Buying a used EV isn t easy!
Discussion
Shopping for a used EV isn’t easy!….
Been looking for a while at used EV's, started at cheap BMW i3s, then Leafs, Ipace, leggy Model S, Hyundai Kona with wheel of fortune gear unit noise……
We had a V70 for 16years and currently have an D5 XC90 and we appreciate the Gothenburg era Volvos, so we increased our budget and narrowed the search down to an XC40 recharge single motor.
Problem is that I’m looking at 3year old lease return cars with low mileages. The two we looked at today both had worse than expected battery SOH reports.
16k miles, 3year old, 94% SOH.
For comparison (same car/model) I’ve seen 21k miles, same age, 98.5% SOH
I noticed in one of today’s that the charge limit reminder was set at 100% rather than Volvos recommended 90%
I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn’t do the battery any good either by people who don’t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
I keep our cars a long time hence trying to find the absolute best condition upfront but it’s not easy to balance condition / price / battery health!
Today’s sales person wouldn’t email me the battery reports and would only show me his phone screen with the SOH percentage results and not the mV divergence. Walked away at that point frustrated at another day lost trying to buy what should be an easy purchase.
I understand why people PCP / Salsac new cars!
Been looking for a while at used EV's, started at cheap BMW i3s, then Leafs, Ipace, leggy Model S, Hyundai Kona with wheel of fortune gear unit noise……
We had a V70 for 16years and currently have an D5 XC90 and we appreciate the Gothenburg era Volvos, so we increased our budget and narrowed the search down to an XC40 recharge single motor.
Problem is that I’m looking at 3year old lease return cars with low mileages. The two we looked at today both had worse than expected battery SOH reports.
16k miles, 3year old, 94% SOH.
For comparison (same car/model) I’ve seen 21k miles, same age, 98.5% SOH
I noticed in one of today’s that the charge limit reminder was set at 100% rather than Volvos recommended 90%
I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn’t do the battery any good either by people who don’t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
I keep our cars a long time hence trying to find the absolute best condition upfront but it’s not easy to balance condition / price / battery health!
Today’s sales person wouldn’t email me the battery reports and would only show me his phone screen with the SOH percentage results and not the mV divergence. Walked away at that point frustrated at another day lost trying to buy what should be an easy purchase.
I understand why people PCP / Salsac new cars!
I don’t entirely trust the SOH reports you sometimes see. What I have observed though is that after the initial drop battery degradation is minimal year on year with battery management improvements in the last 5 yrs. 94/95. % wouldn’t trouble me if the car was the right car at the right price.
But is the SOH all important? I think 94% still sounds pretty good. It's only one part of the whole picture of a used car, and losing maybe 4% of battery capacity is fairly irrelevant day to day. The available range will vary with the seasons by around 20% anyway. I think I would judge overall condition first rather than fixate on any individual element.
My PCP EV goes back in April and I've already looked at used ones. It is annoying how many dealers make no attempt to get SOH and publish it. Some do, I thought it was going to be compulsory?
Some makes seem to retain much better than others, and some almost identical cars can vary a lot. As you suggest, fast charging to 100% is often degrading, but if they're only having it 2 - 3 yrs, they don't really care.
Some makes seem to retain much better than others, and some almost identical cars can vary a lot. As you suggest, fast charging to 100% is often degrading, but if they're only having it 2 - 3 yrs, they don't really care.
Went through the same ordeal just over a month ago. Started out at a few grand for a Leaf then moved on to Hyundai but ruled them out due to the reduction gearbox failures (as you say) and the budget slowly increased until I found something.
Rolled the dice on a private sale Model 3. No warranty bar drivetrain & battery remaining. I've had to replace some suspension parts but overall pleased with my purchase. It's 5 years old, 57k miles, 95% SOH FYI,
It's very difficult to find something decent. Many ex lease cars just aren't looked after properly.
Rolled the dice on a private sale Model 3. No warranty bar drivetrain & battery remaining. I've had to replace some suspension parts but overall pleased with my purchase. It's 5 years old, 57k miles, 95% SOH FYI,
It's very difficult to find something decent. Many ex lease cars just aren't looked after properly.
JCM001 said:
Went through the same ordeal just over a month ago. Started out at a few grand for a Leaf then moved on to Hyundai but ruled them out due to the reduction gearbox failures (as you say) and the budget slowly increased until I found something.
