Protechs with Federal RS-Rs
Discussion
Is anybody else running this setup?
I've got the latest revision Protech springs and shocks with Federal RS-R tyres all round.
I've tried a number of different setups with bump and rebound and pressures but nothing seems to stop the car bouncing about.
Pretty bad down the back roads.
I'm hoping it's not the case but I suppose I could have a dodgy shock. More trial and error required to figure it out I guess.
I've got the latest revision Protech springs and shocks with Federal RS-R tyres all round.
I've tried a number of different setups with bump and rebound and pressures but nothing seems to stop the car bouncing about.
Pretty bad down the back roads.
I'm hoping it's not the case but I suppose I could have a dodgy shock. More trial and error required to figure it out I guess.
Yes - I am running this set up (not sure if they are the 'latest revision' Protechs). Did you see the thread a while ago that confirmed the settings Tux recommended were reversed? I've ended up using 9 clicks clockwise on rebound, 5 bump front and 6 bump rear I think. Can confirm once I get back to the car.
Dom.
Dom.
anotherdom said:
Yes - I am running this set up (not sure if they are the 'latest revision' Protechs). Did you see the thread a while ago that confirmed the settings Tux recommended were reversed? I've ended up using 9 clicks clockwise on rebound, 5 bump front and 6 bump rear I think. Can confirm once I get back to the car.
Dom.
Excellent Dom, I was beginning to think I was the only one with Federals. What pressures do you run for road and track ?Dom.
i run federal 595RSR with protechs,can be a little bit bouncy on standard road settings.
bound = black
rebound = red
Tux settings(reversed)
black 5 front, 6 rear
red 7 front, 8 rear
my settings
Tyre pressure 18 front, 21 rear
black 7 front, 8 rear
red 8 front, 9 rear
As was mentioned Simon got the red and black mixed up, but even when reveresed it seemed a bit bouncy to me so i went a bit harder on the bound(black), i probably could get away with notching the rebound back one as i am not getting any return bounce.
Just check each corner, as these things tend to come unscrewed and the cap tube pops out internally and also the air bags are not very strong so they burst, even if it has turned 30 deg then the cap tube will have bent and pulled out of the gland. So what you have to do is turn black all the way to 0 and bounce the car, then turn it all the way to 13 and you should see it is significantly more difficult to bounce the car, if it appeatrs to bounce the same as it did on 0 then you know the cap tube has come out internally, this also causes the car to flaot which makes it feel very bouncy but lolling from side to side like you would feel on a boat.
I need to send my fronts back to protech to be dynoed as when they fixed the faulty one its is now running differently to the one on the other side which was giving me that being on a boat feeling, i know it is this because when i crank up the red and black on the side i think is weakest, then the problems goes away.
So don't automatically assume that they are all working at the same strength, you may also need to adjust a click from side to side aswell as front to back.
i have spent many hours trying to sort these things out and i still have to find time to take them off the front again as a pair and send em for re-dynoing, but hats off to Protech they are very helpful when you get a problem, and they sort it out without complaint or fuss and you also get the option of cranking the black all the way up to 13 for track days, and they are a much cheaper option..
bound = black
rebound = red
Tux settings(reversed)
black 5 front, 6 rear
red 7 front, 8 rear
my settings
Tyre pressure 18 front, 21 rear
black 7 front, 8 rear
red 8 front, 9 rear
As was mentioned Simon got the red and black mixed up, but even when reveresed it seemed a bit bouncy to me so i went a bit harder on the bound(black), i probably could get away with notching the rebound back one as i am not getting any return bounce.
Just check each corner, as these things tend to come unscrewed and the cap tube pops out internally and also the air bags are not very strong so they burst, even if it has turned 30 deg then the cap tube will have bent and pulled out of the gland. So what you have to do is turn black all the way to 0 and bounce the car, then turn it all the way to 13 and you should see it is significantly more difficult to bounce the car, if it appeatrs to bounce the same as it did on 0 then you know the cap tube has come out internally, this also causes the car to flaot which makes it feel very bouncy but lolling from side to side like you would feel on a boat.
I need to send my fronts back to protech to be dynoed as when they fixed the faulty one its is now running differently to the one on the other side which was giving me that being on a boat feeling, i know it is this because when i crank up the red and black on the side i think is weakest, then the problems goes away.
So don't automatically assume that they are all working at the same strength, you may also need to adjust a click from side to side aswell as front to back.
i have spent many hours trying to sort these things out and i still have to find time to take them off the front again as a pair and send em for re-dynoing, but hats off to Protech they are very helpful when you get a problem, and they sort it out without complaint or fuss and you also get the option of cranking the black all the way up to 13 for track days, and they are a much cheaper option..
