What to check for potential PX sabotage

[UnfathomableBison]

Bought a used car from a dealer last Friday. Multiple serious faults presented themselves within 30 minutes of driving home. Exercised my right to reject and they have reluctantly agreed.

During the dispute the dealer claimed my part exchange had been "stripped down" and was undergoing a cambelt replacement, using this as financial leverage to prevent the return. They have since contradicted this in writing, stating the vehicle has not been dismantled or altered while in their possession.

I am collecting the vehicle I part exchanged tomorrow while returning the faulty vehicle and am concerned my PX may have been tampered with, either as spiteful retaliation or as a result of work being started and potentially abandoned or improperly reassembled. They are a cowboy outfit and very unprofessional. And before anyone says it, yes, I have learnt my lesson dealing with such places.

The car is a 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5 dCi. What should I be checking on collection and are there any tell tale signs that work has been started and not properly completed? Or any general sabotage methods that I should be aware of?

Any advice appreciated.

[Simon_GH]

I’d be surprised if they spent time and therefore money causing problems that they may end up having to fix. In the days of online reviews, I’m sure they’ll just want a peaceful settlement.

[UnfathomableBison]

Thanks for your response Simon.

Reasonable logic would say so. My concern is that they have handled this really unprofessionally and fabricated an entire story of the car being driven to an out of town shop, stripped and repaired, now to backtrack and say no work has been done at all.

[paul_c123]

Look under the bonnet to see if there's components missing, wires not clipped in, marks on bolt heads, hand smudges on the grime which would have been normally present, etc. Also look for greasy hand marks around the bonnet catch and door handles. And look in the boot for any components.

[John D.]

UnfathomableBison said:

Thanks for your response Simon.

Reasonable logic would say so. My concern is that they have handled this really unprofessionally and fabricated an entire story of the car being driven to an out of town shop, stripped and repaired, now to backtrack and say no work has been done at all.

They fabricated the story to try to put you off.

[maz8062]

Think about it - you've had their car, which I presume had no faults when you drove it off the forecourt. They're now agreeing to take the car back - broken, giving you your px back and cancelling the deal. Yet you're worried about your px being in exactly the condition that you sold it to them at. They're not a charity that waits for you to decide whether you want the car you've bought before they start trying to make money off it.

If you don't want the car, take it back and get yours back. Yes, having your cake and eating it too is nice, but try to be reasonable.

[steveo3002]

check the wheel nuts are tight , spare is present , oil level , oil filter and drain plug tight , rad fan fuse present /operational

[mcpoot]

maz8062 said:

Think about it - you've had their car, which I presume had no faults when you drove it off the forecourt. They're now agreeing to take the car back - broken, giving you your px back and cancelling the deal. Yet you're worried about your px being in exactly the condition that you sold it to them at. They're not a charity that waits for you to decide whether you want the car you've bought before they start trying to make money off it.

If you don't want the car, take it back and get yours back. Yes, having your cake and eating it too is nice, but try to be reasonable.

"Multiple serious faults presented themselves within 30 minutes of driving home."

So buyer exercises his legal rights and yet somehow in your world that equates to having his cake and eating it too. Give your head a wobble mate.

[ABMA]

maz8062 said:

Think about it - you've had their car, which I presume had no faults when you drove it off the forecourt. They're now agreeing to take the car back - broken, giving you your px back and cancelling the deal. Yet you're worried about your px being in exactly the condition that you sold it to them at. They're not a charity that waits for you to decide whether you want the car you've bought before they start trying to make money off it.

If you don't want the car, take it back and get yours back. Yes, having your cake and eating it too is nice, but try to be reasonable.

That s a weird reply.
Let us know what would you do if your were in OP shoes?

Edited by ABMA on Saturday 7th March 05:33

[CMTMB]

ABMA said:

maz8062 said:

Think about it - you've had their car, which I presume had no faults when you drove it off the forecourt. They're now agreeing to take the car back - broken, giving you your px back and cancelling the deal. Yet you're worried about your px being in exactly the condition that you sold it to them at. They're not a charity that waits for you to decide whether you want the car you've bought before they start trying to make money off it.

