Is it mad my dad s Jags being auctioned off with no reserve?
Discussion
Hi all, grateful for your thoughts on this as my nights have been restless to say the least.
My late old man was a huge Jaguar fan, a lifelong passion that saw him own pretty much every model at one point, we estimate over 100 different cars. He was genuinely addicted to Jags and in the 1990 s even owned over 50 simultaneously. In later years he whittled this collection down to 10 of his favourites that he could simply not part with and they were his most treasured possessions.
After he died it was a case of sadly selling the collection off so the proceeds split between the remaining family members. This fell on myself being the only petrol head and I ve sold the more modern cars via autotrader, things like XJS s, XK8 and XK s and all went well. All the cars were well looked after as he always only bought nice ones, his hobby used to be travelling the length of the country hunting down the right examples.
The final three cars from the collection that are left are though are the cars he kept the longest, bought in the 80 s and early 90 s, and ones he treasured the most. Given they are rarer and more niche cars that values can vary significantly on condition, my family decided to go the auction route with them so they achieve fair market values, which is logical in my opinion. They also decided against my opinion to take a big gamble and put them on as no reserve.
Obviously this can have its benefits but it s a huge worry that his most valuable cars which make up the majority of his assets could possibly go for way under market value and completely backfire. I d be grateful for your thoughts on this.
Yes I also suggested to my family pistonheads would be the best place to market them but this again was overruled by other family members.
Thanks all ?
My late old man was a huge Jaguar fan, a lifelong passion that saw him own pretty much every model at one point, we estimate over 100 different cars. He was genuinely addicted to Jags and in the 1990 s even owned over 50 simultaneously. In later years he whittled this collection down to 10 of his favourites that he could simply not part with and they were his most treasured possessions.
After he died it was a case of sadly selling the collection off so the proceeds split between the remaining family members. This fell on myself being the only petrol head and I ve sold the more modern cars via autotrader, things like XJS s, XK8 and XK s and all went well. All the cars were well looked after as he always only bought nice ones, his hobby used to be travelling the length of the country hunting down the right examples.
The final three cars from the collection that are left are though are the cars he kept the longest, bought in the 80 s and early 90 s, and ones he treasured the most. Given they are rarer and more niche cars that values can vary significantly on condition, my family decided to go the auction route with them so they achieve fair market values, which is logical in my opinion. They also decided against my opinion to take a big gamble and put them on as no reserve.
Obviously this can have its benefits but it s a huge worry that his most valuable cars which make up the majority of his assets could possibly go for way under market value and completely backfire. I d be grateful for your thoughts on this.
Yes I also suggested to my family pistonheads would be the best place to market them but this again was overruled by other family members.
Thanks all ?
Moderator edit: no advertising
KILOCHARLIE said:
The final three cars from the collection that are left are though are the cars he kept the longest, bought in the 80 s and early 90 s, and ones he treasured the most. Given they are rarer and more niche cars that values can vary significantly on condition, my family decided to go the auction route with them so they achieve fair market values, which is logical in my opinion. They also decided against my opinion to take a big gamble and put them on as no reserve.
Obviously this can have its benefits but it s a huge worry that his most valuable cars which make up the majority of his assets could possibly go for way under market value and completely backfire. I d be grateful for your thoughts on this.
Unfortunately, places like Collecting Cars really push hard for no reserve or very low reserves. I sold a car recently and was pushed to a much lower reserve than I was comfortable with and then plagued with phone calls on the auction day to remove the reserve. It didn't sell and I put in on AutoTrader and got around £10k more on the 3rd call.Obviously this can have its benefits but it s a huge worry that his most valuable cars which make up the majority of his assets could possibly go for way under market value and completely backfire. I d be grateful for your thoughts on this.
A bit of a ramble there, but yes, it's a risk to have no reserve - unless you are all desperate for quick cash. I would establish the values (not difficult) and put in an appropriate reserve.
Worth adding - as I am sure you know - values are significantly down... you need to do your homework to set a realistic goal.
Dannbodge said:
Look on car and classic and get an idea of what they are selling for.
Could also speak to Tom lenthal or a similar trader/garage to get valuations?
Thanks, yes Cars&Classic are who they are on with. They were great and gave a balanced view of the benefits and pitfalls of both reserve vs no reserve, but the family eventually decided to take the risky option. Could also speak to Tom lenthal or a similar trader/garage to get valuations?
Johnniem said:
May I also suggest a call to the Jaguar Enthusiast Club, of which, I am sure, he was a member, given his love of Jags. My Dad was the same but never had more than one at a time (apart from the XK150 that he stored elsewhere).
