Dealer upsold "ceramic coatings" on new cars
Discussion
I've long been sceptical of these upsold ceramic coatings on brand new cars from dealers. They don't employ proper "detailing" staff who carefully apply the coatings (and do the very careful prep work), they aren't going to be having the cars stored under cover for a couple of days for it to cure etc etc.
The reason for my post though is that about six weeks ago my parents collected their brand new Yaris Cross. They had paid about £300 for ceramic coating.
They popped round yesterday as even my dad, who has macular degeneration hence very poor eyesight could see that this alleged coating was doing nothing whatsoever. A quick check with the hosepipe confirmed - no water beading whatsoever anywhere except a tiny bit on one of the doors. Running my hand over the surface - it didn't feel in the least bit waxy or slick, and the roof certainly had no product in evidence at all.
I suspect that on delivery the car had some sort of spray applied to the bonnet and doors at best, whether a wax or ceramic spritz I don't know. Compared to my 12 year old C class and Mrs DSs 20 year old SLK which both have month old wax coatings and beaded off water perfectly, or my 9 year old SL with new ceramic that really beaded stuff off fast, the comparison was obvious - there is nothing on my mum and dad's car.
I'm really annoyed about a dealership ripping off a pair of 80 year olds. It's low.
Has anyone else had experience of this? I've got a proper "paint correction"/detailing guy coming round next week on an unrelated matter so I'll get my mum and dad to pop the car round and get an expert opinion, then I'll be ringing the dealer principal.
The reason for my post though is that about six weeks ago my parents collected their brand new Yaris Cross. They had paid about £300 for ceramic coating.
They popped round yesterday as even my dad, who has macular degeneration hence very poor eyesight could see that this alleged coating was doing nothing whatsoever. A quick check with the hosepipe confirmed - no water beading whatsoever anywhere except a tiny bit on one of the doors. Running my hand over the surface - it didn't feel in the least bit waxy or slick, and the roof certainly had no product in evidence at all.
I suspect that on delivery the car had some sort of spray applied to the bonnet and doors at best, whether a wax or ceramic spritz I don't know. Compared to my 12 year old C class and Mrs DSs 20 year old SLK which both have month old wax coatings and beaded off water perfectly, or my 9 year old SL with new ceramic that really beaded stuff off fast, the comparison was obvious - there is nothing on my mum and dad's car.
I'm really annoyed about a dealership ripping off a pair of 80 year olds. It's low.
Has anyone else had experience of this? I've got a proper "paint correction"/detailing guy coming round next week on an unrelated matter so I'll get my mum and dad to pop the car round and get an expert opinion, then I'll be ringing the dealer principal.
It is mostly snake oil.
Think about the £300 charge - it ends up being mostly commission - Valeter gets nowt as it's his job, salesman gets say £30, sales manager gets a cut, dealership gets a cut, snake oil salesman gets a cut etc etc.
OK, some protection is better than nothing, especially if you live in a flat without access to water or are plain lazy. If you clean your car every week/month then you don't need it. You would be better off spending £15 on a bottle of say, Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray which should give 6 months of protection and the bottle will last you a couple of years. Add on £12 for a bottle of Scotchguard from Amazon if you really want to be anal and do your interior.
I buy Autoglym Lifeshine (carbon/ceramic paint protector) in bulk (10 small bottles for £20) and it's about the only one I like out of GardX/Diamondbrite etc.
Think about the £300 charge - it ends up being mostly commission - Valeter gets nowt as it's his job, salesman gets say £30, sales manager gets a cut, dealership gets a cut, snake oil salesman gets a cut etc etc.
OK, some protection is better than nothing, especially if you live in a flat without access to water or are plain lazy. If you clean your car every week/month then you don't need it. You would be better off spending £15 on a bottle of say, Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray which should give 6 months of protection and the bottle will last you a couple of years. Add on £12 for a bottle of Scotchguard from Amazon if you really want to be anal and do your interior.
I buy Autoglym Lifeshine (carbon/ceramic paint protector) in bulk (10 small bottles for £20) and it's about the only one I like out of GardX/Diamondbrite etc.
