Best gear change and ergonomics sub-£10k
Discussion
Having spent the last couple of days in a rental Kia Picanto(!), I have been reminded how much I miss driving a manual car. I can make a case for a third car up to about £10k. Basically, I’m wondering what car offers the best gear change and general ergonomics, whilst being able to deal with British roads and having the “zip” to overtake when required. My other two cars cover practicality, speed and performance between them. I’ve had hot hatches in the past, and would rule out something like a RS Clio 182 as I really didn’t rate the high seat position and pedals, even though it was great fun to drive in general. Similarly, I don’t rate the general ergonomics of something like a Caterham and I want to be able to drive this in all seasons. I don’t mind having an engine that needs revving out, as long as there is a bit of power in there when required (though I’m thinking this is going to be more about carrying momentum than outright speed). Could be hot hatch, sports car, rally vibes, whatever. Any ideas welcome!
I'd agree with the above with regards a MINI of some description - Facelift first gen (late 2004 onwards) up to however new the budget will go.
Or a 987 2.7 manual Boxster - a Quick Look on auto trader and there seem to be plenty to choose from at the budget - especially if you're happy to get your hands dirty for simple maintenance stuff.
Or a 987 2.7 manual Boxster - a Quick Look on auto trader and there seem to be plenty to choose from at the budget - especially if you're happy to get your hands dirty for simple maintenance stuff.
northandsouth said:
Thanks for the ideas. A Mini Cooper S could be a fun idea out of the above. I ve done the 987 Boxster. Megane appeals too actually, assuming the controls are better set up than the old 182 Clio.
Ergonomics are better in the Megane than Clio, but still nothing like a BMW or Mini. Gearshift isn't amazing either. Great cars though. Honda Civic Type R EP3
Ok, so its not a DC5.
If you get the Premier Edition you sit low in fabulous Recaro buckets which solve the more perched driving position of the standard car.
Gearshift is located directly in your eye line and falls straight to hand. An excellent shift and a fantastic gearknob.
Steering wheel is small and round , thin enough to hold well and thick enough to feel sporty.
The gear change is exceptional, very mechanical.
The steering is early PAS so not a highlight unless you get a JDM car which has a hydraulic rack, and an LSD. Fantastic.
If you’re not a fan of the Type R then I would echo Megane 265 Cup, MX5 and also I’d throw in the Porsche 987 Cayman into the mix.
Ok, so its not a DC5.
If you get the Premier Edition you sit low in fabulous Recaro buckets which solve the more perched driving position of the standard car.
Gearshift is located directly in your eye line and falls straight to hand. An excellent shift and a fantastic gearknob.
Steering wheel is small and round , thin enough to hold well and thick enough to feel sporty.
The gear change is exceptional, very mechanical.
The steering is early PAS so not a highlight unless you get a JDM car which has a hydraulic rack, and an LSD. Fantastic.
If you’re not a fan of the Type R then I would echo Megane 265 Cup, MX5 and also I’d throw in the Porsche 987 Cayman into the mix.
I went through this recently and this was coming from a manual BMW!
Mx5 is a strong contender. GT86/BRZ is also on par and anything with a Honda badge usually has a sweet gearchange. That budget would get you a great FN2. If you don’t mind economy over power the CRZ has a nicer seating position with a great gearchange.
Someone else mentioned a Fiat Panda, can certainly vouch for that. I had a great time rowing through gears in one!
Mx5 is a strong contender. GT86/BRZ is also on par and anything with a Honda badge usually has a sweet gearchange. That budget would get you a great FN2. If you don’t mind economy over power the CRZ has a nicer seating position with a great gearchange.
Someone else mentioned a Fiat Panda, can certainly vouch for that. I had a great time rowing through gears in one!
Edited by AdamG_BRZ on Monday 1st December 22:43
Any MX5 (including Abarth 124). It's worth getting a 6 speed MX5 if you intend to drive it on a motorway ever.
Any petrol Subaru (and by extension, GT86)
Fiat Panda 100HP (and perhaps the 4x4 twinair, I bet that thing needs an awful lot of stiring)
Forget anything VW group, the manual gearbox equivelant of wearing an entire Durex factory.
Forget Porsches - the ratios are far too long, the top of 2nd gear will get you a ticket on any B-road, and 3rd will get you a ban. An old 986 Boxster might be okay if you put tiny wheels on it, but the pedal is still floor mounted, which I find makes heel and toe impossible. By extension, this rules out BMWs too, including Minis.
