Selling a SORNED car to someone from abroad
Discussion
Someone is coming to buy my car tomorrow from Europe. I'm happy that they're legit (YouTuber with a sizeable following) and will wait for funds to clear before releasing the car etc etc.
Only question is as a result of the car being SORNed.
As long as I have a date and time stamped, signed invoice saying he bought the car, is that enough to send to the DVLA if I get a SORN fine or speeding ticket? Since I'll be filling out the export section which requires posting (no online option) so the system will still see the car as mine in the time he takes to drive to Dover.
Yes I could tax it but then I'm out £80 as the refund is done based on when they receive the letter which will be next month, so I get stung for 2 months tax on a sub 2K car, an RX8 for anyone wondering.
Only question is as a result of the car being SORNed.
As long as I have a date and time stamped, signed invoice saying he bought the car, is that enough to send to the DVLA if I get a SORN fine or speeding ticket? Since I'll be filling out the export section which requires posting (no online option) so the system will still see the car as mine in the time he takes to drive to Dover.
Yes I could tax it but then I'm out £80 as the refund is done based on when they receive the letter which will be next month, so I get stung for 2 months tax on a sub 2K car, an RX8 for anyone wondering.
When he arrives to pick up the car do the "transfer" online, no longer your problem.
AKA don't send ANYTHING to DVLA, do it instantly there & then, no date/time stamped anything required.
I would, however get a signed receipt for the sale of the car mentioning that the car is SORN'd and them accepting all responsibility for it, signed by both.
AKA don't send ANYTHING to DVLA, do it instantly there & then, no date/time stamped anything required.
I would, however get a signed receipt for the sale of the car mentioning that the car is SORN'd and them accepting all responsibility for it, signed by both.
Edited by E-bmw on Wednesday 28th January 18:59
paul_c123 said:
Make sure you sell it between 7am and 7pm.
We're in the 21st century now mate, their site works until 9pm on weekdays, and 8pm on the weekend, technology knows no bounds 
Unfortunately they haven't managed to digitise the export part of the V5. The online ownership transfer only works to sell to those with a UK address.
Aaaah apologies, I thought there was an online way of doing it - but being an export it doesn't surprise me that there isn't. Not tried it after 7pm yet either, that's news to me about the 9pm limit.
But all the above isn't your concern, so long as if any trouble comes your way, you can convince the authorities of the Shaggy defence.
HarvB said:
is that enough to send to the DVLA if I get a SORN fine or speeding ticket?
I would say "maybe". AIUI there is no such thing as an export plate in the UK, but there is the Vienna Convention which means its legal to drive a foreign (registered) car on UK roads so long as it conforms to their country's laws. I don't know if its destination country issues "import plates" or "trade plates" or whether your buyer would have organised himself to do that; or possibly organised lifted transport out the country. And he certainly won't be running on UK trade plates. I suppose you could remove the number plates upon sale, giving him a headache. And that's just registration, there is obviously the question of tax and insurance too.But all the above isn't your concern, so long as if any trouble comes your way, you can convince the authorities of the Shaggy defence.
OutInTheShed said:
Are they going to drive it or trailer it?
I can't see why SORN makes any difference as SORN ends when you sell the car.
I don't know, nor is it my problem as, like you say, I'll have sold the car.I can't see why SORN makes any difference as SORN ends when you sell the car.
But since I have to post off the export part, the system will still have me as the keeper while he drives (if he does), so any ANPR cameras will trigger a letter to me, with the onus falling on me to prove that I wasn't driving.
Super Sonic said:
Send off the new keeper slip with his name and address.
You are not exporting the car, you are selling in the UK. The buyer is exporting it.
You are not exporting the car, you are selling in the UK. The buyer is exporting it.
LastPoster said:
Presumably you aren't exporting the car, the buyer is. So he ought to provide a UK address for you to use the online transfer
https://www.gov.uk/responsibilities-selling-vehicleSee the bottom of this page, I'm doing it correctly.
Fair enough 
Time and date the receipt, I did similar when selling a SORNed non runner that the new owner picked up the car using an A frame. I didn't want to have to get into too much argument if he got picked up on ANPR (I know there is a debate about the legalities of use of A frames, I didn't feel it was legal but not my concern)
Time and date the receipt, I did similar when selling a SORNed non runner that the new owner picked up the car using an A frame. I didn't want to have to get into too much argument if he got picked up on ANPR (I know there is a debate about the legalities of use of A frames, I didn't feel it was legal but not my concern)
LastPoster said:
Fair enough
Time and date the receipt, I did similar when selling a SORNed non runner that the new owner picked up the car using an A frame. I didn't want to have to get into too much argument if he got picked up on ANPR (I know there is a debate about the legalities of use of A frames, I didn't feel it was legal but not my concern)
Seems I'm thinking along the right lines then. I think I'll ask the bloke if he wants me to tax it to save him the hassle, and add the cost to the sale price. Although from his perspective I'm not sure why he'd care much either way, not sure what the police would even do given the context!Time and date the receipt, I did similar when selling a SORNed non runner that the new owner picked up the car using an A frame. I didn't want to have to get into too much argument if he got picked up on ANPR (I know there is a debate about the legalities of use of A frames, I didn't feel it was legal but not my concern)
HarvB said:
OutInTheShed said:
Are they going to drive it or trailer it?
