Considering an M12...
Discussion
I've been away from PH for some years, but am now in a position to consider my next toy.
After 12 years with my beloved Chimaera 500 I'm now moving on, so having emptied my garage I'm considering what to get next.
Three options are so far on my shortlist, and although I'd be happy to consider other options, I know which way this forum would swing:
1. BMW Z4 35i DCT. circa £20k - £23k 4 years old. Sensible option with no drama. Everything works at the touch of a button. Hood down in seconds. Aircon works, servicing/running costs (relatively) cheap etc etc, 3ltr twin turbo upgradable from 300 bhp to 375bhp. But will I be bored in 3 years and recover just £10k?
2. TVR Tuscan Mk2. circa £25k - £28k 2005. More of what I know. Love the Mk2 styling. Great performance but worried about buying a Speed 6.
3. GTO-3R. circa £25k - £30k. From my limited research I think I want the 3R features - leather, 6sp g'box, 3ltr, faired headlights. Here's where I need help please.
i. What common upgrades should I look for? I'd rather get something already sorted than chase getting it up to spec. (oily rather than cosmetic upgrades)
ii. Where should I be looking price-wise? I'm not quite at the budget listed above and don't want to borrow too much.
iii. Are M12s better than TVR in terms of chassis protection? Do you waxoyl them & are they powder coated?
iv. Any other gems of info you'd recommend to a newbe.
v. Are there any well sorted examples out there worth chasing (although I'm not quite in a position to jump just yet).
Colour is important. I don't want blue, or green and not sure about silver. Love the colour of the aubergine 2.5 in the classifieds. Interior must be tidy.
Sorry if these queries get regularly posted on here. I suppose everyone starts somewhere on their road to ownership of whatever specialist marque.
This will be a garaged second car as I have a company car. Used purely for pleasure; track and weekends away with the Mrs - yes I know I will have to talk to her about how many pairs of shoes will fit into the cabin.
I will of course need to drive one at some stage.
Thanks for any advice.
Next post I'll be more specific with questions, I promise.
After 12 years with my beloved Chimaera 500 I'm now moving on, so having emptied my garage I'm considering what to get next.
Three options are so far on my shortlist, and although I'd be happy to consider other options, I know which way this forum would swing:
1. BMW Z4 35i DCT. circa £20k - £23k 4 years old. Sensible option with no drama. Everything works at the touch of a button. Hood down in seconds. Aircon works, servicing/running costs (relatively) cheap etc etc, 3ltr twin turbo upgradable from 300 bhp to 375bhp. But will I be bored in 3 years and recover just £10k?
2. TVR Tuscan Mk2. circa £25k - £28k 2005. More of what I know. Love the Mk2 styling. Great performance but worried about buying a Speed 6.
3. GTO-3R. circa £25k - £30k. From my limited research I think I want the 3R features - leather, 6sp g'box, 3ltr, faired headlights. Here's where I need help please.
i. What common upgrades should I look for? I'd rather get something already sorted than chase getting it up to spec. (oily rather than cosmetic upgrades)
ii. Where should I be looking price-wise? I'm not quite at the budget listed above and don't want to borrow too much.
iii. Are M12s better than TVR in terms of chassis protection? Do you waxoyl them & are they powder coated?
iv. Any other gems of info you'd recommend to a newbe.
v. Are there any well sorted examples out there worth chasing (although I'm not quite in a position to jump just yet).
Colour is important. I don't want blue, or green and not sure about silver. Love the colour of the aubergine 2.5 in the classifieds. Interior must be tidy.
Sorry if these queries get regularly posted on here. I suppose everyone starts somewhere on their road to ownership of whatever specialist marque.
This will be a garaged second car as I have a company car. Used purely for pleasure; track and weekends away with the Mrs - yes I know I will have to talk to her about how many pairs of shoes will fit into the cabin.
I will of course need to drive one at some stage.
Thanks for any advice.
Next post I'll be more specific with questions, I promise.
Edited by Jarcy on Thursday 2nd May 01:46
Thanks for responses all.
Yes I would use the car on track, but maximum 2 or 3 times a year. I would not want to sacrefice road manners, and so do not want track-specific geometry which makes the car a handful and unpleasant under normal driving conditions.
