m12 gto3 v. 911 4s
Discussion
interesting lunch... guy at work bought an m12 at the weekend. we went for a hoon at lunch time - him in his british bulldog and me in my german messsshhhherrrrssshhhmmmmit.
consider the statistics:
noble 0-60 3.8 secs
porker 0-60 5 secs
clearly his car is quicker. no getting away from it. but i was surprised how well i managed to keep up, and more importantly how slowly he did get away from me. i thought he would quickly become a blip on the horizon. but no!
it would be interesting to see track times from a top notch driver taking my car round a TWISTY track and his car round the same track. i bet the difference would not be that much...
however the complete package of my car meant that whilst keeping up with him in quite a resepectable manner, I was also able to listen to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 talking about the Countryside Alliance. Whereas I believe said noble driver is in the gents currently changing his underwear and is suffering from mild tinitus...
i put up a post yesterday about the drive i had in the noble (as a passenger) and compared it to the 911 gt2. the more i think about it, the more i do not know why you would buy one over a noble. consider this: typical used gt2 costs £90k. decent noble costs £40k (what guy at worked paid). with the change from £90k you could buy a very respectable used 911 and have the best of both worlds....
seems like a no brainer. time to start knocking into the house to make the garage bigger....
d'oh!
consider the statistics:
noble 0-60 3.8 secs
porker 0-60 5 secs
clearly his car is quicker. no getting away from it. but i was surprised how well i managed to keep up, and more importantly how slowly he did get away from me. i thought he would quickly become a blip on the horizon. but no!
it would be interesting to see track times from a top notch driver taking my car round a TWISTY track and his car round the same track. i bet the difference would not be that much...
however the complete package of my car meant that whilst keeping up with him in quite a resepectable manner, I was also able to listen to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 talking about the Countryside Alliance. Whereas I believe said noble driver is in the gents currently changing his underwear and is suffering from mild tinitus...
i put up a post yesterday about the drive i had in the noble (as a passenger) and compared it to the 911 gt2. the more i think about it, the more i do not know why you would buy one over a noble. consider this: typical used gt2 costs £90k. decent noble costs £40k (what guy at worked paid). with the change from £90k you could buy a very respectable used 911 and have the best of both worlds....
seems like a no brainer. time to start knocking into the house to make the garage bigger....
d'oh!
Hmm.... this reminds me of a recent comparison between the M3 and the M3 CSL. Can't remember where I read it, it might even have been on here. On paper there is a negligible difference (apart from the Price column), but on track the difference is enormous.
You've hit the nail on the head with the radio thing though. It all about use and attitude. The porker is a comfortable powerful sports tourer. The Noble is a bare ass racing car in comparison.
Then it comes to fun, and what the individual prefers. The noble is hoot, no two ways about it. It's a rocket ship that commands attention and turns heads at every corner. The C4S might as well be a fleet saloon in that light!
Conclusion, as you said... bigger garage and have both!
You've hit the nail on the head with the radio thing though. It all about use and attitude. The porker is a comfortable powerful sports tourer. The Noble is a bare ass racing car in comparison.
Then it comes to fun, and what the individual prefers. The noble is hoot, no two ways about it. It's a rocket ship that commands attention and turns heads at every corner. The C4S might as well be a fleet saloon in that light!
Conclusion, as you said... bigger garage and have both!
In Autocar didn't the M400 stuff the 911 GT3 RS by 1.6 seconds a lap (of Brands indy circuit)? Just from memory so I might be wrong.
The question is what would a 3R or classic would do.
On the road its always surprising how much faster you be to give the impression you're much faster (if you see what I mean).
>> Edited by ThatPhilBrettGuy on Tuesday 21st September 14:58
The question is what would a 3R or classic would do.
On the road its always surprising how much faster you be to give the impression you're much faster (if you see what I mean).
>> Edited by ThatPhilBrettGuy on Tuesday 21st September 14:58
911nutter said:
On the road its always surprising how much faster you be to give the impression you're much faster (if you see what I mean).
errrrrrrrr........no. please expand????
