Should I replace my Mk7 Fiesta ST180 with FK8/FL5 Type R?
Discussion
I have a dilemma. Should I sell my mint 2014 Fiesta ST180 on 79,500 miles and buy a FK8 or FL5 type R, or keep the Fiesta which I love dearly due to the enhancements I have performed? I am particularly interested in whether the changes I have made below bring the feeling and experience of driving closer to the Type R? I am not interested in lots of horsepower, handling is my number one priority and my Fiesta is truly sublime on A and B roads. I couldn't ask for more really. I also own a six cylinder BMW with the legendary N52 engine, and my wife has a G21 touring (330i, 4 Cyl turbo petrol), which ticks the modern car box/family duties.
The Fiesta is my toy to tinker and enjoy the thrill of driving! I bought the Fiesta in completely standard form about 3 years ago. All the below has been carried out in my ownership.
Remap associated hardware and software:
-Airtec Stage 1 Intercooler
-Scorpion 3inch resonated cat back exhaust
-ITG induction kit
-Mishimoto induction hose
-GFB diverter valve
-Sound symposer delete
-Custom TRS stage 1+ remap with dyno proven power of 235bhp. Remap carried out by
H-Sport Performance, Bath.
Service items:
-Cambelt, water pump, crank pulley bolt and Ford Coolant (all work carried out using genuine
Ford parts by H-Sport Performance, Bath)
-Genuine Ford Spark plugs gapped to 0.65mm and changed every 10k
-Serviced every 6-10k using Millers LSPI 5W30 fully synthetic oil and genuine Ford oil filter
Gearbox:
-Quickshifter
-Prosport weighted gear knob
-Motul Gear 300 gearbox fluid
-Collins Roll Restrictor
Handling and traction:
-Whiteline 22mm fixed Anti-roll bar (rear)
-KW V3 coilovers with new Ford front top mounts
-Powerflex rear beam bushes
-Full geo alignment and coilover setup with fast road settings carried out by suspension
secrets
-Summit 4-point front lower brace
Brakes:
-Genuine Ford Discs and Pads all round
-RBF660 brake fluid
-Hel braided brake lines at front and rear
-Frentech slider pins for all calipers
Tyres and Wheels:
-Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 Tyres
-17-inch Ford Performance Alloys
Other bits:
-Acceleration pedal spacer raises the pedal to allow easier heel and toeing.
The plan if I keep the car is to fit an an LSD.
I asked chatGPT about the above, and the summarised answer was:
"You’re already much closer to Type R territory than most people realise. With KW V3s, proper geo, rear ARB, bushes and good tyres, your Fiesta has addressed most of its factory weaknesses and will feel more adjustable and playful than an FK8/FL5. The main thing you’re missing is an LSD — that’s what gives the Type R its front-end bite and ability to deploy power cleanly, especially in the wet. Fit a Quaife ATB and dial in slightly more aggressive front camber, and you’ll gain a big jump in traction and confidence, likely closing 90% of the real-world handling gap. At that point, the decision becomes less about capability and more about whether you want a raw, engaging lightweight (Fiesta) or a more planted, precise but less playful package (Type R)."
The Fiesta is my toy to tinker and enjoy the thrill of driving! I bought the Fiesta in completely standard form about 3 years ago. All the below has been carried out in my ownership.
Remap associated hardware and software:
-Airtec Stage 1 Intercooler
-Scorpion 3inch resonated cat back exhaust
-ITG induction kit
-Mishimoto induction hose
-GFB diverter valve
-Sound symposer delete
-Custom TRS stage 1+ remap with dyno proven power of 235bhp. Remap carried out by
H-Sport Performance, Bath.
Service items:
-Cambelt, water pump, crank pulley bolt and Ford Coolant (all work carried out using genuine
Ford parts by H-Sport Performance, Bath)
-Genuine Ford Spark plugs gapped to 0.65mm and changed every 10k
-Serviced every 6-10k using Millers LSPI 5W30 fully synthetic oil and genuine Ford oil filter
Gearbox:
-Quickshifter
-Prosport weighted gear knob
-Motul Gear 300 gearbox fluid
-Collins Roll Restrictor
Handling and traction:
-Whiteline 22mm fixed Anti-roll bar (rear)
-KW V3 coilovers with new Ford front top mounts
-Powerflex rear beam bushes
-Full geo alignment and coilover setup with fast road settings carried out by suspension
secrets
-Summit 4-point front lower brace
Brakes:
-Genuine Ford Discs and Pads all round
-RBF660 brake fluid
-Hel braided brake lines at front and rear
-Frentech slider pins for all calipers
Tyres and Wheels:
-Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 Tyres
-17-inch Ford Performance Alloys
Other bits:
-Acceleration pedal spacer raises the pedal to allow easier heel and toeing.