For example, I put an H404 cam in my Chimaera, being the most extreme high lift hydraulic cam available. I chose this on the basis of more power and better throttle response at high end. However this made the engine very lumpy on tickover and below 2,000 rpm, and made the car a pain to live with, so on reflection a mistake.
I'll do a search on mods. Just wondered if there were some obvious ones that are necessary to get the car sorted. Track day sump? ECU?
I've already ruled out Ultimas and Porkers as I dislike the look of both.
Tuxman - many thanks for the invite to Silverstone. Unfortunately I'm away for the weekend, otherwise would have loved to travel over for a snoop around. And my aversion to Green excludes yours which looks fab, but I'm not that brave to go with something quite so lairy
Yes I would use the car on track, but maximum 2 or 3 times a year. I would not want to sacrefice road manners, and so do not want track-specific geometry which makes the car a handful and unpleasant under normal driving conditions.
For example, I put an H404 cam in my Chimaera, being the most extreme high lift hydraulic cam available. I chose this on the basis of more power and better throttle response at high end. However this made the engine very lumpy on tickover and below 2,000 rpm, and made the car a pain to live with, so on reflection a mistake.
I'll do a search on mods. Just wondered if there were some obvious ones that are necessary to get the car sorted. Track day sump? ECU?
I've already ruled out Ultimas and Porkers as I dislike the look of both.
Tuxman - many thanks for the invite to Silverstone. Unfortunately I'm away for the weekend, otherwise would have loved to travel over for a snoop around. And my aversion to Green excludes yours which looks fab, but I'm not that brave to go with something quite so lairy
As you are looking for a 3r, all I would say mechanically is best to get one that's had the exhaust upgraded along with fuel pump and wiring. This does mean however the car will be probably running 390 bhp
Older 3rs did have a 5spd and not TDS so just make sure they are present.
Chassis do rust, no where near like TVR. My car is 12yrs old with 53k miles and has no real rust (the odd surface patch).
Floor re sealing would also be a good to have been done as this will often mean the chassis under the floor had been locked at and sorted along with waxol injected.
One other possible issue is the std wheels, as these have been found to crack.
Older 3rs did have a 5spd and not TDS so just make sure they are present.
Chassis do rust, no where near like TVR. My car is 12yrs old with 53k miles and has no real rust (the odd surface patch).
Floor re sealing would also be a good to have been done as this will often mean the chassis under the floor had been locked at and sorted along with waxol injected.
One other possible issue is the std wheels, as these have been found to crack.
Are track day sumps essential for track use? What do they do, prevent oil starvation when cornering?
Were they standard equipment on later cars, and in particular from when on the 3rs?
I'd be quite happy to find one to already have an exhaust mod and its not in my nature to turn down more hp
Cheers
Were they standard equipment on later cars, and in particular from when on the 3rs?
I'd be quite happy to find one to already have an exhaust mod and its not in my nature to turn down more hp
Cheers
Jarcy said:
Are track day sumps essential for track use? What do they do, prevent oil starvation when cornering?
Were they standard equipment on later cars, and in particular from when on the 3rs?
I'd be quite happy to find one to already have an exhaust mod and its not in my nature to turn down more hp
Cheers
The TDS stops the oil surging to one end of the sump when cornering, particularly when pulling high G on track. Without one the bearings will run dry and hence will often lead to an expensive rebuild, or even a totally new engine in some cases. They weren't standard on 3Rs, but many that didn't have it originally have since been upgraded.Were they standard equipment on later cars, and in particular from when on the 3rs?
I'd be quite happy to find one to already have an exhaust mod and its not in my nature to turn down more hp
Cheers
If you get one with an exhaust upgrade, make sure it has been properly remapped too.
AMG Merc said:
Just asking - is a list of fixes and mods on Nobleparts? I mention this as it's often asked so could be covered there.
The info is on NP but not in one place. I did consider it as one of the improvements to be done, but there's not much point in me writing a guide to buying a Noble on NP as you have to be an owner to see it. 
Jarcy said:
Thanks for responses all.