Chris let's not get into what happened with your damper's shall we ???
Craig all damper sets are dyno 'd into matched sets when they are built , your dampers we very soft when Matt drive the car so he has changed your setup to 8 clicks black 6 clicks red front and rear which is the std setup , did you stiffen for Rockingham ? I don't think your car is bouncing its just following the contours of the road , Matt at Jetstream confirmed the settings he changed to felt much better but that's only because that's the way he likes it !!! Use the base settings and Tweeks in small amounts it's all down to how you prefer it , feel free to give me a call if you want to go through the setup .
Tux
Craig all damper sets are dyno 'd into matched sets when they are built , your dampers we very soft when Matt drive the car so he has changed your setup to 8 clicks black 6 clicks red front and rear which is the std setup , did you stiffen for Rockingham ? I don't think your car is bouncing its just following the contours of the road , Matt at Jetstream confirmed the settings he changed to felt much better but that's only because that's the way he likes it !!! Use the base settings and Tweeks in small amounts it's all down to how you prefer it , feel free to give me a call if you want to go through the setup .
Tux
Thanks Tux,
8 and 6 were not how it was setup when I checked on Sunday by the way.
I think RED (rebound) was on 7 and the setup wasn't uniform around the car.
I did speak to Matt and clicked up the rears 2 notches for track.
What I find is that the back bounces up and pushes the front down too much which on b-roads makes me cringe as it appears the front is going to ground out.
For the sake of argument, I'll start with a standard 8 and 6 setup all round and play from their.
Good point Chris is making, I'll compare them from 0 and 12 to make sure nothing untoward.
8 and 6 were not how it was setup when I checked on Sunday by the way.
I think RED (rebound) was on 7 and the setup wasn't uniform around the car.
I did speak to Matt and clicked up the rears 2 notches for track.
What I find is that the back bounces up and pushes the front down too much which on b-roads makes me cringe as it appears the front is going to ground out.
For the sake of argument, I'll start with a standard 8 and 6 setup all round and play from their.
Good point Chris is making, I'll compare them from 0 and 12 to make sure nothing untoward.
Hi Craig , might be worth getting the car corner weighted as well as this can make quite a difference .
Beware of stiffening too much as this can effect both traction and braking , the reason I did not go too stiff with the spring rates was to keep some element of comfort , on sunday I ran 12 clicks on black and 10 clicks on red ,on the way home I had to stop and soften them and my teeth hurt : D
Beware of stiffening too much as this can effect both traction and braking , the reason I did not go too stiff with the spring rates was to keep some element of comfort , on sunday I ran 12 clicks on black and 10 clicks on red ,on the way home I had to stop and soften them and my teeth hurt : D
swankBaton said:
splitpin said:
Perhaps you guys need to invest in some better quality and probably three-way dampers?
How would three-ways help , if at all? That said, the actual quality of the damper is probably singularly the most important thing as a starting point and from my point of view, top-drawer manufacturers like Ohlins and Koni immediately spring to mind. When I say that, I mean absolutely no disrespect to the likes of Protech, AVO etc; they make darn good products for darn good prices, whereas the likes of O & K make top notch stuff for which they charge like a wounded rhino; all well and good if you actually need and can afford them, obviously a waste of money if you don't. Whereas I don't, you guys will obviously know your Nobles well enough to know whether or not they are in need of such 'weapons-grade' suspension components - I just made the comment as a possible assist, probably mostly because I detest 'bouncy and/or floaty' sports cars. Whether on the road or on the track, you can't beat the feel of a car that's 'properly planted' at both ends.
The beauty of 2 way adjustable damping is that you can set it up as you want.... The draw back is that you might not know how to set it up as you want lol
The rebound (red) is what will stop the car bouncing.... On my car I have to have the rebound wound right up to close to max on rear and pretty high on the front.... They may well have adjusted the spec a little to make it more in the middle but fact is once it's set it doesn't change regarless of road or track.
You need to turn both to fully soft all round the car then bounce the rear of the car and gradually click the rear rebound (red and both sides at same time) up until it stops doing a return bounce ie it's only spring up and not back down again... Once you reach this give it a single click more then repeat on the front.
Once this is done record what you have set the rebound to and that's the setting for your car and should not change.
The car shouldn't bounce around on any bump (black) setting now but just need tweaking harder or softer to suit.... I run mine right from halfway to fully hard on road depending on my mood lol.