Rolled the dice on a private sale Model 3. No warranty bar drivetrain & battery remaining. I've had to replace some suspension parts but overall pleased with my purchase. It's 5 years old, 57k miles, 95% SOH FYI,
It's very difficult to find something decent. Many ex lease cars just aren't looked after properly.
Model3 ticks a lot of boxes .apart from the boot! Why didnt they make it a hatchback!Rolled the dice on a private sale Model 3. No warranty bar drivetrain & battery remaining. I've had to replace some suspension parts but overall pleased with my purchase. It's 5 years old, 57k miles, 95% SOH FYI,
It's very difficult to find something decent. Many ex lease cars just aren't looked after properly.
The leggy Model S that we test drove was good and generally wore its 115k miles well but the expensive to repair / replace air suspension put me off.
Model Y is holding its value more than the 3 or S and we are more drawn to the Volvo EV at that price point
Good friend of ours has his own business, had a leased VW Caddy -went in it plenty of times with him, redlined from cold every time, absolutely thrashed {lease car} Doesnt treat his Boxster or FFRR like that.
Edited by RustyNissanPrairie on Thursday 24th September 21:07
p4cks said:
I think you could be overthinking it. This battery health malarkey isn t all it s cracked up to be.
There s a 250,000 Tesla on YouTube with 84% battery health and real world it means absolutely nowt.
Get the best Tesla Model 3 LR you can find.
We would do but the boot is unsuitable for us on an M3. There s a 250,000 Tesla on YouTube with 84% battery health and real world it means absolutely nowt.
Get the best Tesla Model 3 LR you can find.
jamesb2 said:
We have had a couple of EVs and hardly anyone sticks to the 80% most are pcps / company and nobody including me cares about the life of the battery and the warranty is normaly 8 years so it will be someone else's problem then , Sorry
This is what Im findingSame car/model/age
16k miles, 94% SOH
21k miles, 98.5% SOH
Im guessing the 2nd car has been charged to 80 or 90%. They are the same price so im now pursuing the 98.5% car
RustyNissanPrairie said:
I noticed in one of today s that the charge limit reminder was set at 100% rather than Volvos recommended 90%
I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn t do the battery any good either by people who don t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
Ha! We have four XC30s at work - all around 50k miles now. I set the charge level on one to 90% which was followed not long after by an email telling us not to do that.I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn t do the battery any good either by people who don t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
irc said:
RustyNissanPrairie said:
I noticed in one of today s that the charge limit reminder was set at 100% rather than Volvos recommended 90%
I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn t do the battery any good either by people who don t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
Ha! We have four XC30s at work - all around 50k miles now. I set the charge level on one to 90% which was followed not long after by an email telling us not to do that.I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn t do the battery any good either by people who don t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
Does it matter that much? 4.5% of battery is probably a 9 miles difference in range. The fact that a battery has degraded slightly further to date doesn't mean it'll continue at the same rate, in fact degradation tends to slow down over time. So in another three years' time you might be looking at say 92% vs 95% or something, so an even smaller gap. I think most of these cars will end up in the high-80% range by the end of their lives.
There's also the question of how accurate the battery SoH test is anyway, whether it could be affected by eg temperature.
In terms of what causes degradation I do think habitually leaving a battery at 100% charge for days on end is bad for it. I charge mine to 90% normally, then bump up to 100% the night before a long trip, so only leaving it at the top for a few hours. There's also fast charging which I think is bad if the battery gets hot as a result.
You could also consider a Polestar 2, same platform, as they seem to be fairly numerous and were a little cheaper when I was looking. If you buy Polestar approved used they'll give you a battery state of health certificate, perhaps Volvo do too?
Anyway, don't give up, you'll find the right car in the end.
There's also the question of how accurate the battery SoH test is anyway, whether it could be affected by eg temperature.
In terms of what causes degradation I do think habitually leaving a battery at 100% charge for days on end is bad for it. I charge mine to 90% normally, then bump up to 100% the night before a long trip, so only leaving it at the top for a few hours. There's also fast charging which I think is bad if the battery gets hot as a result.