Yes I would use the car on track, but maximum 2 or 3 times a year. I would not want to sacrefice road manners, and so do not want track-specific geometry which makes the car a handful and unpleasant under normal driving conditions.
For example, I put an H404 cam in my Chimaera, being the most extreme high lift hydraulic cam available. I chose this on the basis of more power and better throttle response at high end. However this made the engine very lumpy on tickover and below 2,000 rpm, and made the car a pain to live with, so on reflection a mistake.
I'll do a search on mods. Just wondered if there were some obvious ones that are necessary to get the car sorted. Track day sump? ECU?
I've already ruled out Ultimas and Porkers as I dislike the look of both.
Tuxman - many thanks for the invite to Silverstone. Unfortunately I'm away for the weekend, otherwise would have loved to travel over for a snoop around. And my aversion to Green excludes yours which looks fab, but I'm not that brave to go with something quite so lairy
You won't find a better car thats a good balance between track and road at this price level IMHO. As one who has come from TVR to Noble, the only thing to miss is the burble. I went from Chim 400 to a standard 3R and the difference was huge.Yes I would use the car on track, but maximum 2 or 3 times a year. I would not want to sacrefice road manners, and so do not want track-specific geometry which makes the car a handful and unpleasant under normal driving conditions.
For example, I put an H404 cam in my Chimaera, being the most extreme high lift hydraulic cam available. I chose this on the basis of more power and better throttle response at high end. However this made the engine very lumpy on tickover and below 2,000 rpm, and made the car a pain to live with, so on reflection a mistake.
I'll do a search on mods. Just wondered if there were some obvious ones that are necessary to get the car sorted. Track day sump? ECU?
I've already ruled out Ultimas and Porkers as I dislike the look of both.
Tuxman - many thanks for the invite to Silverstone. Unfortunately I'm away for the weekend, otherwise would have loved to travel over for a snoop around. And my aversion to Green excludes yours which looks fab, but I'm not that brave to go with something quite so lairy
Upgrades to look for:
1 Exhaust, make sure it is not the original, if its stainless it has been upgraded.
2 Fuel pump and wiring upgrade
3 Larger intercooler (proalloy or similar)not essential
4 Remap to match above
5 Radiator, would be nice to see a proalloy, not essential
6 Catch tank, proalloy or simalar again would be nice, not essential
7 Sealed floor
8 Tunnel cooling mod
9 Hard pipe kit, not essential
10 Proalloy (or similar) expansion tank, not essential
11 Bigger/better turbos...................................................................................................................................then the list gets even longer!!!!!!!
Thanks for all the suggestions and help so far. Glad the community is as welcoming as over at TVR.
I'm getting a fair idea of the common mods now. Surprised not to see suspension focused on so much. I guess it must be pretty well sorted in the first place, which is good.
Next I need to consider dealers and/or specialists for service and maintenance. I live in North East Hampshire. Mole Valley in Dorking fairly close. Any other recommendations? Thnx
I'm getting a fair idea of the common mods now. Surprised not to see suspension focused on so much. I guess it must be pretty well sorted in the first place, which is good.
Next I need to consider dealers and/or specialists for service and maintenance. I live in North East Hampshire. Mole Valley in Dorking fairly close. Any other recommendations? Thnx
Jarcy said:
Thanks for all the suggestions and help so far. Glad the community is as welcoming as over at TVR.
I'm getting a fair idea of the common mods now. Surprised not to see suspension focused on so much. I guess it must be pretty well sorted in the first place, which is good.
Next I need to consider dealers and/or specialists for service and maintenance. I live in North East Hampshire. Mole Valley in Dorking fairly close. Any other recommendations? Thnx
Suspension setup and handling was one of Lee Noble's fortes so not much to be improved on really. I'm getting a fair idea of the common mods now. Surprised not to see suspension focused on so much. I guess it must be pretty well sorted in the first place, which is good.
Next I need to consider dealers and/or specialists for service and maintenance. I live in North East Hampshire. Mole Valley in Dorking fairly close. Any other recommendations? Thnx
As for specialists, as well as Mole Valley that you've already mentioned, Jetstream are probably the best people to talk to as they have a good reputation and have seen a fair proportion of Nobles over the years (so can give you some background information on any that are likely to come up for sale). I know that they are a fair distance from you, but a lot of people seem to travel long distances to use them. Bespoke are a bit closer and generally seem to have a good reputation too.
