what b-road car for supercar rallies support car?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm looking for a car to use on supercar rallies I help organise around europe, something that can be quite quick on mountain roads as well as hold a decent pace on long sweeping roads too, while not being too flashy.
This is a cart that will be used as an occasional lead car/mid pack car in bigger groups - something to not hold up too much the folks that are running behind in stuff like Pistas, 918s, LTs, GMAs (wont be possible in open roads but should be quite ok in the tighter stages).
The requirements:
- Quite reliable
- Somewhat discrete but also interesting looking
- interesting, fun to drive
- no fwd (nothing against it, just not for me)
- could hold its value in the next few years
- I'll use it as a weekend fun/occasional track car when not on tour duty
So far im considering:
- Audi s1- not super interesting but it's quite cheap and I was surprised at how it can also be a fun steer when I tried a friends a few years ago, easy to make it move around a bit so thats nice. Discrete enough, but boring looking too, maybe not enough power?
- Gr yaris - Tried a modded 300hp one and quite enjoyed it, mainly for its ability to carry good speed in mountain roads. The fun aspect is mainly "How fast can I go on this road" more than the driving feeling, I felt. I do feel it's quite an interesting car, the whole rally homologation side of it and all.
- og m2 - Quite like the looks of it, while having space, seats and a nice engine. Could the handling be fast enough for what I need?
- 987 cayman - I enjoy Caymans, having tried a friends 987 S but wondering for the discrete bit as well as if it would be fast enough as well.
We have an A110 in the fleet we use as a lead car and it does the job quite well, but I dont want to stretch to the 55k budget needed to get a base one - otherwise brilliant car.
(Budget would be 35/40k)
Would anyone have any other suggestions or advice? Would be much appreciated!
Thanks
I'm looking for a car to use on supercar rallies I help organise around europe, something that can be quite quick on mountain roads as well as hold a decent pace on long sweeping roads too, while not being too flashy.
This is a cart that will be used as an occasional lead car/mid pack car in bigger groups - something to not hold up too much the folks that are running behind in stuff like Pistas, 918s, LTs, GMAs (wont be possible in open roads but should be quite ok in the tighter stages).
The requirements:
- Quite reliable
- Somewhat discrete but also interesting looking
- interesting, fun to drive
- no fwd (nothing against it, just not for me)
- could hold its value in the next few years
- I'll use it as a weekend fun/occasional track car when not on tour duty
So far im considering:
- Audi s1- not super interesting but it's quite cheap and I was surprised at how it can also be a fun steer when I tried a friends a few years ago, easy to make it move around a bit so thats nice. Discrete enough, but boring looking too, maybe not enough power?
- Gr yaris - Tried a modded 300hp one and quite enjoyed it, mainly for its ability to carry good speed in mountain roads. The fun aspect is mainly "How fast can I go on this road" more than the driving feeling, I felt. I do feel it's quite an interesting car, the whole rally homologation side of it and all.
- og m2 - Quite like the looks of it, while having space, seats and a nice engine. Could the handling be fast enough for what I need?
- 987 cayman - I enjoy Caymans, having tried a friends 987 S but wondering for the discrete bit as well as if it would be fast enough as well.
We have an A110 in the fleet we use as a lead car and it does the job quite well, but I dont want to stretch to the 55k budget needed to get a base one - otherwise brilliant car.
(Budget would be 35/40k)
Would anyone have any other suggestions or advice? Would be much appreciated!
Thanks
If you like the Alpine, then go & drive an Evora it ticks the boxes & yes they're reliable too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202504040...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202504040...
I had an M2 OG and took it on track. Only car in your list I haven’t driven in anger is the S1 (did drive one with a ruined clutch but).
M2 is brilliant car and fantastic handling. A lot easier to live with than the other cars being more practical, more comfortable and a lot less noisey in the cabin. Easily sounds the best and offers the most fun. Lots have made their way to tracks in Europe and have a serious following thanks to its reliability. To track it you are looking at just pads and fluids. I’ve always described it as a grown ups Fiesta ST and their is enough YouTube reviews to get a picture. Hardest car on the list to drive fast as you are managing a lot of oversteer and additional weight but if you have the skill comfortably the fastest. Is perfectly comfortable at super car speeds.
If the Alpine A110 does the job the M2 will as well.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mp6hbgmhkuil
Other option is the M2 Comp. Less fun but more mature than the OG, sounds worse, slightly more expensive to run and S55 has potential crankshaft issues. Nicer seats make a difference to the cabin. However a simple tune gives you 500hp and lifts the performance significantly despite both cars being very similar stock.. You’ll struggle to get an N55 to 500hp. Also applies to the M4.
Really recommend you get a good test drive in one!
Mk3 Focus RS is also a shout over the Yaris GR and S1 as offers more across the board. Mountune will help you get extra power out as although faster than a stock Yaris GR they aren’t as fast as the headline HP figure suggests. Can be marmite as some people just don’t like Ford and does not look as discrete.
