Cheap 4wd Rav4 or Vitara vs Car in UK winters
Discussion
Having driven FWD, RWD, Part Time 4WD and Full Time 4WD vehicles, both with summer tyres, 'all season' and winter tyres....the 4WD (both part and full time) vehicles always offer better confidence as a driver in snowy or slippery conditions, However, in my opinion, that's only really notable when towing, extreme conditions, unmade roads and steeper gradients - Physics basically.
Regarding Scenario a) - A focus with good quality All Season or better still, Winter tyres will be more than capable in most of these situations. With thick/sticky mud however, you might struggle. Once Winter tyres (even M&S rated) are 'packed' with mud, you on a hiding to nothing in a FWD vehicle with open diff.
Regarding Scenario b) - You'll want the benefit of 4 driven wheels, in conjunction with All Seasons. (Preferably full winters if you live in a particularly hilly area...the downside being they will need swapping out when milder weather returns).
In summary - it depends on the ratio of expected a) to b) usage. If in doubt, 4WD will be a safer bet.
Regarding Scenario a) - A focus with good quality All Season or better still, Winter tyres will be more than capable in most of these situations. With thick/sticky mud however, you might struggle. Once Winter tyres (even M&S rated) are 'packed' with mud, you on a hiding to nothing in a FWD vehicle with open diff.
Regarding Scenario b) - You'll want the benefit of 4 driven wheels, in conjunction with All Seasons. (Preferably full winters if you live in a particularly hilly area...the downside being they will need swapping out when milder weather returns).
In summary - it depends on the ratio of expected a) to b) usage. If in doubt, 4WD will be a safer bet.
Edited by MattyD803 on Wednesday 1st October 12:12
Harry21uk said:
a - normal UK winter
No such thing.If you live in Southampton your winters are most definitely not the same as Aviemore.
I would say the same for the roads you use - if you are in London your roads are so totally different to West Cumbria.
So where do you live, and what is your use case for mud / snow / ice and the journey's you 'have' to make in such inclement conditions.
Edit: FWIW, I live in Perthshire and travel all over Scotland rurally year round, prior to this I lived rurally and my commute was 10 miles of singletrack road up to a height of 500metres and my work involved needing to support care of school children so there was a 'have' to. I have only every used hatchbacks and estate cars with all season tyres on. The limiting factor is the snow deeper than the bottom of your front bumper - and frankly do you want to be out in such conditions?
I would also add vehicle weight is more important than many consider - while a nice 2.5t Landrover will get going in snow and ice due to 4wd, my old 850kg Yaris would stop far quicker and steer better when it was properly nasty weather due to simple physics.
Edited by POIDH on Wednesday 1st October 12:24
Thanks for that
I spend quite a bit of time in Derbyshire and you are correct it's plain stupid going out in thick snow unless you have to
..and interestingly enough I had a landrover discovery many years ago and going very slow around an icy bend and the sheer weight of the discovery meant once I hit black ice I literally could not do anything 😁
I'm terms of cars then, is a hatchback better than an estate due to lack of weight in the back of an estate ?
..and I presume the best compromise is cheap 4wd car ?
Any suggestions for that then 😁
I spend quite a bit of time in Derbyshire and you are correct it's plain stupid going out in thick snow unless you have to
..and interestingly enough I had a landrover discovery many years ago and going very slow around an icy bend and the sheer weight of the discovery meant once I hit black ice I literally could not do anything 😁
I'm terms of cars then, is a hatchback better than an estate due to lack of weight in the back of an estate ?
..and I presume the best compromise is cheap 4wd car ?
Any suggestions for that then 😁
I think your budget will need to be stretched somewhat but I'd be looking for a normal Fiat Panda 4x4. They are virtually unstoppable in any situation you're likely to encounter and the 0.9 TwinAir weighs less than a tonne.
I have a Cross version on all season tyres and I'm still pretty amazed at what it's capable of.
I have a Cross version on all season tyres and I'm still pretty amazed at what it's capable of.
Jag_NE said:
i think you will get more trouble from the car vs the weather in the 2k zone....just buy the cleanest and most genuine car for your budget and put all season tyres on.
^This^ a decent set of all season tyres (Say Michelin Cross Climates 2) would be better than a "cheap" a.n.other car.The cheapest car on the the best winter tyres always wins. A set of Blizzaks will get you anywhere you need to go a 4x4 just means your bravery levels are increased.
For FWD VAG have excellent traction systems, Subaru probably tops the 4wd list imho, though RWD & winters is by far the most fun, just make sure it has a poorly proper handbrake!
For FWD VAG have excellent traction systems, Subaru probably tops the 4wd list imho, though RWD & winters is by far the most fun, just make sure it has a poorly proper handbrake!
Jag_NE said:
i think you will get more trouble from the car vs the weather in the 2k zone....just buy the cleanest and most genuine car for your budget and put all season tyres on.
Depends on the car... I spent 2 grand on a 2007 Volvo XC70 just over 3 years ago and I've done almost 30 thousand miles in it.In that time it's needed a couple of wheel bearings (DIYed) for general maintenance and a brake hose to get through it's MOTs.
Set of Cross Climate 2s and it's never even come close to letting me down: I spend a lot of time in the Peak District hiking and I've come across some pretty 'interesting' winter conditions. Always satisfying when you cruise past a struggling brand new Range Rover on summer tyres in a shed of an old Volvo!
Love the old bus and I've no desire to change it for anything newer, faster or 'better'.
As no-one else has said it, I will. A light car on narrow tyres will run rings around something heavier of the same configuration. i.e. both Front WD, or both RWD, or both AWD.
Once I had just managed to negotiate a snowy uphill bend in a car park in my Orion on 185/60 tyres. Parked, and as I was walking out I saw another driver who had stopped at the lowest point and couldn't move their car. I offered to try to extricate their car. although I wasn't hopeful. Got in, put it in second, let in the clutch and moved off as though the road was dry. It was a Megane, or similar, on 165 wide tyres...
So yes it was just at the end of the last ice age.
Once I had just managed to negotiate a snowy uphill bend in a car park in my Orion on 185/60 tyres. Parked, and as I was walking out I saw another driver who had stopped at the lowest point and couldn't move their car. I offered to try to extricate their car. although I wasn't hopeful. Got in, put it in second, let in the clutch and moved off as though the road was dry. It was a Megane, or similar, on 165 wide tyres...
So yes it was just at the end of the last ice age.
great answers.. but I think the consensus is unless I'm driving in canada in winter a good set of winter tyres on a cheap estate car should be fine
I've actually seen a 2004 PD100 passat estate which has only don 130k mile with fsh and 12 months mot.. £1200 !
I guess I dare not ask the question... whats the best tyre lol
My brother had a set of I think Landsail all weather tyres and said they seemed find ( although he barely drove at all ...)
I presume all weather can be driven all year round and are good in winter but winter tyres are a step up and perform much better in ice/snow ?
but dont winter tyres have an operating temperature outside of which they are not good ?
cheers
I've actually seen a 2004 PD100 passat estate which has only don 130k mile with fsh and 12 months mot.. £1200 !
I guess I dare not ask the question... whats the best tyre lol
My brother had a set of I think Landsail all weather tyres and said they seemed find ( although he barely drove at all ...)
I presume all weather can be driven all year round and are good in winter but winter tyres are a step up and perform much better in ice/snow ?
but dont winter tyres have an operating temperature outside of which they are not good ?
cheers
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