I run the Noble register so if I can help in any way regarding queries about any car that you're interested in, please let me know.
Thanks Daisy - I'll certainly take you up on your offer of running past your register when the time comes. Certainly a valuable resource for any new purchasers, and I'm guessing that almost every car is known within this community. Have you come accross any cars in Aubergine recently....
Jetstream look interesting - Brother-in-law lives in M Harborough, so close for an overnight stop. Or less than 2 hours away from home, but tricky if I ever need to deliver and collect later though.
Jetstream look interesting - Brother-in-law lives in M Harborough, so close for an overnight stop. Or less than 2 hours away from home, but tricky if I ever need to deliver and collect later though.
Jarcy said:
Thanks Daisy - I'll certainly take you up on your offer of running past your register when the time comes. Certainly a valuable resource for any new purchasers, and I'm guessing that almost every car is known within this community. Have you come accross any cars in Aubergine recently....
Can't think of one. 
Daisy Duke said:
Can't think of one.
I've been asleep under a rock in my pond this week HelenFYI, there's one here: www:buymeatauction/vintage/purplevegetable.nob.co....
Hi John,
I was in an identical position 16 months ago (apart from the fact I had had a Griff for ten years) and had similar cars on my list, with a Tuscan S at the top. I had the same concerns over the Speed Six and spoke to a dealer who told me to keep £5k put aside for when the engine needed rebuilding... not if.. and he was selling one!
Noble was probably only third on my list (after an Ultima GTR but couldn't get the spec I wanted within budget) until I drove one.
That's my advice, drive one. If you do I bet you buy it...
Enjoy the search!
Ian
I was in an identical position 16 months ago (apart from the fact I had had a Griff for ten years) and had similar cars on my list, with a Tuscan S at the top. I had the same concerns over the Speed Six and spoke to a dealer who told me to keep £5k put aside for when the engine needed rebuilding... not if.. and he was selling one!
Noble was probably only third on my list (after an Ultima GTR but couldn't get the spec I wanted within budget) until I drove one.
That's my advice, drive one. If you do I bet you buy it...
Enjoy the search!
Ian
I have another question regarding M12 ownership (sorry the search function doesn't seem to work).
I've seen some mention of front splitters. Do these easily get damaged or ripped off? Are they essential for the performance and appearance of the car? High speed stability? Do they get caught on speed bumps? Any idea how low the nose is with splitter attached (ground clearance)? My driveway is slightly sloping with maybe a slight risk of a splitter grounding out. I would hate to buy a car and then find I can't get it up the drive.
Removal may be necessary but hopefully avoidable. Thanks again.
I've seen some mention of front splitters. Do these easily get damaged or ripped off? Are they essential for the performance and appearance of the car? High speed stability? Do they get caught on speed bumps? Any idea how low the nose is with splitter attached (ground clearance)? My driveway is slightly sloping with maybe a slight risk of a splitter grounding out. I would hate to buy a car and then find I can't get it up the drive.
Removal may be necessary but hopefully avoidable. Thanks again.Jarcy said:
I've seen some mention of front splitters. Do these easily get damaged or ripped off? Are they essential for the performance and appearance of the car? High speed stability? Do they get caught on speed bumps? Any idea how low the nose is with splitter attached (ground clearance)? My driveway is slightly sloping with maybe a slight risk of a splitter grounding out. I would hate to buy a car and then find I can't get it up the drive. Removal may be necessary but hopefully avoidable. Thanks again.
Ive never had a problem with the splitter, only once or twice on the highest of speedbumps. Crawl over them and itll be fine. The splitter is fairly shallow, so wont decrease the ground clearance by much. Removal may be necessary but hopefully avoidable. Thanks again.a few of us on here have got Tuxman's carbon splitter which is obviously alot stronger than the original item.
Most M12's ive seen come up for sale have had the essential modifications already done. Post a link up on here of any potential purchases. We are good at picking them apart.
As for Specialists. Jetstream have probably seen more Nobles than any other.AFAIK Dave was production manager there. I think Matt worked there as well?!
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