The plan if I keep the car is to fit an an LSD.
I asked chatGPT about the above, and the summarised answer was:
"You’re already much closer to Type R territory than most people realise. With KW V3s, proper geo, rear ARB, bushes and good tyres, your Fiesta has addressed most of its factory weaknesses and will feel more adjustable and playful than an FK8/FL5. The main thing you’re missing is an LSD — that’s what gives the Type R its front-end bite and ability to deploy power cleanly, especially in the wet. Fit a Quaife ATB and dial in slightly more aggressive front camber, and you’ll gain a big jump in traction and confidence, likely closing 90% of the real-world handling gap. At that point, the decision becomes less about capability and more about whether you want a raw, engaging lightweight (Fiesta) or a more planted, precise but less playful package (Type R)."
For what you will get back on the Fiesta I would mothball it as you will likely be inundated with “3 grand cash, a PS5 and a bag of weed” knobheads.
Sounds like it’s too good, and I remember your Readers Rides posts to let it go unless it’s someone who appreciates what’s been done. A lot expect anything modified for nothing and some won’t entertain it, these cars prices are at their likely lowest point. People will value yours as any other 2014 scruffy one needing tyres, brakes and god knows what, cost vs value.
Drive the Honda and if it grabs you, and you think you won’t miss the fiesta, do it but imagine the regret folk have when they sell one for say an M140i, realise it’s much faster but it’s otherwise a bit hopeless out of the box, regret it and buy another ST, happens quite a bit, but the Honda will be better than the BMW I expect.
Sounds like it’s too good, and I remember your Readers Rides posts to let it go unless it’s someone who appreciates what’s been done. A lot expect anything modified for nothing and some won’t entertain it, these cars prices are at their likely lowest point. People will value yours as any other 2014 scruffy one needing tyres, brakes and god knows what, cost vs value.
Drive the Honda and if it grabs you, and you think you won’t miss the fiesta, do it but imagine the regret folk have when they sell one for say an M140i, realise it’s much faster but it’s otherwise a bit hopeless out of the box, regret it and buy another ST, happens quite a bit, but the Honda will be better than the BMW I expect.
Fl5 owner here and former Fiesta owner too. If you like blasting down narrow roads remember the Type R is a lot bigger than a Fiesta.
The FL5 is widely considered to be the best fwd hot hatch ever (other opinions are available) and will be a future classic so although expensive, it's a good investment. They're also no longer in sale.
The FL5 is widely considered to be the best fwd hot hatch ever (other opinions are available) and will be a future classic so although expensive, it's a good investment. They're also no longer in sale.
I had a standard ST3 66 plate (ST200 suspension) from 2019 - 2022, and moved to a FK8 in 2023. The FK8 was designed to replace both the ST and an E92 M3. The theory being it would be a mid way house between the two. IMO the FK8 is much better than both, of course the engine can't replace the S65 of the M3 but it's much more usable and I really like the CTR's engine, it's far more revvy than any modern turbo charged engine has a right to be.
They're very different cars, the ST seemingly pivoting around the centre of the car (you'll know exactly what I mean), the CTR being very stable and not playful in the same way. It's also ridiculously comfortable, a major complaint on the ST for me.
As above though it's a big car, depends where you live, living rurally I find it can be a PITA.
They're very different cars, the ST seemingly pivoting around the centre of the car (you'll know exactly what I mean), the CTR being very stable and not playful in the same way. It's also ridiculously comfortable, a major complaint on the ST for me.
As above though it's a big car, depends where you live, living rurally I find it can be a PITA.
Edited by acme on Friday 10th April 09:33
J4CKO said:
For what you will get back on the Fiesta I would mothball it as you will likely be inundated with 3 grand cash, a PS5 and a bag of weed knobheads.
Sounds like it s too good, and I remember your Readers Rides posts to let it go unless it s someone who appreciates what s been done. A lot expect anything modified for nothing and some won t entertain it, these cars prices are at their likely lowest point. People will value yours as any other 2014 scruffy one needing tyres, brakes and god knows what, cost vs value.