If I were to guess, I'd bet that all the Civic Type Rs are great, as are the Suzuki Swift Sports and mk3 Toyota MR2s.
If it's a third car, I couldn't exclude a Busso V6 Alfa Romeo, not at least without trying one.
Any petrol Subaru (and by extension, GT86)
Fiat Panda 100HP (and perhaps the 4x4 twinair, I bet that thing needs an awful lot of stiring)
Forget anything VW group, the manual gearbox equivelant of wearing an entire Durex factory.
Forget Porsches - the ratios are far too long, the top of 2nd gear will get you a ticket on any B-road, and 3rd will get you a ban. An old 986 Boxster might be okay if you put tiny wheels on it, but the pedal is still floor mounted, which I find makes heel and toe impossible. By extension, this rules out BMWs too, including Minis.
If I were to guess, I'd bet that all the Civic Type Rs are great, as are the Suzuki Swift Sports and mk3 Toyota MR2s.
If it's a third car, I couldn't exclude a Busso V6 Alfa Romeo, not at least without trying one.
MX-5 seems to be the broad consensus. I've never liked the look of them really but should probably try one as I know how well-rated they are. Interesting comments on VW cars, as I was expecting someone to suggest a Golf GTI. I agree on the Porsche gearing, based on the Cayman R I used to have. Great car but that let it down, to the point I thought a PDK might suit it better. Not sure how the 2.7 cars are by comparison. Even so, I've done both 987 Boxster and Cayman so happy to try something different. I quite fancied a hatchback, having not run one for years and as a contrast to my SUV and current sports car. I remember test driving an EP3 Type-R when they were more or less new. The position of the gearstick was great and I liked the engine, though felt a bit upright seating-wise. Really appreciate the replies. Will get testing some stuff after the Christmas madness.
Before you go out and buy an mx5 I'll give my opinion as an owner of a 2.0 ND2.
Mine is a daily driver which does come with some compromises. Of course you get a nice low slung, sporty driving position. But I'm only 5 foot 8 and it's very snug in there. At the age of 53 it can also be a challenge getting out gracefully, especially if you're in a tight car parking space. I do like the way it drives although plenty of people will tell you it isn't very fast really. If you're used to large capacity or turbo then it can feel a bit underwhelming. Good enough when you get the revs up though.
Now the controversial bit....the gear change.
I often feel that journalists are compelled to go on about how incredible the mx5 gearbox is on reviews. But in my experience its okay at best. The shift is mechanical which is good in an old school way and it certainly feels at its best when you are caning it. Day to day though it's quite notchy/baulky in normal driving and when cold is very stiff to change between lower gears for the first 15 mins or so. Not great when your commute is 20 mins! I know many owners have searched for the perfect gearbox oil to address this but I've not found one yet.
Just wanted to offer some more insight. As a weekend car to be used on long country drives it makes perfect sense. But you already have a sports car so it may be worth thinking how exactly you'd use it.
I'll keep mine a while as generally it's a great little car. And I can't think what else I'd buy instead at the moment.
Mine is a daily driver which does come with some compromises. Of course you get a nice low slung, sporty driving position. But I'm only 5 foot 8 and it's very snug in there. At the age of 53 it can also be a challenge getting out gracefully, especially if you're in a tight car parking space. I do like the way it drives although plenty of people will tell you it isn't very fast really. If you're used to large capacity or turbo then it can feel a bit underwhelming. Good enough when you get the revs up though.
Now the controversial bit....the gear change.
I often feel that journalists are compelled to go on about how incredible the mx5 gearbox is on reviews. But in my experience its okay at best. The shift is mechanical which is good in an old school way and it certainly feels at its best when you are caning it. Day to day though it's quite notchy/baulky in normal driving and when cold is very stiff to change between lower gears for the first 15 mins or so. Not great when your commute is 20 mins! I know many owners have searched for the perfect gearbox oil to address this but I've not found one yet.
Just wanted to offer some more insight. As a weekend car to be used on long country drives it makes perfect sense. But you already have a sports car so it may be worth thinking how exactly you'd use it.
I'll keep mine a while as generally it's a great little car. And I can't think what else I'd buy instead at the moment.
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