This is only my method but I'd recommend you give it a try as their is no guarantee other people's settings are correct for you car and you have paid for adjustable suspension so would be a crime against Tuxman if you don't set them up properly lol
I admit I have spent silly money on my car and not really skimped anywhere... I could have spent 3 times the money on dampers but so far I've found protecs more than up to the job and are way better on both the road and track than my stock suspension when they are set up correctly.
The rebound (red) is what will stop the car bouncing.... On my car I have to have the rebound wound right up to close to max on rear and pretty high on the front.... They may well have adjusted the spec a little to make it more in the middle but fact is once it's set it doesn't change regarless of road or track.
You need to turn both to fully soft all round the car then bounce the rear of the car and gradually click the rear rebound (red and both sides at same time) up until it stops doing a return bounce ie it's only spring up and not back down again... Once you reach this give it a single click more then repeat on the front.
Once this is done record what you have set the rebound to and that's the setting for your car and should not change.
The car shouldn't bounce around on any bump (black) setting now but just need tweaking harder or softer to suit.... I run mine right from halfway to fully hard on road depending on my mood lol.
This is only my method but I'd recommend you give it a try as their is no guarantee other people's settings are correct for you car and you have paid for adjustable suspension so would be a crime against Tuxman if you don't set them up properly lol
I admit I have spent silly money on my car and not really skimped anywhere... I could have spent 3 times the money on dampers but so far I've found protecs more than up to the job and are way better on both the road and track than my stock suspension when they are set up correctly.
Edited by andygtt on Wednesday 12th September 17:09
TuxMan said:
Chris let's not get into what happened with your damper's shall we ???
Tux
The OP is asking for people with RSR and protech and settings!!Tux
im just pointing out that they can come unscrewed and is something to check for, as its not something that is visible or easy to check for due to the strength of the springs. This is due to the dampers being installed upside down, when you try to compress the springs the casing can unscrew at the same time and internal damage is not visible as even a small twist and make the cap tube pop out internally.
My advice is no detrement to you or the suspension in general, and gagging orders are not necessary, the forums are for helpful discussion and i believe my advice could be helpful, as it was when i pointed out that the red and black were the wrong way round which helped many people, this was also something i found out along the way with the problems i had, so i think i am justified as my advice has helped many with the problems and complaints they have been having with the protechs, and therefore helped you.
I did not bad mouth anybody i actually highly commended the dampers and the service from protech..
I agree with what you are saying about them being dynoed to match and thats the only reason i said i was sending mine back as a pair, as just having one done at a time did not work.
I will reiterate the protechs are good, they are adjustable, the service is great, they are very reasonably priced, they just need a bit of knowledge and playing with the get set up as each set although matching within that set can have different resistance to another matching set.
I have considered building a damper dyno, most of them just oscilate back and forth a set stroke and a set frequency and measure reistance. My design uses a linear actuator so you can simulate something like a lap of the ring or lemans for example. In theory if i know the weight of each corner i can set a damper for best performance if i have simulation data. However the cost of building one may be prohibative :-(
andygtt said:
The beauty of 2 way adjustable damping is that you can set it up as you want.... The draw back is that you might not know how to set it up as you want lol
Interestingly the chassis dynamics stuff I've read advises adjusting bump first, aiming to minimise walking, and then adjusting rebound to balance corner entry 'poise'. Definitely a black art, and as for 3-way dampers - I really dont need anything else to adjust! Running too much rebound can cause the car to jack down, eventually hitting the stops. Presumably this hasn't caused you an issue?Dom.
anotherdom said:
Thanks Chris - another mystery solved. I'd be much better off if I trusted my own arse and the accelerometer rather than what everyone else is running!
Lol I'm the opposite, i need to get somebody who really knows what they are talking about to test drive my car and let me know what they think the setting should be, I set it up by seat of the pants but I still have that uncertainty until I get a second opinion, I suppose its down to personal preference but when you have been playing with settings so long, you forget where you started..lolR0162 said:
Lol I'm the opposite, i need to get somebody who really knows what they are talking about to test drive my car and let me know what they think the setting should be, I set it up by seat of the pants but I still have that uncertainty until I get a second opinion, I suppose its down to personal preference but when you have been playing with settings so long, you forget where you started..lol
Lol think that's where I'm at too. I've only just noticed that the adjustments go up to 13 and not 12 so when I've been counting back (anti clockwise) its been wrong anyway.I'm also going to check that I have the bigger shocks/springs on the rear too.
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