Discussion
Hi,
can anyone point me towards buying advice for a M12 GTO please?
General checks are understood, but what else should I look for respective to the M12 please?
A number for sale seem to have the floor removed, replaced and re-sealed. What's that all about? Is it normal for turbos / manifolds to need replacement?
Here's a case in point re both the above - does anyone know this car please?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
Thanks,
Ben.
can anyone point me towards buying advice for a M12 GTO please?
General checks are understood, but what else should I look for respective to the M12 please?
A number for sale seem to have the floor removed, replaced and re-sealed. What's that all about? Is it normal for turbos / manifolds to need replacement?
Here's a case in point re both the above - does anyone know this car please?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
Thanks,
Ben.
Some judicious use of google will answer a lot of the questions you asked...
The floor is sheet metal rivetted onto the chassis rails. The rivets corrode and can pop out and water will ingress unless the floor is removed and resealed. I would definitely not buy a car that has not had this done at some point in its life.
Normal for manifolds to crack especially the front manifold as it gets very hot and has the weight of the turbo hanging off it. Be sure to check both manifolds for cracks on any inspection you carry out. Turbos won't last forever so don't be alarmed if these have been reconditioned or replaced. Be sure to check the dampers aren't leaking fluid or past their best as again this is common on the older cars.
Ensure the car has the trackday sump, plus the Quaife LSD fitted. Early cars were fitted with the 5-speed with an open diff which will get chewed up and spat out pretty quick.
Check that the exhaust mounts are not rotten. Check that the chassis rails are not overly corroded.
Early cars were fitted with a Magnetti Marelli ECU which is pony. Make sure the car has the newer MBE ECU fitted as if it hasn't it is an expensive (and necessary fix).
If possible get any prospective car checked over by one of the trusted garages such as Jetstream. There is plenty that can go wrong with these cars and if you don't know what you're looking for it can be a minefield. Don't believe the rubbish about reliability. The standard (or near standard power) cars with all the common issues addressed can be very reliable if cared for properly.
The car you posted looks OK at first glance.
There are many owners around and I'm sure someone would be happy to show you around their car if you are local to anyone here. Any more questions about specific cars out there just ask
The floor is sheet metal rivetted onto the chassis rails. The rivets corrode and can pop out and water will ingress unless the floor is removed and resealed. I would definitely not buy a car that has not had this done at some point in its life.
Normal for manifolds to crack especially the front manifold as it gets very hot and has the weight of the turbo hanging off it. Be sure to check both manifolds for cracks on any inspection you carry out. Turbos won't last forever so don't be alarmed if these have been reconditioned or replaced. Be sure to check the dampers aren't leaking fluid or past their best as again this is common on the older cars.
Ensure the car has the trackday sump, plus the Quaife LSD fitted. Early cars were fitted with the 5-speed with an open diff which will get chewed up and spat out pretty quick.
Check that the exhaust mounts are not rotten. Check that the chassis rails are not overly corroded.
Early cars were fitted with a Magnetti Marelli ECU which is pony. Make sure the car has the newer MBE ECU fitted as if it hasn't it is an expensive (and necessary fix).
If possible get any prospective car checked over by one of the trusted garages such as Jetstream. There is plenty that can go wrong with these cars and if you don't know what you're looking for it can be a minefield. Don't believe the rubbish about reliability. The standard (or near standard power) cars with all the common issues addressed can be very reliable if cared for properly.
The car you posted looks OK at first glance.
There are many owners around and I'm sure someone would be happy to show you around their car if you are local to anyone here. Any more questions about specific cars out there just ask
All M12s are reaching the age cliff in my opinion. You will need to dig deep into your pockets if the car is standard with nothing changed. Look for a car that has had a bit of work done. The floor, the turbos, manifolds, brakes, radiator, alternator, wheels. They all need TLC.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Hi Ben , looks a nice car and at a very good price !! Sounds like its been well looked after as well , James at South West Lotus Center is a top bloke give him a call to get more details on the car
Make sure the car has a track day sump as there is none available at the moment . Good luck .
Tux
Make sure the car has a track day sump as there is none available at the moment . Good luck .
Tux
Edited by TuxMan on Saturday 15th September 07:34
Ben, reading the above one could be driven to think that Nobles are bags of bolts! Just use the same process and common sense path you'd use when buying any motor. Noble's are no different to other (sports) cars. I don't agree with the earlier comment about buying cars only that have been modded (apart from the LSD and the later ECU fitment) and the floors just need inspecting (as you'd any car, right?!).