Good luck with the sales!
Thanks that’s a great idea. Hopefully they could spread the word and would encourage bidding. Good luck with the sales!
NDA said:
Unfortunately, places like Collecting Cars really push hard for no reserve or very low reserves. I sold a car recently and was pushed to a much lower reserve than I was comfortable with and then plagued with phone calls on the auction day to remove the reserve. It didn't sell and I put in on AutoTrader and got around £10k more on the 3rd call.
A bit of a ramble there, but yes, it's a risk to have no reserve - unless you are all desperate for quick cash. I would establish the values (not difficult) and put in an appropriate reserve.
Worth adding - as I am sure you know - values are significantly down... you need to do your homework to set a realistic goal.
It was Cars&classic rather than Collecting Cars as the family decided it was better for the type of cars. In fairness they weren t pushy with making them no reserve. A bit of a ramble there, but yes, it's a risk to have no reserve - unless you are all desperate for quick cash. I would establish the values (not difficult) and put in an appropriate reserve.
Worth adding - as I am sure you know - values are significantly down... you need to do your homework to set a realistic goal.
With values being down, this is a big concern as if no one is buying they ll be sold well under market rate.
It's a risk, but you also have to balance two opposing views,
"Get shot of those old cars ASAP."
"These rare and treasured cars must go the right owner for the highest possible price, however long it takes."
No reserve is a risk financially, but guarantees they're gone. They'll be clocking-up expenses for as long as they form part of the estate, both directly and indirectly.
Edit - if you're that concerned, set a reserve at say 80% of the market value. High enough to stop any major losses. If they don't sell for the top bid, a deal can be done with the top bidder after the auction. The auctioneers should facilitate/pester you to do that, because then they get their cut.
Ultimately, it's a cliche, but they are worth whatever the top bidder pays.
More edit,
"Get shot of those old cars ASAP."
"These rare and treasured cars must go the right owner for the highest possible price, however long it takes."
No reserve is a risk financially, but guarantees they're gone. They'll be clocking-up expenses for as long as they form part of the estate, both directly and indirectly.
Edit - if you're that concerned, set a reserve at say 80% of the market value. High enough to stop any major losses. If they don't sell for the top bid, a deal can be done with the top bidder after the auction. The auctioneers should facilitate/pester you to do that, because then they get their cut.
Ultimately, it's a cliche, but they are worth whatever the top bidder pays.
More edit,
KILOCHARLIE said:
With values being down, this is a big concern as if no one is buying they ll be sold well under market rate.
If values are down, that -is- the market rate.Edited by shtu on Thursday 3rd September 11:33
It's not an easy situation and a lot would depend on the actal models, age and condition and 'realistic' values. Who is/are the executor(s) - ie is it your decision or a group one?
The problem with no reserve is obviously that the vendor needs to be happy that it could sell for, say, £100. If that would always be in the back of your mind, and that of any other beneficiaries, ie in the years ahead, then it probably isn't a wise decision. Much will depend on the storage situation, whether the estate can be distributed without selling the cars (sounds unlikely from what you've said) etc..
Putting to auction would meet the executor's duty, but I wouldn't be happy with no reserve unless it was a case of 'it has to go now', and even no reserve doesn't guarantee a sale, even though it might pull in more potential bidders.
From the auctioneer's perspective, they'd rather have a commission on 'not-a-lot' than none at all; so I wouldn't be persuaded by their viewpoint unless I was forced into a corner. However, if other beneficiaries believe the executor(s) are stalling the estate settlement (unlikely from what you say), that could prove difficult.
Other opinions are available.
The problem with no reserve is obviously that the vendor needs to be happy that it could sell for, say, £100. If that would always be in the back of your mind, and that of any other beneficiaries, ie in the years ahead, then it probably isn't a wise decision. Much will depend on the storage situation, whether the estate can be distributed without selling the cars (sounds unlikely from what you've said) etc..
Putting to auction would meet the executor's duty, but I wouldn't be happy with no reserve unless it was a case of 'it has to go now', and even no reserve doesn't guarantee a sale, even though it might pull in more potential bidders.
From the auctioneer's perspective, they'd rather have a commission on 'not-a-lot' than none at all; so I wouldn't be persuaded by their viewpoint unless I was forced into a corner. However, if other beneficiaries believe the executor(s) are stalling the estate settlement (unlikely from what you say), that could prove difficult.
Other opinions are available.
shtu said:
It's a risk, but you also have to balance two opposing views,
"Get shot of those old cars ASAP."