If you don't want the car, take it back and get yours back. Yes, having your cake and eating it too is nice, but try to be reasonable.

That s a weird reply.
Let us know what would you do if your were on OP shoes?

Weird replies are a speciality of Maz.

[UnfathomableBison]

Thank you everyone really appreciate the tips. It’ll no doubt just be scaring tactics and nothing having been altered at all but I’d rather be cautious than have it bite me in the rear end.

Maz, you sound as unbearable as the trader I’ve been dealing with.

[Blue_star]

Maz, are you the trader

Op, your worries should be proportionate to how much you swore at the guys. How many times did you use the f word? C word? T word? S? D? The other D?

Depending on answer Perhaps Maz is right to chuck some sugar in your petrol tank

[UnfathomableBison]

I’ve not sworn once, yet! Setting off to exchange back shortly, I’ll update later.

[maz8062]

Blue_star said:

Maz, are you the trader

Op, your worries should be proportionate to how much you swore at the guys. How many times did you use the f word? C word? T word? S? D? The other D?

Depending on answer Perhaps Maz is right to chuck some sugar in your petrol tank

Think about it. You're not a trader, you're a private seller. You advertise a car for sale, a second-hand car - it's not perfect, it is old. Someone offers their car in px, you accept and do the deal.

A few days later, they call you and say the car is fked, lots of lights on the dashboard. They don't want it, they want their money and their px back, and woe betide you if their px is not perfect - even though yours isn't, it's knackered. How would you feel?

For some, because they are traders, it is okay to beat up on them. To make them lose money. For everything to be stacked in your favour because you don't have the time, inclination or patience to work with the trader to fix it. Basically, you've changed your mind but want everything to be as it was when you bought it.

I get it, some traders are shysters, but I think this attitude of buying a product, using it, breaking it and handing it back for a 100% refund is what will kill this industry. Then we'll all lose.

[paul_c123]

maz8062 said:

Think about it. You're not a trader, you're a private seller. You advertise a car for sale, a second-hand car - it's not perfect, it is old. Someone offers their car in px, you accept and do the deal.

A few days later, they call you and say the car is fked, lots of lights on the dashboard. They don't want it, they want their money and their px back, and woe betide you if their px is not perfect - even though yours isn't, it's knackered. How would you feel?

For some, because they are traders, it is okay to beat up on them. To make them lose money. For everything to be stacked in your favour because you don't have the time, inclination or patience to work with the trader to fix it. Basically, you've changed your mind but want everything to be as it was when you bought it.

You've lost me there because you've muddled up your pronouns.

Traders balance risk by volume and price. Ie, they buy and sell many cars, so if one turns out to be a lemon and is jettisoned before retailing or is fixed and retailed at a loss, it is balanced by the many others which make a profit. And for price, they can buy at trade price and sell at retail price - something a private seller cannot do.

maz8062 said:

I get it, some traders are shysters, but I think this attitude of buying a product, using it, breaking it and handing it back for a 100% refund is what will kill this industry. Then we'll all lose.

If it were durable it wouldn't have broken. And the way the law is worded, it is assumed the fault was present at time of sale in the first 6 months. If the trader can prove it wasn't faulty, they don't have to replace/refund/repair. This is easier than it sounds, for example if the car were MoT'd just before sale, then that's strong evidence because another pair of (qualified and experienced) eyes have looked at the car. And if there's a documented PDI process, that can be used as evidence too.

[Prolex-UK]

maz8062 said:

Blue_star said:

Maz, are you the trader

Op, your worries should be proportionate to how much you swore at the guys. How many times did you use the f word? C word? T word? S? D? The other D?

Depending on answer Perhaps Maz is right to chuck some sugar in your petrol tank

Think about it. You're not a trader, you're a private seller. You advertise a car for sale, a second-hand car - it's not perfect, it is old. Someone offers their car in px, you accept and do the deal.

A few days later, they call you and say the car is fked, lots of lights on the dashboard. They don't want it, they want their money and their px back, and woe betide you if their px is not perfect - even though yours isn't, it's knackered. How would you feel?