Drive the Honda and if it grabs you, and you think you won t miss the fiesta, do it but imagine the regret folk have when they sell one for say an M140i, realise it s much faster but it s otherwise a bit hopeless out of the box, regret it and buy another ST, happens quite a bit, but the Honda will be better than the BMW I expect.
Yes, looking on Autotrader at the private sellers, most of them look neglected and with very little information on whether common Fiesta related things have been addressed during their ownership. With all the extra bits on mine, it would be a bit galling to have to price it in comparison to these other poor examples, even though I know modifications per se do not increase market value very much. Sounds like it s too good, and I remember your Readers Rides posts to let it go unless it s someone who appreciates what s been done. A lot expect anything modified for nothing and some won t entertain it, these cars prices are at their likely lowest point. People will value yours as any other 2014 scruffy one needing tyres, brakes and god knows what, cost vs value.
Drive the Honda and if it grabs you, and you think you won t miss the fiesta, do it but imagine the regret folk have when they sell one for say an M140i, realise it s much faster but it s otherwise a bit hopeless out of the box, regret it and buy another ST, happens quite a bit, but the Honda will be better than the BMW I expect.
Also, the fact that I am even questioning the move away from Fiesta, shows my fondness for the car. It is definitely under my skin. A week ago I wasn't even thinking of selling it, but the wife put the seed in my head, and then also agreed that it would be cool to have the Type R.
BlueJazz said:
Fl5 owner here and former Fiesta owner too. If you like blasting down narrow roads remember the Type R is a lot bigger than a Fiesta.
The FL5 is widely considered to be the best fwd hot hatch ever (other opinions are available) and will be a future classic so although expensive, it's a good investment. They're also no longer in sale.
The FL5 is widely considered to be the best fwd hot hatch ever (other opinions are available) and will be a future classic so although expensive, it's a good investment. They're also no longer in sale.
acme said:
I had a standar ST3 66 plate (ST200 suspension) from 2019 - 2022, and moved to a FK8 in 2023. The FK8 was designed to replace both the ST and an E92 M3. The theory being it would be a mid way house between the two. IMO the FK8 is much better than both, of course the engine can't replace the S65 of the M3 but it's much more usable and I really like the CTR's engine, it's far more revvy than any modern turbo charged engine has a right to be.
They're very different cars, the ST seemingly pivoting around the centre of the car (you'll know exactly what I mean), the CTR being very stable and not playful in the same way. It's also ridiculously comfortable, a major complaint on the ST for me.
As above though it's a big car, depends where you live, living rurally I find it can be a PITA.
Thanks both for your thoughts. The issue is that if the question was should I go from a bone-stock ST180 to a Type R, the answer would probably be Type R. I acknowledge that it is regarded as the best FWD car of all time. However, I think the gulf between the two cars is somewhat closed by me having KW V3's which have been properly setup and significantly improve ride quality, chassis bracing front and rear, and is remapped to respectable power for it's weight and size. With a planned addition of an LSD to the ST, I think that gulf will close further. So this is the thing, with the improvements made to the ST, I might swap to the Type R and not necessarily feel a night and day difference, and as J4CkO says, may even regret getting rid of the ST.They're very different cars, the ST seemingly pivoting around the centre of the car (you'll know exactly what I mean), the CTR being very stable and not playful in the same way. It's also ridiculously comfortable, a major complaint on the ST for me.
As above though it's a big car, depends where you live, living rurally I find it can be a PITA.
There is the question that of the two, the Type R looks very nice, does not have the chav image of the ST, and perhaps feels more premium due to it being newer and pricier; but then those things don't bother me. I live in North Wales, so great roads are on my doorstep. The B-roads here are narrow and challenging, and the small size of the ST really suits them. Having said that, I have no issue hurling the E90 3 series around those same roads, so would get used to the size difference.
This might be a weird way to look at it, but do you enjoy the process of modifying a car? I tend to keep my cars around 4 years... and I do modify quite excessively, fair play quite a bit purely on looks, but on performance and handling too.
But I have a rule. That I don't spend any more money on the car after the 'halfway' period of owning it. So then, say, I'll make it the car I want for 2 years, and then enjoy it for a further 2 years, before starting the process again! I do really enjoy that, although of course, it's pretty expensive hobby.
My question to you, if any of the above makes sense, would be, when did you get it to the state it's in now? I've you've literally only just finished getting it there, then no way I'd want to move on yet, even for kind of just enjoying your investment reasons, making it worth it! If you finished it years ago, then yeah maybe move on and start again.
I realise that's a very personal way of looking at things and may not apply to anyone else!
But I have a rule. That I don't spend any more money on the car after the 'halfway' period of owning it. So then, say, I'll make it the car I want for 2 years, and then enjoy it for a further 2 years, before starting the process again! I do really enjoy that, although of course, it's pretty expensive hobby.
My question to you, if any of the above makes sense, would be, when did you get it to the state it's in now? I've you've literally only just finished getting it there, then no way I'd want to move on yet, even for kind of just enjoying your investment reasons, making it worth it! If you finished it years ago, then yeah maybe move on and start again.
I realise that's a very personal way of looking at things and may not apply to anyone else!
In addition to the fact you ve modded it is the obvious one that they re such different cars, in many respects they re not comparable, not least the CTR is two classes bigger in reality.
Again obvious but I d suggest driving one, the FK8 is one of the few cars I ve tested that truly blew me away, it was everything I’d read about. If you read Evo John Barker is a big fan and I ve been reading his stuff for 20+ years. And therefore the FL5 is another 10% seemingly.
I’m assuming like you given your username I rode bikes (last one a gixer) so a cars performance isn t that important to me, but the control weights, gear change, driving position, seats are superb and can be enjoyed in every journey.
For me the ST was a great hot hatch, but not very good at being just a car, the FK8 does both. Assuming you can get on board with the looks that is! And despite my concerns it doesn’t get much attention.
Again obvious but I d suggest driving one, the FK8 is one of the few cars I ve tested that truly blew me away, it was everything I’d read about. If you read Evo John Barker is a big fan and I ve been reading his stuff for 20+ years. And therefore the FL5 is another 10% seemingly.
I’m assuming like you given your username I rode bikes (last one a gixer) so a cars performance isn t that important to me, but the control weights, gear change, driving position, seats are superb and can be enjoyed in every journey.
For me the ST was a great hot hatch, but not very good at being just a car, the FK8 does both. Assuming you can get on board with the looks that is! And despite my concerns it doesn’t get much attention.
Edited by acme on Friday 10th April 09:33
Edited by acme on Friday 10th April 09:37
Edited by acme on Friday 10th April 09:39
Thanks for the further replies.
Yes, I’ve owned a K5 GSXR 1000 for the last 13 years (and a K1 600 before that). The K5 is widely regarded as one of the best sports bikes ever made, and I do see some parallels with cars like the Fiesta ST and Type R in terms of how highly they’re thought of. On the same North Wales roads I ride the bike on, the Fiesta actually comes surprisingly close in terms of exhilaration and sense of purpose. Even in stock form, one of my first impressions was how it could be flicked into corners with a similar sense of agility.
I completely agree that out of the box the Civic Type R is a much better car than a stock Fiesta, and I don’t doubt I’d be very impressed with one. But the crux of this discussion is that I’m not comparing a standard ST to a Type R — this is a Fiesta with significant chassis and handling upgrades, which in my opinion puts it much closer than most would expect. The KW V3s and fast road setup alone transformed the car, and it now feels fundamentally different to stock. The chassis bracing has further sharpened things up, to the point where I think I’d now find a standard Fiesta slightly underwhelming.
Importantly, I haven’t yet fitted an LSD, which I suspect is the single biggest missing piece and something that should bring it even closer again to the Type R’s front-end behaviour.
Taking all of that into account, along with its size, the Fiesta feels perfectly suited to Welsh B-roads and still very capable on A-roads. The Type R, while incredibly capable, is a larger car and I suspect would feel a bit more cumbersome on tighter roads, even if it maintains superior grip, stability and composure — perhaps at the expense of some of the Fiesta’s playfulness.
I know the Fiesta sits a few classes below the Type R and they wouldn’t normally be compared directly, but in this context I do think it makes for an interesting discussion.
The Type R is clearly an excellent car, and better than a stock Fiesta — but the real question for me is whether it’s actually better than the car I have now.
Yes, I’ve owned a K5 GSXR 1000 for the last 13 years (and a K1 600 before that). The K5 is widely regarded as one of the best sports bikes ever made, and I do see some parallels with cars like the Fiesta ST and Type R in terms of how highly they’re thought of. On the same North Wales roads I ride the bike on, the Fiesta actually comes surprisingly close in terms of exhilaration and sense of purpose. Even in stock form, one of my first impressions was how it could be flicked into corners with a similar sense of agility.
