route of PCP/lease. However, the latter is known at the outset, which is where some people see it as beneficial to know the costs at the start.
Nonetheless, people paying quite large monthly sums for fairly unremarkable cars just amazes me. If it was something exotic I can perhaps grasp the concept more, but for a mundane hatch or saloon I can't see why you wouldn't just buy one a few years old in a world where cars are pretty reliable for 10 or so + years old.
How I look at it too. I don't want to turn it into some anti-PCP/lease rant, and appreciate cars cost money whether "up front" via depreciation or the other route of PCP/lease. However, the latter is known at the outset, which is where some people see it as beneficial to know the costs at the start.
Nonetheless, people paying quite large monthly sums for fairly unremarkable cars just amazes me. If it was something exotic I can perhaps grasp the concept more, but for a mundane hatch or saloon I can't see why you wouldn't just buy one a few years old in a world where cars are pretty reliable for 10 or so + years old.
Some of these examples do make perfect sense, even if not for me. No desire for an electric car but certainly makes sense leasing one at the MG example, particularly if run through a business. The petrol saving + tax saving as well as likely savage depreciation if buying would mean it makes financial sense.
Likewise, the £200 PCM examples also make sense as its a trivial amount. The Golf Rs that were £200 another prime example.
£400 PCM for a 4 year old A4 is where I start scratching my head to see an attraction.
There was a clip I saw on instragram this morning where someone was calling a car dealer saying they were paying £1500 PCM for one of those Maserati SUVs that you can buy a decent example for £30k. Seemed mental but then I am not wealthy.
Likewise, the £200 PCM examples also make sense as its a trivial amount. The Golf Rs that were £200 another prime example.
£400 PCM for a 4 year old A4 is where I start scratching my head to see an attraction.
There was a clip I saw on instragram this morning where someone was calling a car dealer saying they were paying £1500 PCM for one of those Maserati SUVs that you can buy a decent example for £30k. Seemed mental but then I am not wealthy.
Shnozz said:
Some of these examples do make perfect sense, even if not for me. No desire for an electric car but certainly makes sense leasing one at the MG example, particularly if run through a business. The petrol saving + tax saving as well as likely savage depreciation if buying would mean it makes financial sense.
Likewise, the £200 PCM examples also make sense as its a trivial amount. The Golf Rs that were £200 another prime example.
£400 PCM for a 4 year old A4 is where I start scratching my head to see an attraction.
There was a clip I saw on instragram this morning where someone was calling a car dealer saying they were paying £1500 PCM for one of those Maserati SUVs that you can buy a decent example for £30k. Seemed mental but then I am not wealthy.
Good points - I remember those £200pm lease deals for a Golf R - can't see those value for money/performance deals any time soon, or ever again.Likewise, the £200 PCM examples also make sense as its a trivial amount. The Golf Rs that were £200 another prime example.
£400 PCM for a 4 year old A4 is where I start scratching my head to see an attraction.
There was a clip I saw on instragram this morning where someone was calling a car dealer saying they were paying £1500 PCM for one of those Maserati SUVs that you can buy a decent example for £30k. Seemed mental but then I am not wealthy.
For my MG, I got a great deal as a family member is the head salesman at an MG dealership. £100 deposit; £383 per month for 12k miles per year. £20 per month in electric. £15pm service cost. And £0 for VED for 12 months, then it rises to £190-5. Compared to my Fiesta, I was paying £200pm personal loan. Anywhere from £160-240pm in fuel; approximately £30pm in servicing - not including any repairs needed.
Overall, similar costs but for a new car under warranty with all the performance you can realistically use on the public road, albeit it doesn't handle anywhere near as well as the Fiesta did. I'm happy with the purchase and I especially enjoy the AWD traction, and rhe responsiveness of an EV.
I think I could have done a lot worse for more money; can anyone think of better value for money/performance?
My current car a BMW M4 F82 I pay £500 a month but it's a personal loan I took out through my bank so I will in theory own it in the next 3 years or at the least have equity to move on to the next car.
For me though yes it's a fair chunk of money every month and there's an argument I could simply use the R53 Mini I have in my garage as a daily and use the costs of the M4 on other things be it additional mortgage payments or holidays or whatever else but my M4 gives me a lot of pleasure I love the car and owning it and driving it and simply seeing it parked on my drive.
I get that others have different priorities and aren't fussed about what car they drive as long as it gets them where they need to be and that's fine too if people want to prioritise more holidays, it would be boring if everyone was the same.
For me though yes it's a fair chunk of money every month and there's an argument I could simply use the R53 Mini I have in my garage as a daily and use the costs of the M4 on other things be it additional mortgage payments or holidays or whatever else but my M4 gives me a lot of pleasure I love the car and owning it and driving it and simply seeing it parked on my drive.
I get that others have different priorities and aren't fussed about what car they drive as long as it gets them where they need to be and that's fine too if people want to prioritise more holidays, it would be boring if everyone was the same.