"These rare and treasured cars must go the right owner for the highest possible price, however long it takes."
No reserve is a risk financially, but guarantees they're gone. They'll be clocking-up expenses for as long as they form part of the estate, both directly and indirectly.
Edit - if you're that concerned, set a reserve at say 80% of the market value. High enough to stop any major losses. If they don't sell for the top bid, a deal can be done with the top bidder after the auction. The auctioneers should facilitate/pester you to do that, because then they get their cut.
Ultimately, it's a cliche, but they are worth whatever the top bidder pays.
More edit,
I like the idea of the painful but not disastrous reserve."Get shot of those old cars ASAP."
"These rare and treasured cars must go the right owner for the highest possible price, however long it takes."
No reserve is a risk financially, but guarantees they're gone. They'll be clocking-up expenses for as long as they form part of the estate, both directly and indirectly.
Edit - if you're that concerned, set a reserve at say 80% of the market value. High enough to stop any major losses. If they don't sell for the top bid, a deal can be done with the top bidder after the auction. The auctioneers should facilitate/pester you to do that, because then they get their cut.
Ultimately, it's a cliche, but they are worth whatever the top bidder pays.
More edit,
KILOCHARLIE said:
With values being down, this is a big concern as if no one is buying they ll be sold well under market rate.
If values are down, that -is- the market rate.Edited by shtu on Thursday 3rd September 11:33
Probably better they are gone than waiting for things to turn up.
That could be a long wait.
The deceased would have been faced with the same market conditions had they decided to sell up.
The OP should not feel that they are letting anyone down imho.
It's not easy.
Yes, selling at auction with no reserve is a risk....
But..... it's also a viable and recognised way of proving fair value.
Nobody with a vested interest in the value of the cars (which includes HMRC!) can argue that they have been sold at values less than their 'worth', because the auction bidders determine the 'worth' as at the date and time of the auction. They might have a different 'worth' on another day or in another sale forum, but on auction day at no reserve, the cars are 'worth' however much those in the room/online are willing to bid right there, right then.
I appreciate it must be really hard, given the emotional attachment and how much your dad treasured these vehicles, but if you are able to look beyond that it might help put your mind at rest a little.
Ultimately, if the family has decided the cars should all be sold, the control of those cherished assets will be transferred to someone else and as much as one can have ideas in mind of the £ figure they are 'worth' to you, their real £ value is whatever they are 'worth' to any buyer prepared to take them on.... Those figures are rarely the same and in such circumstances how do you determine a figure that's irrefutably fair for both buyer and seller? particularly if the seller has others looking over their shoulder, potentially motivated to question the value of sales achieved?
The answer is an auction and an auction with no reserve has it's advantages, particularly for cars being offered to the market for the first time in a long time.
If it works like it's designed you should achieve fair values. Importantly, there is also transparency and very limited liability, all of which are of great benefit to you late father's estate.
As hard and worrying as it is, you should try and accept that, in this case, selling with no reserve has a purpose and the purpose is larger than just disposing of the cars.
No family ever intends to fall out over the assets of a loved one, but you'd be amazed how many families spiral into argument with all the emotion over death, particularly where any money is involved. Well considered compromises to reduce any potential sources of argument is one of the more practical and pragmatic things one can do in the wake of losing a loved one to preserve their memory in a happy and positive way. If selling these cars in a no reserve auction helps reduce the chances of anyone pointing any fingers further down the line, the few £ thousand less one may receive in sale proceeds will be well worth it.
Whilst it's come from a good place from you, you need to be aware that taking on the sales of the other cars has already exposed you as a potential target for finger pointing and dissatisfaction further down the line. You've obviously had good resutls (to your mind) so far, but you don't know how other members of your family are feeling. You may think this is ridiculous, but grief affects everyone differently and some people make unbelievably irrational decisions and accusations whilst suffering that they are unlikely to share and which can harbour long held resentment - I'd hate for you to set yourself up to become the target for this.
You should be proud of what you've done so far, accept that some things are outside your control and have wider ramifications than one might expect. By all means express your opinion over your concern for this strategy, but I'd gently encourage you to follow what the majority of the family have agreed to and accept the results for what they are. It's very unlikely it will backfire spectacularly and, in perspective, will have little meaning in the long term leagcy and memory of your dad. It's your dad's memory that's actually more important than anything else.
But..... it's also a viable and recognised way of proving fair value.