Good luck in your search...
to think that Nobles are bags of bolts! Just use the same process and common sense path you'd use when buying any motor. Noble's are no different to other (sports) cars. I don't agree with the earlier comment about buying cars only that have been modded (apart from the LSD and the later ECU fitment) and the floors just need inspecting (as you'd any car, right?!).Good luck in your search...
Would agree with AMG and speak with Phil or James for their opinion. Code says it's Newport area, there are some Noble owners around that area that might be able to help. Disagree they are coming to an age cliff, but know what's being said, just need to know what areas to check etc etc
To be clear what I mean by age cliff. The cars are at least 7 years old if not the majority are older. It should be expected that things are past their best and will need changing sooner rather than later.
I've owned two. One from new and one in the last 2 years. Both, either from new or old have given me grief out of warranty.
They are fantastic cars but I don't think we should paint a picture that they just start and go everytime.
I just spent £2500 on mine getting stuff done and within 24 hours the exhaust bracket was broken. The car had just been inspected and serviced.
Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
I've owned two. One from new and one in the last 2 years. Both, either from new or old have given me grief out of warranty.
They are fantastic cars but I don't think we should paint a picture that they just start and go everytime.
I just spent £2500 on mine getting stuff done and within 24 hours the exhaust bracket was broken. The car had just been inspected and serviced.
Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
Edited by Lucozade on Saturday 15th September 11:14
When I bought mine a lot of people on this forum gave some very good advice (which made me buy a 3.0) but I didn't want to buy a world of trouble.
You will be taking a punt buying a handmade supercar over a mainstream built car, I can only give my input based on the six years I've owned mine. The car on the advert looks very similar to the spec of mine and is the same age. There are some very basic upgrades which should have already been done, but the need to have all the bits on Lucozade's post renewed just isn't the case. If you are going to track your car then be prepared to open your wallet, also cars that have large engine upgrades will need much more upkeep.
With this car I would check it has had the fan upgrade (full cowel and two fans), TDS (if tracked), fuel pump wiring upgraded, if it is 5 speed then see if it has the LSD. My car is on 32k still with the original open diff but if I was buying now I'd want one with this done as it is expensive to do. The condition of the chassis should be very carefully inspected as this can corrode badly, especially if the car has been used over the winter.
The floor reseal, fuel pump wiring and hub nut upgrades are all pretty cheap, turbos can be refurbed and a lot of the parts aren't too expensive. That said once you have the bug it's hard not to get carried away with wanting more power!
My car has only had routine servicing, a battery, rear wheel bearing / hub, a couple of bulbs, turbo acuators and a Yellowshed remap in the six or so years of ownership. This winter it will be having all of the chassis repainted, heatproofing renewed and the floor resealed. The car does have an easy life though and no track use.
Reading through past threads some of the bills for work have been eye watering and if you start modifying then the sky is the limit. Are you able to look after the car yourself or will you be using a garage? I did start a Wiki thread on reliability so go back a few weeks and hopefully there is some more info on there.
I would also get an expert to look over a potential car before you buy, it could save you a fortune. I would make sure it's not rusty, not been crashed, has good history (try to speak to previous owners if poss) and put aside a few grand just in case. At £22k it does look a great buy on the face of it.
Thanks for the continued helpful advice. I am very much a hands on owner as well as driver. Within the confines of a modest single garage I'm happy to tackle ancillary work and upkeep. I brought my Griffith back from a poor state so I have a fair idea of what I would be letting myself in for. If I'm honest, for me, getting hands on is at least half the fun. The issues discussed, including rust are very similar those on contemporary and older tvrs. I'll keep you posted on any developments.
Hi Ben there are a few owners that are very hands on , I have rebuilt my own completely over the last 4 years with great success !! They are easy to work on as with the rear clam removed there is great access to the engine also plenty of great advice and support on the forum . Jetstream Motorsport have a nice 3 litre car if you are interested . Pm for more details .
Tux
Tux
Whoops. Phone doing funny things. Thanks for the continued helpful advice. I am very much a hands on owner as well as driver. Within the confines of a modest single garage I'm happy to tackle ancillary work and upkeep. I brought my Griffith back from a poor state so I have a fair idea of what I would be letting myself in for. If I'm honest, for me, getting hands on is at least half the fun. The issues discussed, including rust are very similar those on contemporary and older tvrs. I'll keep you posted on any developments.
Edited by griffter on Monday 17th September 10:07
This type of car will be perfect for you then, i also thik doing the mods and improvements is half the fun, so i have had a lot of fun with this car.
When sorted they are amazing, i keep mine well maintained and it is reliable trouble free motoring, they are just not a car that you can drive and be ignorant to the mechanicals of the car.