You could also consider a Polestar 2, same platform, as they seem to be fairly numerous and were a little cheaper when I was looking. If you buy Polestar approved used they'll give you a battery state of health certificate, perhaps Volvo do too?
Anyway, don't give up, you'll find the right car in the end.
Battery SOH really slows after early 90s. They drop really fast in the early days. I really think you are overthinking it. On my 4th EV, never done a battery check just plug in and go in the morning. You will never get the 100% range anyway.
Wife has a new model 3, as in we collected on 11 miles, always charged to 100% as recommended and sometimes gets 290 miles, sometimes 230 just depends what you do with them. Same as an ice car really.
Wife has a new model 3, as in we collected on 11 miles, always charged to 100% as recommended and sometimes gets 290 miles, sometimes 230 just depends what you do with them. Same as an ice car really.
RustyNissanPrairie said:
Shopping for a used EV isn t easy! .
Been looking for a while at used EV's, started at cheap BMW i3s, then Leafs, Ipace, leggy Model S, Hyundai Kona with wheel of fortune gear unit noise
We had a V70 for 16years and currently have an D5 XC90 and we appreciate the Gothenburg era Volvos, so we increased our budget and narrowed the search down to an XC40 recharge single motor.
Problem is that I m looking at 3year old lease return cars with low mileages. The two we looked at today both had worse than expected battery SOH reports.
16k miles, 3year old, 94% SOH.
For comparison (same car/model) I ve seen 21k miles, same age, 98.5% SOH
I noticed in one of today s that the charge limit reminder was set at 100% rather than Volvos recommended 90%
I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn t do the battery any good either by people who don t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
I keep our cars a long time hence trying to find the absolute best condition upfront but it s not easy to balance condition / price / battery health!
Today s sales person wouldn t email me the battery reports and would only show me his phone screen with the SOH percentage results and not the mV divergence. Walked away at that point frustrated at another day lost trying to buy what should be an easy purchase.
I understand why people PCP / Salsac new cars!
1) A battery is not an engine. Engines wear out by 'miles', batteries die of 'years' and abuse. Been looking for a while at used EV's, started at cheap BMW i3s, then Leafs, Ipace, leggy Model S, Hyundai Kona with wheel of fortune gear unit noise
We had a V70 for 16years and currently have an D5 XC90 and we appreciate the Gothenburg era Volvos, so we increased our budget and narrowed the search down to an XC40 recharge single motor.
Problem is that I m looking at 3year old lease return cars with low mileages. The two we looked at today both had worse than expected battery SOH reports.
16k miles, 3year old, 94% SOH.
For comparison (same car/model) I ve seen 21k miles, same age, 98.5% SOH
I noticed in one of today s that the charge limit reminder was set at 100% rather than Volvos recommended 90%
I think these lease cars have sat for long periods at full charge which doesn t do the battery any good either by people who don t understand EV battery care or {shrug shoulders lease car}
I keep our cars a long time hence trying to find the absolute best condition upfront but it s not easy to balance condition / price / battery health!
Today s sales person wouldn t email me the battery reports and would only show me his phone screen with the SOH percentage results and not the mV divergence. Walked away at that point frustrated at another day lost trying to buy what should be an easy purchase.
I understand why people PCP / Salsac new cars!
Low mileage may not be the thing it was.
2) Your IC car strategy of keeping cars over a decade is history.
Neither EVs nor modern IC cars are intended to last 20 years.
A lot of us need a culture shift.
OutInTheShed said:
2) Your IC car strategy of keeping cars over a decade is history.
Balaerics.OutInTheShed said:
Neither EVs nor modern IC cars are intended to last 20 years.
True, but it doesn't mean that all cars will die within 10 years. Some will be able to keep going much longer, from decent quality manufacturers.OutInTheShed said:
A lot of us need a culture shift.
Is the culture you think we need to shift to, possibly Chinese? I'll stick with European stuff for now, thanks.Danm1les said:
I really would not get caught up on SOH reports, they appear to vary wildly from garage to garage and unless you are looking at manufacturer run ones, like the one the Tesla can self run, its no like for like comparison I have found.
This. Depending on the method used and numerous environmental factors the results can vary wildly, they're not worth the paper they're written on in most cases.Just buy the car you like OP, at 3 years and 16k miles the battery will be in good health and you've still got 5 years and 84k miles of warranty left on it anyway.
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