If you have a car that's 10 seconds to 60 v a car that's 8 seconds, to the drivers there appears to be little difference. 10secs v 5secs and it's very obvious.
So I'm basically say the yes the Noble is quicker but not THAT much quicker (ooo me head).
Also, one thing to remember is that the faster the car, the harder it is to reproduce the times. I bet a slow car can get to within a small % of it book figures quite easily.
One last thing. It's much easier to chase.
Sorry, I'm not being very eloquent today.
[quote=ThatPhilBrettGuy]In Autocar didn't the M400 stuff the 911 GT3 RS by 1.6 seconds a lap (of Brands indy circuit)? Just from memory so I might be wrong.
The question is what would a 3R or classic would do.
Correct -In Autocar M400 drubs 911 GT3RS by 1.6 sec a lap round short Brands Indy circuit (1.2 miles). Let me see .. that's, oh, just a 32 sec victory in a 20 lap race.
EVO Dec 2003 - GTO 3R stuffs 911 GT3 by 0.8sec a lap round Bedford Autodrome West circuit. So that'll be about a 16 sec victory over the 20 lap race.
Quite simply thats pulling Porkers trousers down and giving them a jolly good spanking.
Good job they can listen to Radio 2....
The question is what would a 3R or classic would do.
Correct -In Autocar M400 drubs 911 GT3RS by 1.6 sec a lap round short Brands Indy circuit (1.2 miles). Let me see .. that's, oh, just a 32 sec victory in a 20 lap race.
EVO Dec 2003 - GTO 3R stuffs 911 GT3 by 0.8sec a lap round Bedford Autodrome West circuit. So that'll be about a 16 sec victory over the 20 lap race.
Quite simply thats pulling Porkers trousers down and giving them a jolly good spanking.
Good job they can listen to Radio 2....
[quote=robp}Quite simply thats pulling Porkers trousers down and giving them a jolly good spanking.
Good job they can listen to Radio 2....[/quote]
I followed one the other day (an S4 or something, who knows eh?) on the A128 between Ongar and Kelvedon Hatch. I dropped back quite a bit as I thought the 911 (or what ever) was field bound. To be fair, he only had one or two moments (and in places that would only effect him, he obviously knew the road) but what surprised me was how easy it felt for me.
Another observation. I've driven numerous 911's (went out with a Girl who had a Turbo one. Now that was scary. The car not the girl! Then again, thinking about it...). Anyway, I've found you seem to get more of a sensation of speed in them that the Noble. Odd. The Noble's much lower but 'feels' slower, when I'd expect the opposite to be true.
Rob. I notice you've go a rather tasty Lotus. How do you compare the two in terms of the sensation of speed V actual speed?
Good job they can listen to Radio 2....[/quote]
I followed one the other day (an S4 or something, who knows eh?) on the A128 between Ongar and Kelvedon Hatch. I dropped back quite a bit as I thought the 911 (or what ever) was field bound. To be fair, he only had one or two moments (and in places that would only effect him, he obviously knew the road) but what surprised me was how easy it felt for me.
Another observation. I've driven numerous 911's (went out with a Girl who had a Turbo one. Now that was scary. The car not the girl! Then again, thinking about it...). Anyway, I've found you seem to get more of a sensation of speed in them that the Noble. Odd. The Noble's much lower but 'feels' slower, when I'd expect the opposite to be true.
Rob. I notice you've go a rather tasty Lotus. How do you compare the two in terms of the sensation of speed V actual speed?
Notwithstanding all the Noble v Porker comments here - isn't it great that a small car manufacturer with a 2 year old product line is constantly being compared to a 35 year old product line with gazzilions of DM's having been spent on R&D to "perfect it"! :-)
PS - wouldn't the Stuttgart high command laugh at Lee Noble's development container parked alongside the factory - precious!!! LOL
>> Edited by amg merc on Thursday 23 September 09:36
PS - wouldn't the Stuttgart high command laugh at Lee Noble's development container parked alongside the factory - precious!!! LOL
>> Edited by amg merc on Thursday 23 September 09:36
911nutter said:
the only real problem with the noble - as we've discussed in the office - is that it's a bit... well.... essex.
