Advice needed on broken used car
Discussion
Hi All,
In July I bought a W213 E Class Coupe from an independent used dealer. Ignoring a separate issue which the dealer didn’t want to help with in early November, on Boxing Day the car failed to start. In early January I got the car towed to an auto electrician I have used for this cars previous issue.
At the time of it not starting I spoke with Citizens Advice as it was coming up close to the 6 months of ownership. We agreed I would send them a recorded letter to make them aware of the issue and that it would be getting diagnosed and I would come back to them when I knew more.
There was a bit of a delay after the Christmas break in getting the car looked at but I didn’t mind and have no problem at all with the auto electrician who has been excellent.
After a lot of work (including using Xentry) it was believed the ignition control module (EZS) was the culprit. A new EZS arrived earlier this week and was programmed and fitted. Initially the car started but after it being locked and then the guys coming back to it later in the day, it was back to square one and refused to start. The car is showing no error codes and the guys are going to go back from the start and go through all the stages of diagnosis they did before. Mercedes techs in Germany will be contacted by them to login to Xentry and look at the data to try and help.
My family are pushing me to take it to an MB dealer. This is not the route I want to take and I also know that the local MB dealers outsource the most troublesome cars to this auto electrician so they will likely call them to ask if they can send it to them!
Its mainly a waiting game at the moment and I just need it fixed so I can get it sold as the trust in it has completely gone. Citizens Advice told me in December that after six months the burden of proof lies with me getting it diagnosed etc which has been my intention since Boxing Day.
Really in an ideal world, I just want to return the car to the dealer and get my money back (minus some of the value for the miles I have put on it since owning it) but I don’t know if I can even request that. Was going to speak to Citizens Advice on Monday to say where I am up to and is there anything that can be done. This could take months to sort out and god knows what the bill will be at the end too.
Has anyone been in a position sort of like this after the six months and managed to return a car? I am not sure if there is but have to ask as this seems never ending!
Any advice would be really appreciated
In July I bought a W213 E Class Coupe from an independent used dealer. Ignoring a separate issue which the dealer didn’t want to help with in early November, on Boxing Day the car failed to start. In early January I got the car towed to an auto electrician I have used for this cars previous issue.
At the time of it not starting I spoke with Citizens Advice as it was coming up close to the 6 months of ownership. We agreed I would send them a recorded letter to make them aware of the issue and that it would be getting diagnosed and I would come back to them when I knew more.
There was a bit of a delay after the Christmas break in getting the car looked at but I didn’t mind and have no problem at all with the auto electrician who has been excellent.
After a lot of work (including using Xentry) it was believed the ignition control module (EZS) was the culprit. A new EZS arrived earlier this week and was programmed and fitted. Initially the car started but after it being locked and then the guys coming back to it later in the day, it was back to square one and refused to start. The car is showing no error codes and the guys are going to go back from the start and go through all the stages of diagnosis they did before. Mercedes techs in Germany will be contacted by them to login to Xentry and look at the data to try and help.
My family are pushing me to take it to an MB dealer. This is not the route I want to take and I also know that the local MB dealers outsource the most troublesome cars to this auto electrician so they will likely call them to ask if they can send it to them!
Its mainly a waiting game at the moment and I just need it fixed so I can get it sold as the trust in it has completely gone. Citizens Advice told me in December that after six months the burden of proof lies with me getting it diagnosed etc which has been my intention since Boxing Day.
Really in an ideal world, I just want to return the car to the dealer and get my money back (minus some of the value for the miles I have put on it since owning it) but I don’t know if I can even request that. Was going to speak to Citizens Advice on Monday to say where I am up to and is there anything that can be done. This could take months to sort out and god knows what the bill will be at the end too.
Has anyone been in a position sort of like this after the six months and managed to return a car? I am not sure if there is but have to ask as this seems never ending!
Any advice would be really appreciated
Well your first issue is you tried to sort the issue yourself instead of going back to the dealer and giving them the opportunity to rectify as under the CRA.
Id say you've got a battle on, dealer could argue the independent guy made it worse. Doesn't matter legally if he's the expert, the rules are the dealer needs a chance to sort it.
How old is the car (I'm not familiar with Mercedes numbering ) If its 10 years, then dodgy electrics is expected in a Mercedes. If its 3 years, then dodgy electrics is expected in a Mercedes.
Id say you've got a battle on, dealer could argue the independent guy made it worse. Doesn't matter legally if he's the expert, the rules are the dealer needs a chance to sort it.
How old is the car (I'm not familiar with Mercedes numbering ) If its 10 years, then dodgy electrics is expected in a Mercedes. If its 3 years, then dodgy electrics is expected in a Mercedes.