Nobody with a vested interest in the value of the cars (which includes HMRC!) can argue that they have been sold at values less than their 'worth', because the auction bidders determine the 'worth' as at the date and time of the auction. They might have a different 'worth' on another day or in another sale forum, but on auction day at no reserve, the cars are 'worth' however much those in the room/online are willing to bid right there, right then.
I appreciate it must be really hard, given the emotional attachment and how much your dad treasured these vehicles, but if you are able to look beyond that it might help put your mind at rest a little.
Ultimately, if the family has decided the cars should all be sold, the control of those cherished assets will be transferred to someone else and as much as one can have ideas in mind of the £ figure they are 'worth' to you, their real £ value is whatever they are 'worth' to any buyer prepared to take them on.... Those figures are rarely the same and in such circumstances how do you determine a figure that's irrefutably fair for both buyer and seller? particularly if the seller has others looking over their shoulder, potentially motivated to question the value of sales achieved?
The answer is an auction and an auction with no reserve has it's advantages, particularly for cars being offered to the market for the first time in a long time.
If it works like it's designed you should achieve fair values. Importantly, there is also transparency and very limited liability, all of which are of great benefit to you late father's estate.
As hard and worrying as it is, you should try and accept that, in this case, selling with no reserve has a purpose and the purpose is larger than just disposing of the cars.
No family ever intends to fall out over the assets of a loved one, but you'd be amazed how many families spiral into argument with all the emotion over death, particularly where any money is involved. Well considered compromises to reduce any potential sources of argument is one of the more practical and pragmatic things one can do in the wake of losing a loved one to preserve their memory in a happy and positive way. If selling these cars in a no reserve auction helps reduce the chances of anyone pointing any fingers further down the line, the few £ thousand less one may receive in sale proceeds will be well worth it.
Whilst it's come from a good place from you, you need to be aware that taking on the sales of the other cars has already exposed you as a potential target for finger pointing and dissatisfaction further down the line. You've obviously had good resutls (to your mind) so far, but you don't know how other members of your family are feeling. You may think this is ridiculous, but grief affects everyone differently and some people make unbelievably irrational decisions and accusations whilst suffering that they are unlikely to share and which can harbour long held resentment - I'd hate for you to set yourself up to become the target for this.
You should be proud of what you've done so far, accept that some things are outside your control and have wider ramifications than one might expect. By all means express your opinion over your concern for this strategy, but I'd gently encourage you to follow what the majority of the family have agreed to and accept the results for what they are. It's very unlikely it will backfire spectacularly and, in perspective, will have little meaning in the long term leagcy and memory of your dad. It's your dad's memory that's actually more important than anything else.
Thanks for the kind words everyone. I’ll keep my fingers crossed!
If I could ask everyone to share with anyone they know who may be interested (or have any ideas where I could do this myself) then I’d be very grateful. The more exposure I can get to the auctions I guess the better chance of getting decent prices for them. Thanks again.
If I could ask everyone to share with anyone they know who may be interested (or have any ideas where I could do this myself) then I’d be very grateful. The more exposure I can get to the auctions I guess the better chance of getting decent prices for them. Thanks again.
KILOCHARLIE said:
Thanks for the kind words everyone. I ll keep my fingers crossed!
If I could ask everyone to share with anyone they know who may be interested (or have any ideas where I could do this myself) then I d be very grateful. The more exposure I can get to the auctions I guess the better chance of getting decent prices for them. Thanks again.
See my post further up. If I could ask everyone to share with anyone they know who may be interested (or have any ideas where I could do this myself) then I d be very grateful. The more exposure I can get to the auctions I guess the better chance of getting decent prices for them. Thanks again.
KILOCHARLIE said:
...The final three cars from the collection that are left are though are the cars he kept the longest, bought in the 80 s and early 90 s, and ones he treasured the most. Given they are rarer and more niche cars that values can vary significantly on condition, my family decided to go the auction route with them so they achieve fair market values, which is logical in my opinion. They also decided against my opinion to take a big gamble and put them on as no reserve.
Obviously this can have its benefits but it s a huge worry that his most valuable cars which make up the majority of his assets could possibly go for way under market value and completely backfire. I d be grateful for your thoughts on this. ...
Obviously this can have its benefits but it s a huge worry that his most valuable cars which make up the majority of his assets could possibly go for way under market value and completely backfire. I d be grateful for your thoughts on this. ...
So sorry. A sad time.
Be very careful which auction firm you use.
Prices achieved can vary considerably, because of different markets and varying groups of buyers.
You may already know, but one current auction firm has allegedly been involved in dodgy activities. Must not name, but begins H.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff