High mileage PHEV issues
Discussion
Easternlight said:
Buy a Lexus or Toyota.
Plenty of Toyota taxis about with 100's thousand miles on them.
Lexus will health check any of their cars and if they pass will give you a 10 year warranty.
Had the pleasure of a ride in a Prius taxi with 410000 miles on it the other day. Interior had seen better days but it seemed to be driving ok.Plenty of Toyota taxis about with 100's thousand miles on them.
Lexus will health check any of their cars and if they pass will give you a 10 year warranty.
Pickle_Rick said:
The engine and gearbox is far more likely to be a failure point than the battery.
You'd expect 5000+ cycles from a modern kwh nmc battery, 8000+ if LFP. If you manage just 2 miles per kwh, then that's 200,000 miles just from the battery alone.
5000 cycles times 20 miles electric range would mean the battery was shagged at 100k miles.You'd expect 5000+ cycles from a modern kwh nmc battery, 8000+ if LFP. If you manage just 2 miles per kwh, then that's 200,000 miles just from the battery alone.
There have been a few horror stories of PHEV batteries dying at this kind of mileage.
Equally there are lots of PHEVs out there which have rarely been plugged in.
Many high mileage rep mobiles are PHEVs these days, their drivers get fuel paid. Go figure as they say.
Buying a car for say £10k, I'd either want it to last me at least 5 years, or I'd want to be sure it would have a decent value say two years down the line.
Otherwise leasing or buying a newer car starts to look better value.
For many people, a non-plug-in hybrid might make more sense in the long run.
I think there is a lot to be said for looking at Toyota, they have a lot of learning from hybrids behind them.
Some other makes seem to have cobbled together hybrids as a short-term stop gap until the market goes full BEV.
There is still a lot of other tech on modern cars to go wrong, scope for big bills out of warranty over 100k miles?
OutInTheShed said:
5000 cycles times 20 miles electric range would mean the battery was shagged at 100k miles.
And you won't know how many of those miles were done on electric, and how many using the petrol engine - and whilst the workshops might be able to access that data the end user or potential next owner can't.I've done about 17,000 miles in my PHEV since getting it new last year, so by the time I move it on it'll have covered above average mileage. I plug it in daily and exhaust the battery most days, sometimes twice if Octopus are giving me some cheap daytime charging, but the next owner may presume the high mileage = all motorway miles.
cheeky_chops said:
Which car? Old colleague had an new early Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, used to get 20m range in summer and less than that in winter (i had a 2015 leaf at the time). For all the extra complexity/risk/hassle it didnt seem worth it even back then
Either a 330e (most are ex fleet), Superb/Octavia iV or V60 T6.I have a drive and solar panels so plan to plug it on very often. Most of my journeys are around town at less than 20mph, with a once weekly 80 miles round cross country.
We also have family 370miles and 120miles away so do long journeys once a month on average.
I have a 2 year old DS9 with 12,000 miles and a 3 year old Citroen C5X with 67,000 they are both PHEV 225s so have the same drive train and battery. The DS9 when fully charged shows 30 miles on electric and the C5X 24. However in the real world they both do about 20 - 25 miles on electric only. I don't see any real world difference in electric only range between the two.
The batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles and I think most manufactures do the same.
I can't see why the batteries and motors won't last as least as long as the rest of the car. I'd be more worried about a modern diesel with all the DPF/ AdBlue and all the emissions stuff they have to fit now.
The batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles and I think most manufactures do the same.
I can't see why the batteries and motors won't last as least as long as the rest of the car. I'd be more worried about a modern diesel with all the DPF/ AdBlue and all the emissions stuff they have to fit now.
Out of interest, I'm on my third PHEV. This one (Audi A6) is warranteed for a free battery replacement for up to 100,000 miles or 8 years. I'd suggest Audi will know it'll last a lot longer than that if they are prepared to replace it for free in June 2034 or when I have 99,000 miles on the clock.
Second hand, I have no idea what any warranty will cover.
Second hand, I have no idea what any warranty will cover.
LivLL said:
The DS9 is a rare beast, I don't think I've ever seen one on the road. Nice looking car.
Thanks, It is a bit of a looker. Without wanting to derail this thread, there is a thread about the car and the (very) few of us daft enough to have owned one.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
chrisman said:
I have a 2 year old DS9 with 12,000 miles and a 3 year old Citroen C5X with 67,000 they are both PHEV 225s so have the same drive train and battery. The DS9 when fully charged shows 30 miles on electric and the C5X 24. However in the real world they both do about 20 - 25 miles on electric only. I don't see any real world difference in electric only range between the two.
The batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles and I think most manufactures do the same.
I can't see why the batteries and motors won't last as least as long as the rest of the car. I'd be more worried about a modern diesel with all the DPF/ AdBlue and all the emissions stuff they have to fit now.
Good to hear about the DS9, how do you find the powertrain?The batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles and I think most manufactures do the same.
I can't see why the batteries and motors won't last as least as long as the rest of the car. I'd be more worried about a modern diesel with all the DPF/ AdBlue and all the emissions stuff they have to fit now.
willmagrath said:
Good to hear about the DS9, how do you find the powertrain?
I really like the powertrain setup in the DS9. It's not fast in todays world and doesn't have the battery range of some others, but it is smooth and quiet. Most of the time you can only tell if it's using the engine or motor by the colour of the speed display. One of the reasons I went for the C5X is that is has the same powertrain. I can't really feel any difference between the DS9 setup and the C5X despite the C5X having done 5X the mileage which I hope reflects on it longevity.
The DS9 is a lease car and actually goes back today and due to a change in circumstances I doubt I'll be leasing again any time soon, hence the C5X.
I did consider buying a top spec DS9 but they are rare and nearly double the price of a C5X so I'm not sure they're worth the extra despite feeling a bit more special.
Edited by chrisman on Thursday 18th June 14:06
Edited by chrisman on Thursday 18th June 14:15
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