I completely agree that out of the box the Civic Type R is a much better car than a stock Fiesta, and I don’t doubt I’d be very impressed with one. But the crux of this discussion is that I’m not comparing a standard ST to a Type R — this is a Fiesta with significant chassis and handling upgrades, which in my opinion puts it much closer than most would expect. The KW V3s and fast road setup alone transformed the car, and it now feels fundamentally different to stock. The chassis bracing has further sharpened things up, to the point where I think I’d now find a standard Fiesta slightly underwhelming.
Importantly, I haven’t yet fitted an LSD, which I suspect is the single biggest missing piece and something that should bring it even closer again to the Type R’s front-end behaviour.
Taking all of that into account, along with its size, the Fiesta feels perfectly suited to Welsh B-roads and still very capable on A-roads. The Type R, while incredibly capable, is a larger car and I suspect would feel a bit more cumbersome on tighter roads, even if it maintains superior grip, stability and composure — perhaps at the expense of some of the Fiesta’s playfulness.
I know the Fiesta sits a few classes below the Type R and they wouldn’t normally be compared directly, but in this context I do think it makes for an interesting discussion.
CrippsCorner said:
This might be a weird way to look at it, but do you enjoy the process of modifying a car? I tend to keep my cars around 4 years... and I do modify quite excessively, fair play quite a bit purely on looks, but on performance and handling too.
But I have a rule. That I don't spend any more money on the car after the 'halfway' period of owning it. So then, say, I'll make it the car I want for 2 years, and then enjoy it for a further 2 years, before starting the process again! I do really enjoy that, although of course, it's pretty expensive hobby.
My question to you, if any of the above makes sense, would be, when did you get it to the state it's in now? I've you've literally only just finished getting it there, then no way I'd want to move on yet, even for kind of just enjoying your investment reasons, making it worth it! If you finished it years ago, then yeah maybe move on and start again.
I realise that's a very personal way of looking at things and may not apply to anyone else!
I think this is a really good point. I’ve genuinely enjoyed the process of modifying the car and learned a lot along the way. I’d say I’m about 90% there now, and with the LSD likely to make a significant difference, it does feel like the wrong time to stop. There’s a strong argument that I could end up with all the car I actually need.But I have a rule. That I don't spend any more money on the car after the 'halfway' period of owning it. So then, say, I'll make it the car I want for 2 years, and then enjoy it for a further 2 years, before starting the process again! I do really enjoy that, although of course, it's pretty expensive hobby.
My question to you, if any of the above makes sense, would be, when did you get it to the state it's in now? I've you've literally only just finished getting it there, then no way I'd want to move on yet, even for kind of just enjoying your investment reasons, making it worth it! If you finished it years ago, then yeah maybe move on and start again.
I realise that's a very personal way of looking at things and may not apply to anyone else!
The Type R is clearly an excellent car, and better than a stock Fiesta — but the real question for me is whether it’s actually better than the car I have now.
AmirGSXR said:
I think this is a really good point. I ve genuinely enjoyed the process of modifying the car and learned a lot along the way. I d say I m about 90% there now, and with the LSD likely to make a significant difference, it does feel like the wrong time to stop. There s a strong argument that I could end up with all the car I actually need.
The Type R is clearly an excellent car, and better than a stock Fiesta but the real question for me is whether it s actually better than the car I have now.
Personally I feel you're to far down the road to not put the LSD in & carry on enjoying the Fiesta The Type R is clearly an excellent car, and better than a stock Fiesta but the real question for me is whether it s actually better than the car I have now.
The Civic is a cracker but your current car sounds like it's the one that suits YOUR needs.
The Civics are good cars to be sure, but at the end of the day, it's still just a turbo 4-pot FWD car, only bigger and heavier. A lot of money for more of the same.
If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
I may be able to offer you a view based on having owned all the cars.
I have had x2 Fiesta Mk7 ST - amazing cars. Also owned an FK8, a Yaris GR and now I have an FL5.
The Fiesta in my view is just incredible value for money but you are comparing it with absolute hot hatch greats.
The Civics corner flat, have incredible gearboxes and are really quick once rolling - also the brakes are great with minimal investment in braided lines and fluid.
The fk8 has more of a Vtec feel than fl5. The FL5 is a better package but prob not worth the extra and I say that as a very happy FL5 owner.
If I didnt need the space, I do think the Yaris is a more special car overall - but it only comes alive when you really drive it.
The other car i had and loved was the Megane 300 Trophy Cup. Maybe a nice option and good vfm
Honestly you can't go wrong with the civic and are a smart upgrade but if you don't need the space get a Yaris.