But parts are so cheap, i did the hubs and wheel bearing the other day and it cost £70 per corner..i think the most expensive thing on servicing my car is the cost of the racing oil.
I replaced the clutch on mine and upgraded the gearbox, i have also done a few power upgrades, but the engine has never been out and still going very strong.
The list of things you can upgrade and never ending(thats the fun)
but the essential fixes without moving into the realm of upgrades are a handful.
You need to think about what you want, then you can choose the right car, because if you start with the wrong model you will be surprised how much money you will plow into bring it up to a higher spec..then there are the upgrades on top which it sounds you are the type of person to get the bug..;)
When sorted they are amazing, i keep mine well maintained and it is reliable trouble free motoring, they are just not a car that you can drive and be ignorant to the mechanicals of the car.
But parts are so cheap, i did the hubs and wheel bearing the other day and it cost £70 per corner..i think the most expensive thing on servicing my car is the cost of the racing oil.
I replaced the clutch on mine and upgraded the gearbox, i have also done a few power upgrades, but the engine has never been out and still going very strong.
The list of things you can upgrade and never ending(thats the fun)
but the essential fixes without moving into the realm of upgrades are a handful.
You need to think about what you want, then you can choose the right car, because if you start with the wrong model you will be surprised how much money you will plow into bring it up to a higher spec..then there are the upgrades on top which it sounds you are the type of person to get the bug..;)
Bit of an update. Thanks for the pointers and the mention of specific cars for sale.
I'm fact-finding at the moment. If I found the 'right' car at a trader I might investigate an exchange but to have a proper look at the market and a realistic choice I will need to sell before I buy.
So the more I read about, the better my preference develops. I'm a classic enthusiast really (with a strong inclination towards hand-built British sports cars despite my current German iron) and as such I always have a soft spot for the first of a breed. I must say a sorted 2.5 with the necessary upgrades (and there's a lovely blue one here: http://www.autofficina.co.uk/used_car_noble_m12_co... ) is really tempting. With upgrades is a 2.5 much different to a GTO-3?
And then of course there's the 3R. How many of the upgrades does the 3R have from factory over the GTO-3? ECU? LSD? I like the look of the 3R but of course they have a premium over the GTO-3. And then this pops up literally down the road from me: http://www.landroverbreaker.com/moreinfo.asp?pid=3...
It's on PH at £22500 with repair work by Simpson's Motorsport. These guys are very well regarded motorsport and Ferrari engineers. I think it's probably punt too far, although it seems an exchange might be feasible.
Finally, the Wiki links don't work - so with the tunnel mod and the fuel pump wiring, what am I looking for? How do I tell if it's been done?
Thanks.
I'm fact-finding at the moment. If I found the 'right' car at a trader I might investigate an exchange but to have a proper look at the market and a realistic choice I will need to sell before I buy.
So the more I read about, the better my preference develops. I'm a classic enthusiast really (with a strong inclination towards hand-built British sports cars despite my current German iron) and as such I always have a soft spot for the first of a breed. I must say a sorted 2.5 with the necessary upgrades (and there's a lovely blue one here: http://www.autofficina.co.uk/used_car_noble_m12_co... ) is really tempting. With upgrades is a 2.5 much different to a GTO-3?
And then of course there's the 3R. How many of the upgrades does the 3R have from factory over the GTO-3? ECU? LSD? I like the look of the 3R but of course they have a premium over the GTO-3. And then this pops up literally down the road from me: http://www.landroverbreaker.com/moreinfo.asp?pid=3...
It's on PH at £22500 with repair work by Simpson's Motorsport. These guys are very well regarded motorsport and Ferrari engineers. I think it's probably punt too far, although it seems an exchange might be feasible.
Finally, the Wiki links don't work - so with the tunnel mod and the fuel pump wiring, what am I looking for? How do I tell if it's been done?
Thanks.
All 3.0 cars have the MBE ECU, I suspect most 2.5 cars now have this sorted though. The LSD only relates to the 5-speeders although 3 & 3Rs seem to have either depending on build, a diff is available for around £700 but it's the labour to fix which is expensive. Fuel pump wiring is only a few quid and the tunnel mod isn't critical, mine doesn't have it but doesn't suffer badly from tunnel heat. (I suspect on track it probably would more though). Again it's not a huge job to do and plenty have done it DIY.
If you are looking at the cat D I'd want to have full pictures / reports of the crash damage and also of the repairs. I suspect it's a bit more than superficial clam damage.
If you are looking at the cat D I'd want to have full pictures / reports of the crash damage and also of the repairs. I suspect it's a bit more than superficial clam damage.
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