As expensive as modern cars are, there are far more of them on the roads than you would see in the 1970s and 80s. So they must be more affordable today than they were back then. Where I grew up in the 70s/80s everyone was driving an Escort, Cortina or Cavalier. Maybe a Capri or Opel Manta if they were pushing the boat out. I bet that same average housing estate is now full of newish Audis, BMWs, Mercs etc. There will be cheaper cars too, but a LOT more higher end cars than ever seen back then.
I am 60, I remember my dad telling me that when he had his first couple of houses, it was common place that the car on the driveway, cost more than the house. 1950 I guess.
Car specific tailored finance itself is relatively recent. A bank loan for a car or major purchase less so.
I have never leased a car. I have had a bank loan I used to buy a car.
I would not buy a car from a Bank or borrow money from a car trader.
Car specific tailored finance itself is relatively recent. A bank loan for a car or major purchase less so.
I have never leased a car. I have had a bank loan I used to buy a car.
I would not buy a car from a Bank or borrow money from a car trader.
uktrailmonster said:
As expensive as modern cars are, there are far more of them on the roads than you would see in the 1970s and 80s. So they must be more affordable today than they were back then. Where I grew up in the 70s/80s everyone was driving an Escort, Cortina or Cavalier. Maybe a Capri or Opel Manta if they were pushing the boat out. I bet that same average housing estate is now full of newish Audis, BMWs, Mercs etc. There will be cheaper cars too, but a LOT more higher end cars than ever seen back then.
Back in the 70's cars were expensive, as were most things compared to a few years ago. Cars now seem to be getting expensive again. in the 70's most families would have one car, and unless you were well off it would be an older car. Cars over 10 years old were rare, due to rust. Borrowing money was difficult, you had to visit the bank manager and get him to agree a loan. I remember doing this for loan back in 1982. Now its accepted that you don't save for anything, you just tick some boxes and its yours. Other stuff was far more expensive as well. a reasonable telly will cost you the same now as it did in 1980. but now you will taken home 5 times as much.
uktrailmonster said:
As expensive as modern cars are, there are far more of them on the roads than you would see in the 1970s and 80s. So they must be more affordable today than they were back then.
Surely this is one of the OP’s points. Yes high end cars are more affordable today, but only because of the prevalence of a range of finance solutions. When PCP was introduced it was one the biggest marketing tricks / sales innovations (delete according to your mindset) in the sale of goods to consumers. Shnozz said:
When I hear the sort of sums people spend per month on PCP/leasing etc I am often left quite shocked.
I don't want to turn it into some anti-PCP/lease rant, and appreciate cars cost money whether "up front" via depreciation or the other route of PCP/lease. However, the latter is known at the outset, which is where some people see it as beneficial to know the costs at the start.
Nonetheless, people paying quite large monthly sums for fairly unremarkable cars just amazes me. If it was something exotic I can perhaps grasp the concept more, but for a mundane hatch or saloon I can't see why you wouldn't just buy one a few years old in a world where cars are pretty reliable for 10 or so + years old.
+1. Have had a few PCP's over the last 10 years or so and am completely done with them. Have realised it's just not worth it and hence bought my current car outright with no finance. 8 years old/40k miles and it's lovely and no need to have gone for yet another PCP option. Now I have gone down this road, with a lot of new cars I see, I think why has that person gone into that car for quite a lot of money every month. Times change I guess but for me, no more PCP's. I don't want to turn it into some anti-PCP/lease rant, and appreciate cars cost money whether "up front" via depreciation or the other route of PCP/lease. However, the latter is known at the outset, which is where some people see it as beneficial to know the costs at the start.
Nonetheless, people paying quite large monthly sums for fairly unremarkable cars just amazes me. If it was something exotic I can perhaps grasp the concept more, but for a mundane hatch or saloon I can't see why you wouldn't just buy one a few years old in a world where cars are pretty reliable for 10 or so + years old.
BlueJ said:
uktrailmonster said:
As expensive as modern cars are, there are far more of them on the roads than you would see in the 1970s and 80s. So they must be more affordable today than they were back then.
Surely this is one of the OP’s points. Yes high end cars are more affordable today, but only because of the prevalence of a range of finance solutions. When PCP was introduced it was one the biggest marketing tricks / sales innovations (delete according to your mindset) in the sale of goods to consumers. I’ve ended up despising the two cars I’ve had on lease/PCP.
First was an S5. Never felt like mine and hated putting miles on it.
Currently got an ID.7 which is a heap of crap and has had endless issues since I bought it - at a stalemate with VW and the leasing company.
I’m fortunate enough to have another car which I will always ensure I can buy with cash.
First was an S5. Never felt like mine and hated putting miles on it.
Currently got an ID.7 which is a heap of crap and has had endless issues since I bought it - at a stalemate with VW and the leasing company.
I’m fortunate enough to have another car which I will always ensure I can buy with cash.
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