M2 is brilliant car and fantastic handling. A lot easier to live with than the other cars being more practical, more comfortable and a lot less noisey in the cabin. Easily sounds the best and offers the most fun. Lots have made their way to tracks in Europe and have a serious following thanks to its reliability. To track it you are looking at just pads and fluids. I’ve always described it as a grown ups Fiesta ST and their is enough YouTube reviews to get a picture. Hardest car on the list to drive fast as you are managing a lot of oversteer and additional weight but if you have the skill comfortably the fastest. Is perfectly comfortable at super car speeds.
If the Alpine A110 does the job the M2 will as well.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mp6hbgmhkuil
Other option is the M2 Comp. Less fun but more mature than the OG, sounds worse, slightly more expensive to run and S55 has potential crankshaft issues. Nicer seats make a difference to the cabin. However a simple tune gives you 500hp and lifts the performance significantly despite both cars being very similar stock.. You’ll struggle to get an N55 to 500hp. Also applies to the M4.
Really recommend you get a good test drive in one!
Mk3 Focus RS is also a shout over the Yaris GR and S1 as offers more across the board. Mountune will help you get extra power out as although faster than a stock Yaris GR they aren’t as fast as the headline HP figure suggests. Can be marmite as some people just don’t like Ford and does not look as discrete.
I'd look at the Merc A45 AMG or the Audi RS3, they're the 'obvious' candidates for speed across ground.
Outside possibility could be a 996 or 997 Turbo.
Outside possibility could be a 996 or 997 Turbo.
ScoobyChris said:
A nice classic Scooby or Evo and change 
In some ways yes, however these are older cars now so reliability would be a question. Also, it's hard to find support for old JDM stuff on the Continent in my experience, if you need a part eg on the Route Napoleon, they haven't had these cars grey-imported as we have.
andrewpandrew said:
That’s my choice! andrewpandrew said:
At least it would be easy to find and follow me! Very cool, quite a bit over my budget as they cost quite a lot in europe unfortunately, otherwise mega
ZX10R NIN said:
If you like the Alpine, then go & drive an Evora it ticks the boxes & yes they're reliable too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202504040...
Really like the look of an Evora, and having previously owned an Elise s2 I always keep on trying to find excuses to get back into something made by Hethel, but afraid its also out of budget around here - they're 45/50k for a non supercharged version. Really like them thoughhttps://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202504040...
CG2020UK said:
I had an M2 OG and took it on track. Only car in your list I haven t driven in anger is the S1 (did drive one with a ruined clutch but).
M2 is brilliant car and fantastic handling. A lot easier to live with than the other cars being more practical, more comfortable and a lot less noisey in the cabin. Easily sounds the best and offers the most fun. Lots have made their way to tracks in Europe and have a serious following thanks to its reliability. To track it you are looking at just pads and fluids. I ve always described it as a grown ups Fiesta ST and their is enough YouTube reviews to get a picture. Hardest car on the list to drive fast as you are managing a lot of oversteer and additional weight but if you have the skill comfortably the fastest. Is perfectly comfortable at super car speeds.
If the Alpine A110 does the job the M2 will as well.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mp6hbgmhkuil
Other option is the M2 Comp. Less fun but more mature than the OG, sounds worse, slightly more expensive to run and S55 has potential crankshaft issues. Nicer seats make a difference to the cabin. However a simple tune gives you 500hp and lifts the performance significantly despite both cars being very similar stock.. You ll struggle to get an N55 to 500hp. Also applies to the M4.
Really recommend you get a good test drive in one!
Mk3 Focus RS is also a shout over the Yaris GR and S1 as offers more across the board. Mountune will help you get extra power out as although faster than a stock Yaris GR they aren t as fast as the headline HP figure suggests. Can be marmite as some people just don t like Ford and does not look as discrete.
That's awesome, thanks for the detailed insight on the m2, appreciate it M2 is brilliant car and fantastic handling. A lot easier to live with than the other cars being more practical, more comfortable and a lot less noisey in the cabin. Easily sounds the best and offers the most fun. Lots have made their way to tracks in Europe and have a serious following thanks to its reliability. To track it you are looking at just pads and fluids. I ve always described it as a grown ups Fiesta ST and their is enough YouTube reviews to get a picture. Hardest car on the list to drive fast as you are managing a lot of oversteer and additional weight but if you have the skill comfortably the fastest. Is perfectly comfortable at super car speeds.
If the Alpine A110 does the job the M2 will as well.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mp6hbgmhkuil
Other option is the M2 Comp. Less fun but more mature than the OG, sounds worse, slightly more expensive to run and S55 has potential crankshaft issues. Nicer seats make a difference to the cabin. However a simple tune gives you 500hp and lifts the performance significantly despite both cars being very similar stock.. You ll struggle to get an N55 to 500hp. Also applies to the M4.
Really recommend you get a good test drive in one!
Mk3 Focus RS is also a shout over the Yaris GR and S1 as offers more across the board. Mountune will help you get extra power out as although faster than a stock Yaris GR they aren t as fast as the headline HP figure suggests. Can be marmite as some people just don t like Ford and does not look as discrete.