The main dealer chucked in ceramic coating for free when I bought my M4. Skip forward a bit and i got it professionally detailed at a top end specialist and pretty much the first thing they said was that dealer-applied ceramic coatings weren't up to much. Whether they're a genuine rip-off or not would seem hard to prove either way. Hats off to the guys who did the detailing on my car though. When I went to pick it up it was under cover with studio lighting and when they took the cover off, I genuinely believe that the car presented better than new. In many ways that experience felt more special that actually getting it from the dealer where it was just out on the forecourt.
Snubs said:
The main dealer chucked in ceramic coating for free when I bought my M4. Skip forward a bit and i got it professionally detailed at a top end specialist and pretty much the first thing they said was that dealer-applied ceramic coatings weren't up to much. Whether they're a genuine rip-off or not would seem hard to prove either way. Hats off to the guys who did the detailing on my car though. When I went to pick it up it was under cover with studio lighting and when they took the cover off, I genuinely believe that the car presented better than new. In many ways that experience felt more special that actually getting it from the dealer where it was just out on the forecourt.
Yep - I just had my 9 year old "brilliant blue" SL done, and it looks nuts, and it's been stuck in the garage since the day it was done as the day after it started to pour / snow and I've not taken it out since. Can't wait to see it in sunlight.If it had no water beading on it at all, that's pretty poor and possibly means they've somehow made it less good than when it left the factory.
The water even beads on my wife's car for a week or so after it's had its occasional bucket and sponge wash with middle of Lidl's finest no brand "Wash'n'Wax"
I've never paid for any "paint protection" treatment they are trying to sell with a car, but have managed to get them to chuck it in as part of the deal a couple of times. It did have some improving effect on the last car I got, but no more than you'd get from giving the car a quick hand wax with something from Halfords after washing it. The "free" maintenance kit those treatments come with is probably more use than the treatment itself - not that a few microfibre cloths and some small bottles of wheel cleaner, bird lime remover, shampoo and cheap polish are worth very much though....
The water even beads on my wife's car for a week or so after it's had its occasional bucket and sponge wash with middle of Lidl's finest no brand "Wash'n'Wax"
I've never paid for any "paint protection" treatment they are trying to sell with a car, but have managed to get them to chuck it in as part of the deal a couple of times. It did have some improving effect on the last car I got, but no more than you'd get from giving the car a quick hand wax with something from Halfords after washing it. The "free" maintenance kit those treatments come with is probably more use than the treatment itself - not that a few microfibre cloths and some small bottles of wheel cleaner, bird lime remover, shampoo and cheap polish are worth very much though....
One franchised BMW dealer (not one I ended up buying from) insisted that the BMW paintwork warranty was only valid if if I maintained my car with their 'paint protection kit' at £750 for 3 years of cover.
It was just the usual fake FCA-mandated sales crap that they have to go through so you can't go away saying they didn't offer you the chance to purchase dog-wee / car-park-ding / tree-sap / alloy-corrosion / sun-damage / tyre-repair / more-expensive-than-BMW-but-must-by-now-extended-warranty / GAP / RTI add-ons.
Yes, I know the FCA have rules on insurance products (if they're offered), but the salesmen always claim every piece of snake oil insurance they're offering is part of that requirement - and part of that requirement is that they must not mislead customers, must not pressure customers, and must act honestly and responsibly - which they seem to be quite happy to ignore.
I also realise the 'waiver' that they ask you to sign when declining their insurance products is not a regulatory requirement, just a way to show the sales manager that they tried and failed to sell some lucrative add-ons.
It was just the usual fake FCA-mandated sales crap that they have to go through so you can't go away saying they didn't offer you the chance to purchase dog-wee / car-park-ding / tree-sap / alloy-corrosion / sun-damage / tyre-repair / more-expensive-than-BMW-but-must-by-now-extended-warranty / GAP / RTI add-ons.
Yes, I know the FCA have rules on insurance products (if they're offered), but the salesmen always claim every piece of snake oil insurance they're offering is part of that requirement - and part of that requirement is that they must not mislead customers, must not pressure customers, and must act honestly and responsibly - which they seem to be quite happy to ignore.
I also realise the 'waiver' that they ask you to sign when declining their insurance products is not a regulatory requirement, just a way to show the sales manager that they tried and failed to sell some lucrative add-ons.
Edited by mmm-five on Friday 27th March 12:14
When I went to collect and pay for our CX5, despite agreeing a price at the prior meeting and paying a deposit, I was grilled for an hour on all the extras. Additional warranty and Gard X were the main ones, and apparently I was "stupid" for not having the warranty, but the Gard X was getting the proper hard sell.
Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I have won a few concours awards, so I can clean and polish my own car, thanks. They ended up adding £250 to the price for my part ex to cover the Gard X just to get the deal through.
Besides giving me the little bag of polish etc, I really could not see what they done for the money. The inside (which had the leather treatment) wasn't particularly clean, and the outside hadn't been cleaned since the test drive. There was no beading of water on the bodywork and the bird poop on the sun roof (evident during the rest drive) was properly baked on.
I am a bit ott with my car cleaning, but it took a good couple of weeks of evenings and weekends to get the car up to my standards. It wasn't a particularly cheap car, at £20k, but I have paid less (and not had any special snake oil added) and had cars presented better to me.
Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I have won a few concours awards, so I can clean and polish my own car, thanks. They ended up adding £250 to the price for my part ex to cover the Gard X just to get the deal through.
Besides giving me the little bag of polish etc, I really could not see what they done for the money. The inside (which had the leather treatment) wasn't particularly clean, and the outside hadn't been cleaned since the test drive. There was no beading of water on the bodywork and the bird poop on the sun roof (evident during the rest drive) was properly baked on.
I am a bit ott with my car cleaning, but it took a good couple of weeks of evenings and weekends to get the car up to my standards. It wasn't a particularly cheap car, at £20k, but I have paid less (and not had any special snake oil added) and had cars presented better to me.
One of my favourite places to buy cars for the family is Car Giant in London - the warts and all minimal prep is better and cheaper than hidden stuff at other dealers.
As soon as you say you want to buy a car, they move straight onto the hard sell of GardX. I immediately say don't bother with GardX but they will insist on pouring some coffee onto an untreated cloth and one on a GardX protected cloth. They look at me as though what they do is the most wonderful thing in the Universe.
Think about it. The average time between buying a car there and driving it off is 2 hours. How does a valeter wash the car, apply GardX inside and out in that time when there are 101 other people buying cars?
As soon as you say you want to buy a car, they move straight onto the hard sell of GardX. I immediately say don't bother with GardX but they will insist on pouring some coffee onto an untreated cloth and one on a GardX protected cloth. They look at me as though what they do is the most wonderful thing in the Universe.
Think about it. The average time between buying a car there and driving it off is 2 hours. How does a valeter wash the car, apply GardX inside and out in that time when there are 101 other people buying cars?
vikingaero said:
One of my favourite places to buy cars for the family is Car Giant in London - the warts and all minimal prep is better and cheaper than hidden stuff at other dealers.
As soon as you say you want to buy a car, they move straight onto the hard sell of GardX. I immediately say don't bother with GardX but they will insist on pouring some coffee onto an untreated cloth and one on a GardX protected cloth. They look at me as though what they do is the most wonderful thing in the Universe.
Think about it. The average time between buying a car there and driving it off is 2 hours. How does a valeter wash the car, apply GardX inside and out in that time when there are 101 other people buying cars?
Only takes 5 seconds to put a Gard X sticker on the windscreen As soon as you say you want to buy a car, they move straight onto the hard sell of GardX. I immediately say don't bother with GardX but they will insist on pouring some coffee onto an untreated cloth and one on a GardX protected cloth. They look at me as though what they do is the most wonderful thing in the Universe.
Think about it. The average time between buying a car there and driving it off is 2 hours. How does a valeter wash the car, apply GardX inside and out in that time when there are 101 other people buying cars?
Whenever salesmen start trying to upsell the paint protection I instantly think of jerry lundegaard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
I remember when I was buying the GT86 ( with a big discount) that they tried the hard sell of SupaGuard or some such paint protection crap.
I had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
I had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
sawman said:
Whenever salesmen start trying to upsell the paint protection I instantly think of jerry lundegaard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
One of my all time favourite films and this does ring true of some dealers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
I feel sorry for the OP and his parents as I fear this was perhaps how they may have been treated.
sawman said:
Whenever salesmen start trying to upsell the paint protection I instantly think of jerry lundegaard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
we watched that again last week, such a good film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
Andy86GT said:
I remember when I was buying the GT86 ( with a big discount) that they tried the hard sell of SupaGuard or some such paint protection crap.
I had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
I don't just not want it and not want to pay for it, I actively don't want their hamfisted fI had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
king about with such stuff anywhere near my car.If I'm buying a car, bringing it for a "health check", getting it serviced, getting it MOT'd, I do not want you even washing it. Do what I asked and nothing else.
It is not in any way a benefit or a positive thing for them to do otherwise.
InitialDave said:
Andy86GT said:
I remember when I was buying the GT86 ( with a big discount) that they tried the hard sell of SupaGuard or some such paint protection crap.
I had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
I don't just not want it and not want to pay for it, I actively don't want their hamfisted fI had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
king about with such stuff anywhere near my car.If I'm buying a car, bringing it for a "health check", getting it serviced, getting it MOT'd, I do not want you even washing it. Do what I asked and nothing else.
It is not in any way a benefit or a positive thing for them to do otherwise.
If they ever wash one of my cars I'd make the Dealer Principal physically re-apply the 25 layers of ceramic spray I apply each year!
vikingaero said:
It is mostly snake oil.
Think about the £300 charge - it ends up being mostly commission - Valeter gets nowt as it's his job, salesman gets say £30, sales manager gets a cut, dealership gets a cut, snake oil salesman gets a cut etc etc.
OK, some protection is better than nothing, especially if you live in a flat without access to water or are plain lazy. If you clean your car every week/month then you don't need it. You would be better off spending £15 on a bottle of say, Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray which should give 6 months of protection and the bottle will last you a couple of years. Add on £12 for a bottle of Scotchguard from Amazon if you really want to be anal and do your interior.
I buy Autoglym Lifeshine (carbon/ceramic paint protector) in bulk (10 small bottles for £20) and it's about the only one I like out of GardX/Diamondbrite etc.
I've just bought a bottle of the Turtle Wax Ceramic Spray as you've suggested. I assume it's decent for the money. Think about the £300 charge - it ends up being mostly commission - Valeter gets nowt as it's his job, salesman gets say £30, sales manager gets a cut, dealership gets a cut, snake oil salesman gets a cut etc etc.
OK, some protection is better than nothing, especially if you live in a flat without access to water or are plain lazy. If you clean your car every week/month then you don't need it. You would be better off spending £15 on a bottle of say, Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray which should give 6 months of protection and the bottle will last you a couple of years. Add on £12 for a bottle of Scotchguard from Amazon if you really want to be anal and do your interior.
I buy Autoglym Lifeshine (carbon/ceramic paint protector) in bulk (10 small bottles for £20) and it's about the only one I like out of GardX/Diamondbrite etc.
vikingaero said:
InitialDave said:
Andy86GT said:
I remember when I was buying the GT86 ( with a big discount) that they tried the hard sell of SupaGuard or some such paint protection crap.
I had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
I don't just not want it and not want to pay for it, I actively don't want their hamfisted fI had to say I didn't want it about 5 times before the sales guy gave up.
Anyway, when I collected the car (at the agreed price), there was the SupaGuard sticker on the windscreen and a pouch with a sample of some 'special' cleaner and a microfiber cloth.
Not sure if they actually applied the stuff or not as I couldn't tell any difference.
king about with such stuff anywhere near my car.If I'm buying a car, bringing it for a "health check", getting it serviced, getting it MOT'd, I do not want you even washing it. Do what I asked and nothing else.
It is not in any way a benefit or a positive thing for them to do otherwise.
If they ever wash one of my cars I'd make the Dealer Principal physically re-apply the 25 layers of ceramic spray I apply each year!
https://www.carboncollective.com/do-not-wash-pvc-h...
KungFuPanda said:
I've just bought a bottle of the Turtle Wax Ceramic Spray as you've suggested. I assume it's decent for the money.
It's excellent. I've got posh stuff, but I'm not sure it's much better than the TW Ceramic spray.You only need a tiny amount, you spread it over the panel rather than rub it in and don't let it dry for too long (30 seconds max?).
Half a bonnet is about the largest area to do at a time before rubbing it off with a clean microfibre. If it seems hard to buff off then you're using too much. 3 trigger pulls is easily enough for an average bonnet IME.
If I do a second coat then I'm still getting good beading 6 months later after giving it a wash.
Back on topic, dealers don't have a clue what they are doing... and that assumes they've actually done it in the first place. Virtually impossible to prove unfortunately.
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