I can't see why SORN makes any difference as SORN ends when you sell the car.
I don't know, nor is it my problem as, like you say, I'll have sold the car.I can't see why SORN makes any difference as SORN ends when you sell the car.
But since I have to post off the export part, the system will still have me as the keeper while he drives (if he does), so any ANPR cameras will trigger a letter to me, with the onus falling on me to prove that I wasn't driving.
It's a bit of grief and annoyance.
If you don't trust the buyer to be a gentleman, factor that into the price you'll accept.
If they are trailering a car, or putting a bike in a van, your risks are lower.
Most of the vehicles I've sold, I've had a reasonable rapport with the buyer and trusting them a bit has turned out OK.
OutInTheShed said:
Many of us have sold cars, received speeding tickets, ULEZ things, congestion charge things, whatever, and not paid them after a little correspondence.
It's a bit of grief and annoyance.
If you don't trust the buyer to be a gentleman, factor that into the price you'll accept.
If they are trailering a car, or putting a bike in a van, your risks are lower.
Most of the vehicles I've sold, I've had a reasonable rapport with the buyer and trusting them a bit has turned out OK.
You're spot on there, unfortunately having not been sure he'd actually take the flight over means I've reduced the price from £2500 (when he first messaged) to £1750, and being an honest bloke, I'll honour that for him too.It's a bit of grief and annoyance.
If you don't trust the buyer to be a gentleman, factor that into the price you'll accept.
If they are trailering a car, or putting a bike in a van, your risks are lower.
Most of the vehicles I've sold, I've had a reasonable rapport with the buyer and trusting them a bit has turned out OK.
I guess you'll just have to fill in and post the export section. I can't see that there are any options. Maybe the will only charge tax til the end of January, if you sell on the 29th. The fact that they won't get the form til February shouldn't make any difference to that. If you bought a car on the 29th Jan, and posted the V5 and they didn't receive it til February, would they say "We only got the form in February so we're not going to charge you for January tax"? Would they buggery!
Super Sonic said:
I guess you'll just have to fill in and post the export section. I can't see that there are any options. Maybe the will only charge tax til the end of January, if you sell on the 29th. The fact that they won't get the form til February shouldn't make any difference to that. If you bought a car on the 29th Jan, and posted the V5 and they didn't receive it til February, would they say "We only got the form in February so we're not going to charge you for January tax"? Would they buggery!
Unfortunately they've thought of that too: "If you’re due a refund, you’ll usually get it within 4 to 6 weeks. The refund is worked out from the date DVLA gets your ‘permanent export’ section." I suppose you could send it off recorded delivery and argue the toss.
I'm still waiting for a refund on the tax I was charged for December after SORNing my Celica at the end of November, thieving b
ds.HarvB said:
Seems I'm thinking along the right lines then. I think I'll ask the bloke if he wants me to tax it to save him the hassle, and add the cost to the sale price. Although from his perspective I'm not sure why he'd care much either way, not sure what the police would even do given the context!
As mentioned above, whilst taxing it would prevent ANPR cameras from flagging it, the tax (or SORN) is legally cancelled/voided at the point of sale these days.How far will he have to drive in the UK? If you're that worried, leg it to the post office as soon as he goes (or get him to wait) and post it recorded/signed for, then you'll have a timestamp on the receipt from the post office.
OK, 2 points.
If you were to tax it for 1 month, then sell it (as mentioned above) the refund starts after it is received, so for the cost of 1 month, he will have it home before any ANPR triggers are made.
Although as you say once sold it isn't your problem.
Assuming he is going to insure it before taking it away get him to email you his insurance docs when he does them as that way you will have date/time/owner details for proof on top of the money transfer time/details when the purchase is completed.
If you were to tax it for 1 month, then sell it (as mentioned above) the refund starts after it is received, so for the cost of 1 month, he will have it home before any ANPR triggers are made.
Although as you say once sold it isn't your problem.
Assuming he is going to insure it before taking it away get him to email you his insurance docs when he does them as that way you will have date/time/owner details for proof on top of the money transfer time/details when the purchase is completed.
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