This weeks Autocar - M600 in the Grip Challenge
Discussion
Can't be happy reading for Noble.
M600 ranked 6th out of 8 in their "Grip Challenge". It was cited as being a "nightmare to get the best out of" against the GT3RS in the wet - all the more surprising because the GT3 was on Pilot Cups and the M600 on Pilot Super Sports.
Not just the wet either - the M600 was the worse car for braking distance from 70mph than all the cars, with a Ford Fiesta S1600 outbraking it by some 20% shorter - not exactly a good result for something that's meant to have the best brakes out there. In the wet the Noble was some 24 meters longer than the Fiesta - frankly rather worrying for motorway speeds.
I'm no fan of the 911 series as people know, but that article really is quite suprising that a GT3 outclassed the Noble in every single aspect of the test, and the Noble posted some terrible braking results.....
J
M600 ranked 6th out of 8 in their "Grip Challenge". It was cited as being a "nightmare to get the best out of" against the GT3RS in the wet - all the more surprising because the GT3 was on Pilot Cups and the M600 on Pilot Super Sports.
Not just the wet either - the M600 was the worse car for braking distance from 70mph than all the cars, with a Ford Fiesta S1600 outbraking it by some 20% shorter - not exactly a good result for something that's meant to have the best brakes out there. In the wet the Noble was some 24 meters longer than the Fiesta - frankly rather worrying for motorway speeds.
I'm no fan of the 911 series as people know, but that article really is quite suprising that a GT3 outclassed the Noble in every single aspect of the test, and the Noble posted some terrible braking results.....
J
joust said:
I'm no fan of the 911 series as people know, but that article really is quite suprising that a GT3 outclassed the Noble in every single aspect of the test, and the Noble posted some terrible braking results.....
J
I take it when you say the GT3 out classed it in every aspect of the test, you chose not to read the wet cornering grip g's or the dry acceleration.J
The tester say's "I didnt do a great job of stopping the M600 in the dry braking tests and locked up all four wheels on my first go".
A supercar in the rain with big tyres, no driver aids, i would of put my money on it not doing great, just not sure it done as bad as you made out Justin?
jetstream said:
I take it when you say the GT3 out classed it in every aspect of the test, you chose not to read the wet cornering grip g's or the dry acceleration.
But the Renault Megan Cup and BMW M1 were better than the M600 in the wet cornering - so that's not really saying anything is it - and by their own admission in the call out in the article their cornering test wasn't exactly scientific and "not how the experts do it".jetstream said:
The tester say's "I didnt do a great job of stopping the M600 in the dry braking tests and locked up all four wheels on my first go".
And it said "the pedal is difficult to modulate" which is something that has come up a few times in tests. Given the posts on here from they guy from the brake supplier I'm guessing that brakes that are hard to modulate weren't part of the design brief?jetstream said:
A supercar in the rain with big tyres, no driver aids, i would of put my money on it not doing great, just not sure it done as bad as you made out Justin?
If it was just that part that was poor then maybe, but overall the Noble came behind the Nissan GT-R, the GT3, a BMW 1-M, and Audi RS5 and an Ariel Atom 3 Mugen.In addition, it didn't come 1st in any of the individual tests, inclucding dry conerning and dry acceleration which big tyres surely help on. It also came last in the dry braking, showing that the brakes aren't just hard to use in the wet. When it brakes from 70 mph in 15 meters longer than the best, and 6 meters worse than the 7th best car, you have to conclude something is wrong surely?
Hardly a great result is it as it only beat a Renault Megan Cup and Ford Fiesta S1600 overall.
J
Edited by joust on Monday 22 August 12:49
jetstream said:
Justin I'm not here for a debate, fact is it didn't do great, another fact is to say it got out preformed in every aspect by the GT3 is a lie, that was my point.
That's all I've got to say about it.
Fair enough. I didn't spot that it was better in the T7 and T1 test to give a a better 0.04g combined average G reading in the table, as I was more taken with the written word in the M600 section from Matt Saunders.That's all I've got to say about it.
I accept you therefore pointing that specific out.
Interestingly Autocar seem to be giving free previews of 3 zoomed in pages of their digital version for anyone that wants to read it.
http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?pub=500612953
J
The problem is Justin the M600 like our own Nobles is a drivers car and as such its not the type of car you just jump in and take to its limits , there are no driver aids to get you out of trouble and sort out the issues when you jump on the peddle , to my own mind this is what i love about my own Noble and i,m sure is the main appeal for the perspective M600 owner .
to expect a test driver to jump in a unfimiliar car and test it too the limits is just plain stupid and maskes a mockery of this type of test and confirms to me that as usual these test are not worth the paper they are printed on .
testing over a longer period of time such as Evo do gives better results .
Justin any news on your new car ? was looking forward to hearing your input . Tux
to expect a test driver to jump in a unfimiliar car and test it too the limits is just plain stupid and maskes a mockery of this type of test and confirms to me that as usual these test are not worth the paper they are printed on .
testing over a longer period of time such as Evo do gives better results .
Justin any news on your new car ? was looking forward to hearing your input . Tux
TuxMan said:
The problem is Justin the M600 like our own Nobles is a drivers car and as such its not the type of car you just jump in and take to its limits , there are no driver aids to get you out of trouble and sort out the issues when you jump on the peddle , to my own mind this is what i love about my own Noble and i,m sure is the main appeal for the perspective M600 owner .
The thing is though that this was Matt Saunders of Autocar driving it. Having had the pleasure of him "jumping in" and peddling my M400 with me as a passenger around Chobham Test track as part of the Article on the 12th August 2009, my view is that even though it was a samp and slippery track I can certainly say he is not a normal driver.He seemed very comfortable at taking the car to the limit (and certainly far beyond what I would have personally done) very quickly. For him to flat spot a set of tyres doesn't feel particularly good to me.
TuxMan said:
Justin any news on your new car ? was looking forward to hearing your input . Tux
Which one? Got three being contemplated at the moment.J
The trouble is Joust , brakes are such a personal thing and with the M600 not having abs its going to take time to get the feel right , my own car runs Pagid rs29 and they are a bit more grabby than std ive no doubt if i asked you too jump in and do a load of brake test you would probably lockup a few times .
ive followed the M600 on track and trust me the brakes are very very good !!! in the real world are these type of test any good ?
The car in question was the one with the supermodel in the piccy
ive followed the M600 on track and trust me the brakes are very very good !!! in the real world are these type of test any good ?
The car in question was the one with the supermodel in the piccy
True - but it seems part of the test was also useability, and with the M600s true competition all having anchors you can just stand on and let the computer sort it out, it's probably a valid point that Matt makes in his callout that useability was a large part of their test.
Ah - the Z1. I'm still awaiting the UK car to be delivered to Mole Valley to then take it out on a test drive.
J
Ah - the Z1. I'm still awaiting the UK car to be delivered to Mole Valley to then take it out on a test drive.
J
BobE said:
I`ve not read the article but on the braking side isn`t the M600 the only one in the test without ABS which won`t help it in the wet or dry if the brakes are applied very hard. I`m also guessing that a lot of the others also have traction control and stability control.
The article says that they did runs with and without the electronic gizmos, and recorded the best time from both settings to make up the results.J
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