I do quite like the idea of getting one for this, good to know they can be driven fast then. Only ever tried a couple of regular g80 bmw estate cars, I was quite surprised at how decent the handling was given how heavy they are on paper.
Would they benefit straightaway from some ohlins or can they be driven as is with just some uprated pads and fluid as you mention?
Good call for the focus rs as well, those completely slipped my mind too, will see what I can find around here
ScoobyChris said:
A nice classic Scooby or Evo and change
Honestly would love either one but am afraid of the reliability issues of the 2.5 lump we only got in europe, no 2.0 models were sold around here if im not mistaken. I see some people selling examples that have been modified with forged builds but...not sure I want to buy someone else's project.And evos - so cool. Would an evo x be ok or should I look at the 7/8/9 which are more expensive?
samoht said:
I'd look at the Merc A45 AMG or the Audi RS3, they're the 'obvious' candidates for speed across ground.
Outside possibility could be a 996 or 997 Turbo.
There are some jdm specialists around europe I could rely on, but Id rather not have something that would need any fettling at all after a few rallies, if possible. Outside possibility could be a 996 or 997 Turbo.
ScoobyChris said:
A nice classic Scooby or Evo and change
In some ways yes, however these are older cars now so reliability would be a question. Also, it's hard to find support for old JDM stuff on the Continent in my experience, if you need a part eg on the Route Napoleon, they haven't had these cars grey-imported as we have.Would love a 996 turbo, but out of my budget for now. 50k around here gets you one with an automatic, which I dont think id be happy with in this car. otherwise 60k + for a 120k mile example..
Loafers92 said:
That's awesome, thanks for the detailed insight on the m2, appreciate it
I do quite like the idea of getting one for this, good to know they can be driven fast then. Only ever tried a couple of regular g80 bmw estate cars, I was quite surprised at how decent the handling was given how heavy they are on paper.
Would they benefit straightaway from some ohlins or can they be driven as is with just some uprated pads and fluid as you mention?
Good call for the focus rs as well, those completely slipped my mind too, will see what I can find around here
I love the G80 M3 but the M2 drives quite different. M2 is a lot more raw and energetic, almost think the most extreme version a hot hatch can be (without actually being a hot hatch). A G80 will be faster but in order to be so it needs to have more grip and stability, hence it feels more mature. I do quite like the idea of getting one for this, good to know they can be driven fast then. Only ever tried a couple of regular g80 bmw estate cars, I was quite surprised at how decent the handling was given how heavy they are on paper.
Would they benefit straightaway from some ohlins or can they be driven as is with just some uprated pads and fluid as you mention?
Good call for the focus rs as well, those completely slipped my mind too, will see what I can find around here
My M2 was completely stock except for pads and fluid (DS2500 and Castrol SRF) and I was still very fast on track days relative to other metal. Although fast I still had more headroom at stock. I’d have went track specific pads and tyres next then probably an upgraded intercooler (N55 was perfectly happy running sessions back to back but just wanted to be safe). Upgrading can be a money pit but you’d be best asking the M2 owners Facebook page as some serious hardcore drivers on there who could answer better than me. As stock but an OG M2 is definitely set up on there who could focussed side of modern cars that isn’t really done anymore.
Also Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio for your list. I actually test drove both and preferred the M2 but they are also really strong contender. Prices have went up however and not really a used bargain.
Loafers92 said:
ZX10R NIN said:
If you like the Alpine, then go & drive an Evora it ticks the boxes & yes they're reliable too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202504040...
Really like the look of an Evora, and having previously owned an Elise s2 I always keep on trying to find excuses to get back into something made by Hethel, but afraid its also out of budget around here - they're 45/50k for a non supercharged version. Really like them thoughhttps://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202504040...
What country are you in OP? Not sure on prices outside of UK
I suspect you'd want something with 4 usable seats so you can give lifts to someone who broke down etc.
I'd be looking at a 340i estate or the 4-series coupe hatchback, or the 3-GT if you are on first name terms with the local Specsavers.
(Or a decent sized hot hatch (I know there was a 'no fwd' requirement) - Golf etc.)
I'd be looking at a 340i estate or the 4-series coupe hatchback, or the 3-GT if you are on first name terms with the local Specsavers.
(Or a decent sized hot hatch (I know there was a 'no fwd' requirement) - Golf etc.)
Chris_i8 said:
GR Yaris was the car that immediately came to mind just from reading the thread title.
Golf R, M135i, A45. TT RS....competent but not fun.
Current gen M3 must be dropping into or around that budget figure nowadays?!
Current gen M3 is a struggle to find under 50k still. If they could be found under 40 i'd be looking at them too to replace my F82 M4 but even a nice F series M4 is a struggle to find much under 30k with sensible miles. There's plenty of cheaper dogs around now though.Golf R, M135i, A45. TT RS....competent but not fun.
Current gen M3 must be dropping into or around that budget figure nowadays?!
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