Supercar tulips
Discussion
Every where you look there are people saying buy such and such car and make fast money. Even mainstream companies releasing special editions that go straight up in value.
It feels like a massive bubble. Especially with cars getting into 10 million figure.
It just feels that cars are just being bought now to make money. Supercars always used to be slightly attenable in fantasy land.
It feels like a massive bubble. Especially with cars getting into 10 million figure.
It just feels that cars are just being bought now to make money. Supercars always used to be slightly attenable in fantasy land.
As inequality increases there are more rich people, hence a bigger market for very expensive cars.
I don't think it's as simple as 'just' buying cars to make money; more like a combination of factors.
Can easily afford it, expect value to rise, any appreciation is tax-free, interest in the cars as a collector, chance to attend swanky events and feel cool, ability to impress others, and oh just occasionally actually driving the thing.
To me looking at things like Gallardos, Corvette C8s, or Sports Series McLarens for well under £100k I would actually say that supercars are 'slightly attainable'. Of course there are many models into seven figures as well, but to me the "supercar" market has expanded rather than just shifted upwards out of reach.
samoht said:
As inequality increases there are more rich people, hence a bigger market for very expensive cars.
I don't think it's as simple as 'just' buying cars to make money; more like a combination of factors.
Can easily afford it, expect value to rise, any appreciation is tax-free, interest in the cars as a collector, chance to attend swanky events and feel cool, ability to impress others, and oh just occasionally actually driving the thing.
Whilst there are quite a few wealthy people who want nice cars, there is now a market for accumulating wealth on cars even without any interest in them. There are companies now that sell shares in cars that the "owners" will never be able to drive, just generate wealth from. I don't think it's as simple as 'just' buying cars to make money; more like a combination of factors.
Can easily afford it, expect value to rise, any appreciation is tax-free, interest in the cars as a collector, chance to attend swanky events and feel cool, ability to impress others, and oh just occasionally actually driving the thing.
This to me is a problem: cars are being moved out of the hands of enthusiasts and turned into financial products that happen to be cars.
MikeM6 said:
Whilst there are quite a few wealthy people who want nice cars, there is now a market for accumulating wealth on cars even without any interest in them. There are companies now that sell shares in cars that the "owners" will never be able to drive, just generate wealth from.
This to me is a problem: cars are being moved out of the hands of enthusiasts and turned into financial products that happen to be cars.
This is nothing new.This to me is a problem: cars are being moved out of the hands of enthusiasts and turned into financial products that happen to be cars.
It's been the same with classic and rare motorbikes since at least the 80s, with collectors having barns full of them that never see the light of day.
I've had a few mildly 'collectable' bikes, as daily transport. I sold them eventually at a decent notional profit, typically twice what I paid, having used them for 10 years or whatever.
The problem is, there are more and more vehicles regarded as 'collector' cars/bikes every year.
Ducati for instance have churned out special editions and race reps by the thousand.
Then loads of people have converted 'cooking' versions into more desirable variants.
It's complicated when people actually buy race versions to race, as these get modified anyway.
Collectors are getting old like everyone else, 60s bikes are relatively cheap now compared to some 80s bikes as the demographics move.
I'm not sure there will be a queue of people wanting to pay silly money for some of these vehicles in 10 years time.
To get really silly money, they have to be museum grade, and that means a high cost of ownership and not much utility.
OutInTheShed said:
This is nothing new.
Maybe not in principle, but the extent of it, probably spurred on by high levels of taxation (both real and perceived) and YouTube churning out guidance on how to make money, seems much more than ever. This is possibly also exacerbated by the sense that the end of interesting cars is nearing.
MikeM6 said:
It's because it's a tax dodger. You don't pay tax on the increasing value of cars (I think).
It's not exactly a 'dodge,' HMRC consider anything with mechanical moving parts as having a finite life, so are not subject to capital gains tax. Unfortunately, it therefore attracts 'investors' to classic cars rather than just enthusiasts. 
The same goes for antique clocks, watches and anything else with moving parts. Pictures, sculpture, etc ARE subject to CGT.
MikeM6 said:
OutInTheShed said:
This is nothing new.
Maybe not in principle, but the extent of it, probably spurred on by high levels of taxation (both real and perceived) and YouTube churning out guidance on how to make money, seems much more than ever. This is possibly also exacerbated by the sense that the end of interesting cars is nearing.
Low interest rates have meant that people can borrow to buy nice cars, and that there's no incentive to keep money in the building society.
So we've had a boom market in anything that looks like an appreciating asset.
It's also not just a UK thing, although we've seen a lot of people importing bikes to collect from the US etc.
Yes it's easy to look back and say that they don't make interesting cars any more, but it's also possible to look forwards and suspect that less people will want to drive most of these cars in ten years time.
The situation has also been exacerbated by changes in media and culture, lots of youtube and minority channel TV pumping the concept and lots of vested interests making money today, on the promise of punters having assets for the long term.
I think the days of everything over 40 years old being a valuable classic may be over, there is more to life than saving VED.
I had a Morris Marina once, anyone who paid big money for one needs to be sectioned. But at the peak of the market somebody paid north of £15k for one.
Supercars though, you can argue are a different market, but where do you draw the line?
When you get into trinkets that cost a million quid, there are people who will buy them and not have to worry if they're worth half a million quid next week.
Some of these people get bored when their toys cost them money and hassle to own though.
Flyingakite said:
The cars at 10-20 million just won't get driven.
SOME won’t and some will. I know of two fairly local people who regularly drive those value cars.My mate had a 5 star, Michelin starred hotel in France and a castle hotel in UK, their car parks often had owners clubs with millions of quids worth turning up.
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