I have had x2 Fiesta Mk7 ST - amazing cars. Also owned an FK8, a Yaris GR and now I have an FL5.
The Fiesta in my view is just incredible value for money but you are comparing it with absolute hot hatch greats.
The Civics corner flat, have incredible gearboxes and are really quick once rolling - also the brakes are great with minimal investment in braided lines and fluid.
The fk8 has more of a Vtec feel than fl5. The FL5 is a better package but prob not worth the extra and I say that as a very happy FL5 owner.
If I didnt need the space, I do think the Yaris is a more special car overall - but it only comes alive when you really drive it.
The other car i had and loved was the Megane 300 Trophy Cup. Maybe a nice option and good vfm
Honestly you can't go wrong with the civic and are a smart upgrade but if you don't need the space get a Yaris.
Edited by Francis2020 on Saturday 11th April 22:46
I'm surprised there are a small number of FK2's that are still priced more than similar miled FK5's, is this just a scene thing?
I'd keep your Fiesta, I enjoy your thread on it, one word of caution tho, what weight will an LSD add and will that offset your high expectations it will take it from excellent to, what seems like another level. It's not a cheap mod, you won't be seeing most of your additional expenses back anyway, so have you driven one with it done before committing?
It would suck for you to think it would make that much of a difference only for it to.... Not. If you know what I mean.
I'd keep your Fiesta, I enjoy your thread on it, one word of caution tho, what weight will an LSD add and will that offset your high expectations it will take it from excellent to, what seems like another level. It's not a cheap mod, you won't be seeing most of your additional expenses back anyway, so have you driven one with it done before committing?
It would suck for you to think it would make that much of a difference only for it to.... Not. If you know what I mean.
TameRacingDriver said:
The Civics are good cars to be sure, but at the end of the day, it's still just a turbo 4-pot FWD car, only bigger and heavier. A lot of money for more of the same.
If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
This would be my thought.If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
Hot hatches are for people who need one car to do it all - carrying passengers / luggage, and having fun.
If you already have two 3-series in the household, surely the third fun car can be something designed from scratch to be fun, rather than an adapted hatchback?
If I were you I'd start by asking 'could I replace the Fiesta with an Elise or Caterham?', and then step back towards heavier, more practical cars from there based on your use-case, rather than starting out from a point of compromise.
samoht said:
TameRacingDriver said:
The Civics are good cars to be sure, but at the end of the day, it's still just a turbo 4-pot FWD car, only bigger and heavier. A lot of money for more of the same.
If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
This would be my thought.If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
Hot hatches are for people who need one car to do it all - carrying passengers / luggage, and having fun.
If you already have two 3-series in the household, surely the third fun car can be something designed from scratch to be fun, rather than an adapted hatchback?
If I were you I'd start by asking 'could I replace the Fiesta with an Elise or Caterham?', and then step back towards heavier, more practical cars from there based on your use-case, rather than starting out from a point of compromise.
However, what's the best RWD or AWD sports car is not universally agreed on and would certainly cost much, much more.
Therefore should you own the best in one category of car (FWD) or something which is highly unlikely to be the best in the other drive-train categories, given budget contraints?
BlueJazz said:
samoht said:
TameRacingDriver said:
The Civics are good cars to be sure, but at the end of the day, it's still just a turbo 4-pot FWD car, only bigger and heavier. A lot of money for more of the same.
If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
This would be my thought.If you really value handling then look for a RWD sports car, MX5, Elise, MR2, Porsche, S2000 etc. Having gone from a Mini JCW to an MX5 ND2, and having done similar swaps to and fro over the the years, sports cars are clearly a better experience for me, if you can handle the 2 seat aspect.
Hot hatches are for people who need one car to do it all - carrying passengers / luggage, and having fun.
If you already have two 3-series in the household, surely the third fun car can be something designed from scratch to be fun, rather than an adapted hatchback?
If I were you I'd start by asking 'could I replace the Fiesta with an Elise or Caterham?', and then step back towards heavier, more practical cars from there based on your use-case, rather than starting out from a point of compromise.
However, what's the best RWD or AWD sports car is not universally agreed on and would certainly cost much, much more.
Therefore should you own the best in one category of car (FWD) or something which is highly unlikely to be the best in the other drive-train categories, given budget contraints?
Seriously though, while I do love the Civics, and they are nice cars, it's still the same overall formula as countless other hot hatches including the OPs Fiesta.
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