Thank you for your thoughts and most appreciated
I didn’t go to them as with the other fault in early November they didnt want to know. I remember asking about that on here at the time as the feedback from the dealer was “it would be unethical to help when considering their other customers”. I did push a bit more but again they pushed back. At the time I (in hindsight wrongly) decided to sort it out myself if the bill wasn’t mega high. It cost £500 so wrote it off to accept it and move on. What I didnt expect is whats happened six weeks after that.
I did tell Citizens Advice all of this and they did say if the failure now is a result of the first repair then the auto electricians are responsible. The fault in question was a failed boot motor. I will be staggered if that has anything to do with this. But I was very clear with CA on all of the above and they said I was still within my rights to pursue it, just the burden of proof on me after 6 months and I would need the diagnosis from the auto electrician.
Car is 7 years old. Had done 42k miles when I got it, at 50k when it refused to start. And how I wish I had known Merc electrics can be so problematic!
I didn’t go to them as with the other fault in early November they didnt want to know. I remember asking about that on here at the time as the feedback from the dealer was “it would be unethical to help when considering their other customers”. I did push a bit more but again they pushed back. At the time I (in hindsight wrongly) decided to sort it out myself if the bill wasn’t mega high. It cost £500 so wrote it off to accept it and move on. What I didnt expect is whats happened six weeks after that.
I did tell Citizens Advice all of this and they did say if the failure now is a result of the first repair then the auto electricians are responsible. The fault in question was a failed boot motor. I will be staggered if that has anything to do with this. But I was very clear with CA on all of the above and they said I was still within my rights to pursue it, just the burden of proof on me after 6 months and I would need the diagnosis from the auto electrician.
Car is 7 years old. Had done 42k miles when I got it, at 50k when it refused to start. And how I wish I had known Merc electrics can be so problematic!
There will be a couple of major stumbling blocks with this from a (CRA2015) perspective.
The first will be that the supplying dealer has not had a chance to resolve the issue, and you took the vehicle elsewhere. When this is overlaid with it being an electrical issue - (which are by their very nature, sometimes very difficult to diagnose) then the dealer will point the finger at the Spark, and proving otherwise will be nigh-on impossible.
The second will be the sixth month issue. The dealer will be of the opinion that has the vehicle has travelled 7k miles in that period, and it now presents itself as a none-start, then it obviously was of satisfactory quality, as described, and fit for purpose at the point of sale.
The first will be that the supplying dealer has not had a chance to resolve the issue, and you took the vehicle elsewhere. When this is overlaid with it being an electrical issue - (which are by their very nature, sometimes very difficult to diagnose) then the dealer will point the finger at the Spark, and proving otherwise will be nigh-on impossible.
The second will be the sixth month issue. The dealer will be of the opinion that has the vehicle has travelled 7k miles in that period, and it now presents itself as a none-start, then it obviously was of satisfactory quality, as described, and fit for purpose at the point of sale.
The best thing to do is to take it to Merc. They charge a diagnostic fee - the last time I used them it was £225 including VAT. For that you get 1hr of diagnostics, which will include software updates and a proper look at the problem. They ll then let you know what needs doing and it s up to you if you want to progress further.
Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 22 February 08:50
maz8062 said:
The best thing to do is to take it to Merc. They charge a diagnostic fee - the last time I used them it was £225 including VAT. For that you get 1hr of diagnostics, which will include software updates and a proper look at the problem. They ll then let you know what needs doing and it s up to you if you want to progress further.
Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Hi Maz, Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 22 February 08:50
Thank you very much for your help
The EZS was programmed by the auto electrician and they are using Xentry. The new EZS is a genuine OEM part, it had to come from Mercedes in Germany.
I am not sure if they have the old EZS…probably but I can check.
I have thought about taking it to Merc. Bar having to get it towed again, my major concern is that when the car is plugged in its not throwing any error codes, so I am worried Mercedes will either…
a, Spend many more than one hour diagnosing it and be unable to suggest a fix which will cost a lot in labour. (They are then likely to call the same auto electrician to ask him to take it in as this is what the local MB dealers do when they cant solve it)
b, Throw potentially unnecessary parts at it like an ECU and I will be none the wiser but again have a potentially massive bill
As a separate thought, is it worth considering to put an extended Merc warranty on it for £1000 (should have just done this when I got the car in the first place), wait a month as per their T&C’s and then send it in to Merc and then hopefully it covers all of what the bill will be?
I agree with what you and the others have said on CRA. It is tricky as the dealer flat refused to help with the boot motor. All too late now though obviously to go back and reverse time!
AddyT. said:
maz8062 said:
The best thing to do is to take it to Merc. They charge a diagnostic fee - the last time I used them it was £225 including VAT. For that you get 1hr of diagnostics, which will include software updates and a proper look at the problem. They ll then let you know what needs doing and it s up to you if you want to progress further.
Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Hi Maz, Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 22 February 08:50
Thank you very much for your help
The EZS was programmed by the auto electrician and they are using Xentry. The new EZS is a genuine OEM part, it had to come from Mercedes in Germany.
I am not sure if they have the old EZS probably but I can check.
I have thought about taking it to Merc. Bar having to get it towed again, my major concern is that when the car is plugged in its not throwing any error codes, so I am worried Mercedes will either
a, Spend many more than one hour diagnosing it and be unable to suggest a fix which will cost a lot in labour. (They are then likely to call the same auto electrician to ask him to take it in as this is what the local MB dealers do when they cant solve it)
b, Throw potentially unnecessary parts at it like an ECU and I will be none the wiser but again have a potentially massive bill
As a separate thought, is it worth considering to put an extended Merc warranty on it for £1000 (should have just done this when I got the car in the first place), wait a month as per their T&C s and then send it in to Merc and then hopefully it covers all of what the bill will be?
I agree with what you and the others have said on CRA. It is tricky as the dealer flat refused to help with the boot motor. All too late now though obviously to go back and reverse time!
I think you have no chance after 5.5 months and 7000 miles claiming the fault was present at the time of sale
ConnectionError said:
AddyT. said:
maz8062 said:
The best thing to do is to take it to Merc. They charge a diagnostic fee - the last time I used them it was £225 including VAT. For that you get 1hr of diagnostics, which will include software updates and a proper look at the problem. They ll then let you know what needs doing and it s up to you if you want to progress further.
Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Hi Maz, Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 22 February 08:50
Thank you very much for your help
The EZS was programmed by the auto electrician and they are using Xentry. The new EZS is a genuine OEM part, it had to come from Mercedes in Germany.
I am not sure if they have the old EZS probably but I can check.
I have thought about taking it to Merc. Bar having to get it towed again, my major concern is that when the car is plugged in its not throwing any error codes, so I am worried Mercedes will either
a, Spend many more than one hour diagnosing it and be unable to suggest a fix which will cost a lot in labour. (They are then likely to call the same auto electrician to ask him to take it in as this is what the local MB dealers do when they cant solve it)
b, Throw potentially unnecessary parts at it like an ECU and I will be none the wiser but again have a potentially massive bill
As a separate thought, is it worth considering to put an extended Merc warranty on it for £1000 (should have just done this when I got the car in the first place), wait a month as per their T&C s and then send it in to Merc and then hopefully it covers all of what the bill will be?
I agree with what you and the others have said on CRA. It is tricky as the dealer flat refused to help with the boot motor. All too late now though obviously to go back and reverse time!
I think you have no chance after 5.5 months and 7000 miles claiming the fault was present at the time of sale
AddyT. said:
maz8062 said:
The best thing to do is to take it to Merc. They charge a diagnostic fee - the last time I used them it was £225 including VAT. For that you get 1hr of diagnostics, which will include software updates and a proper look at the problem. They ll then let you know what needs doing and it s up to you if you want to progress further.
Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Hi Maz, Was the EZS programmed by a Merc dealer with Xentry? If not, and assuming it s a genuine OEM part, that s your issue right there. There are certain security parts that can only be coded by a Merc dealer. Either way the diagnostics is the way to go if you want to fix it.
Do you have the old EZS? If not, try and get it back.
Going down the CRA route will be complicated as you ve fine too much to the car already, especially the EZS replacement.
Edited by maz8062 on Sunday 22 February 08:50
Thank you very much for your help
The EZS was programmed by the auto electrician and they are using Xentry. The new EZS is a genuine OEM part, it had to come from Mercedes in Germany.
I am not sure if they have the old EZS probably but I can check.
I have thought about taking it to Merc. Bar having to get it towed again, my major concern is that when the car is plugged in its not throwing any error codes, so I am worried Mercedes will either
a, Spend many more than one hour diagnosing it and be unable to suggest a fix which will cost a lot in labour. (They are then likely to call the same auto electrician to ask him to take it in as this is what the local MB dealers do when they cant solve it)
b, Throw potentially unnecessary parts at it like an ECU and I will be none the wiser but again have a potentially massive bill
As a separate thought, is it worth considering to put an extended Merc warranty on it for £1000 (should have just done this when I got the car in the first place), wait a month as per their T&C s and then send it in to Merc and then hopefully it covers all of what the bill will be?
I agree with what you and the others have said on CRA. It is tricky as the dealer flat refused to help with the boot motor. All too late now though obviously to go back and reverse time!
What to do? Give the service department of your local Merc dealer a call and ask the question about the module, and explain your issue and what to do. If you're lucky and they confirm that the module needs to be coded by them, they'll charge you for the diagnostics first, and the coding afterwards if it needs it. You can also ask them about the warranty and see if the work could be covered under a warranty. But your best bet is Merc, unfortunately.
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