Yes, I know what you mean. Porsches are for small / fat / balding bankers, 'rarries for footballers, Mercs for Indian restuarant owners and BMW's for their sons.
Joking aside, 911's are really impressive bits of kit now. I just wanted something a bit different.
Cheers
Phil
Last year when I went down to LeMans in my Elise, one of my mates brought his new 911 4S. This year I went in my GTO 3R. He still had the 911 4S. He is now looking at trading in his 911 for a Ruf Turbo. I believe this to be a higher spec 911. But, whatever it is, he wants to get back to the 2003 differential.
There's more...
Another mate had a Stradale whilst I had the Elise.
Along comes the GTO 3R. The Stradale's gone and he's traded up.
Conclusion.
I'm gonna need an M500.
There's more...
Another mate had a Stradale whilst I had the Elise.
Along comes the GTO 3R. The Stradale's gone and he's traded up.
Conclusion.
I'm gonna need an M500.
crb1 said:
Last year when I went down to LeMans in my Elise, one of my mates brought his new 911 4S. This year I went in my GTO 3R. He still had the 911 4S. He is now looking at trading in his 911 for a Ruf Turbo. I believe this to be a higher spec 911. But, whatever it is, he wants to get back to the 2003 differential.
There's more...
Another mate had a Stradale whilst I had the Elise.
Along comes the GTO 3R. The Stradale's gone and he's traded up.
Conclusion.
I'm gonna need an M500.
I think you might need an M900 if you want to keep up with a Ruf Turbo. IIRC they do 2 power options. The top one will take the car to about 230 mph while the lower spec will only reach a piffling 217 mph.
One PH'er (Adam?) has one and took it to the V-Max at Bruntingthorpe earlier this year and hit over 200 in it.
Anyone here go to that and have a go in it?
Davey S1 said:
Last year when I went down to LeMans in my Elise, one of my mates brought his new 911 4S. This year I went in my GTO 3R. He still had the 911 4S. He is now looking at trading in his 911 for a Ruf Turbo. I believe this to be a higher spec 911. But, whatever it is, he wants to get back to the 2003 differential.
There's more...
Another mate had a Stradale whilst I had the Elise.
Along comes the GTO 3R. The Stradale's gone and he's traded up.
Conclusion.
I'm gonna need an M500.
I think you might need an M900 if you want to keep up with a Ruf Turbo. IIRC they do 2 power options. The top one will take the car to about 230 mph while the lower spec will only reach a piffling 217 mph.
One PH'er (Adam?) has one and took it to the V-Max at Bruntingthorpe earlier this year and hit over 200 in it.
Anyone here go to that and have a go in it?
AdamT I think you mean (they have a number of 911's) -his father took me for a blast in the Ruf-R Turbo and about a 192 I think from memory - speedo was reading 210 ish....
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Rob. I notice you've go a rather tasty Lotus. How do you compare the two in terms of the sensation of speed V actual speed?
Phil - yeah it's a cracker. Super rather than turbo charged and mapped to give very linear power delivery (like the original car). This means you don't get the kick in the back from monster torque (as per 3R)when you floor it- rather the power and speed just seem to build continuosly (and very quickly!). 0-62 comes up in 4.2sec and 100 in ~11.5secs. Respectable for a 1.8l Elise! The Lotus feels 'quicker' than the 3R at any equivalent speed upto about 70. This means it's a real hoot to drive on the road (ie feels you're going alot faster than you really are). Maybe related to suspension set-up - the 3R has such sublime damping that 60mph on A/B roads feels like you're just pootling. However, when it comes to overtaking the 3R is peerless as everyone here knows - drop a cog,foot down, tense neck muscles, and grin.....
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