For some, because they are traders, it is okay to beat up on them. To make them lose money. For everything to be stacked in your favour because you don't have the time, inclination or patience to work with the trader to fix it. Basically, you've changed your mind but want everything to be as it was when you bought it.

I get it, some traders are shysters, but I think this attitude of buying a product, using it, breaking it and handing it back for a 100% refund is what will kill this industry. Then we'll all lose.

Did you miss the bit where he said after 30 minutes.? ...that's hardly taking the pish

[UnfathomableBison]

maz8062 said:

Think about it. You're not a trader, you're a private seller. You advertise a car for sale, a second-hand car - it's not perfect, it is old. Someone offers their car in px, you accept and do the deal.

A few days later, they call you and say the car is fked, lots of lights on the dashboard. They don't want it, they want their money and their px back, and woe betide you if their px is not perfect - even though yours isn't, it's knackered. How would you feel?

For some, because they are traders, it is okay to beat up on them. To make them lose money. For everything to be stacked in your favour because you don't have the time, inclination or patience to work with the trader to fix it. Basically, you've changed your mind but want everything to be as it was when you bought it.

I get it, some traders are shysters, but I think this attitude of buying a product, using it, breaking it and handing it back for a 100% refund is what will kill this industry. Then we'll all lose.

Glad you felt safe enough in this space to rant away.

The dealer concealed faults at the point of sale and I reported the first two that appeared within half an hour of leaving the forecourt. Cold start the next day was even worse and after even more faults presented themselves, I felt within my right to dispute the “superb” condition description. The dealer’s wife told me I didn’t know what I was on about, told me to take a Volvo to a VW garage and then said “I don’t deal with your issues take it to the warranty company”.

They then completely made up a story saying my PX had been stripped for a cambelt change (it had one 12k miles ago), sent over a hand written invoice and used it as a ransom for me getting my PX back for a week. They backtracked on that yesterday saying no work had been done.

I enjoyed calling him a liar to his face every chance I could when we were swapping back today, all went smoothly and I sensed a bit of remorse. His wife was foul to deal with over the phone and by email, I’m glad she didn’t turn up.

[Sporky]

maz8062 said:

Think about it. You're not a trader, you're a private seller.

That's not what happened though, is it?

[mcpoot]

UnfathomableBison said:

maz8062 said:

Think about it. You're not a trader, you're a private seller. You advertise a car for sale, a second-hand car - it's not perfect, it is old. Someone offers their car in px, you accept and do the deal.

A few days later, they call you and say the car is fked, lots of lights on the dashboard. They don't want it, they want their money and their px back, and woe betide you if their px is not perfect - even though yours isn't, it's knackered. How would you feel?

For some, because they are traders, it is okay to beat up on them. To make them lose money. For everything to be stacked in your favour because you don't have the time, inclination or patience to work with the trader to fix it. Basically, you've changed your mind but want everything to be as it was when you bought it.

I get it, some traders are shysters, but I think this attitude of buying a product, using it, breaking it and handing it back for a 100% refund is what will kill this industry. Then we'll all lose.

Glad you felt safe enough in this space to rant away.

The dealer concealed faults at the point of sale and I reported the first two that appeared within half an hour of leaving the forecourt. Cold start the next day was even worse and after even more faults presented themselves, I felt within my right to dispute the superb condition description. The dealer s wife told me I didn t know what I was on about, told me to take a Volvo to a VW garage and then said I don t deal with your issues take it to the warranty company .

They then completely made up a story saying my PX had been stripped for a cambelt change (it had one 12k miles ago), sent over a hand written invoice and used it as a ransom for me getting my PX back for a week. They backtracked on that yesterday saying no work had been done.

I enjoyed calling him a liar to his face every chance I could when we were swapping back today, all went smoothly and I sensed a bit of remorse. His wife was foul to deal with over the phone and by email, I m glad she didn t turn up.

To be honest you're wasting your time trying to reason with Maz. He's from London you see and a bit special.

[Dog Biscuit]

Glad you got sorted OP

So, to finish off the tale, what were the 'serious faults' that became apparent?