Discussion
Hi guys,
I'm about to replace the gearbox on my ST220 (Same box as noble minus the LSD) due to occasional jumping out of 2nd gear and whining bearings.
Just wondered if people have suffered similar issues in a higher power application? Also, I would like to uprate it where possible, has anyone done this and if so, have a source for the parts?
Gareth
I'm about to replace the gearbox on my ST220 (Same box as noble minus the LSD) due to occasional jumping out of 2nd gear and whining bearings.
Just wondered if people have suffered similar issues in a higher power application? Also, I would like to uprate it where possible, has anyone done this and if so, have a source for the parts?
Gareth
TuxMan said:
Hi Gareth most of us use a company called competition transmission's or the gearbox man , to sort our gearbox upgrades .
Tux
Thanks Tuxman. What upgrades are usually carried out? I was going to use J.R Dain in Norwich as they are on my doorstep, but ultimately I want the best so would rather use someone recommended where poss.Tux
mrpbailey said:
What power & torque are you running in the ST? I'd imagine upgrading isn't necessary unless you're running big power? Standard power nobles with 350 bhp / 350 lbft seem to be ok?
250bhp and 220 lb ft. But as second gear seems weak plus the whining I'd much rather make sure it's beefed up to prevent it again , gets a lot of stick on 1/4 mile which hasn't helped .
Kidders said:
250bhp and 220 lb ft. But as second gear seems weak plus the whining I'd much rather make sure it's beefed up to prevent it again , gets a lot of stick on 1/4 mile which hasn't helped .
On the Nobles it tends to be 5th gear which fails.
I have a box at CTS at the minute, cost is about £1300 for the strengthening. That's for peen n polish, steel caged bearings, and cooling bits machined, plus all fittings.
Open Diff is a weak point hence we all run quaife LSD... A stock box with LSD should take 300bhp all day long.... Remember stock noble runs 350ftlb as well through a stock box!
Get a good 2nd hand one and fit a quaife is what I would recomend before spending 1.3k modifying your existing.
Get a good 2nd hand one and fit a quaife is what I would recomend before spending 1.3k modifying your existing.
Kidders said:
What about the selector forks? I've heard the plastic pads break off? Also, are you still using the standard Ford spec oil?
We havnt started replacing the plastic selector forks although I've heard they are weak but never heard of a failure and im running over 580ftlb lolWe use the oil recommended by gearbox man, but I think it's std stuff.
In truth I don't think the box would take many launches at any power as it doesn't seem to take shock well... To me They tend to break due to shock of wheels going light and suddenly having traction again, so my old drag strip methods wouldn't end well for my car lol
Btw the most important mod we do (other than fit LSD) is gearbox cooling, but that's only a must have for high power.
Edited by andygtt on Thursday 23 May 07:20
On
One they replaced the main shaft , gear selectors , bearings ect I have changed to Millers competition transmission oil , as Andy has suggested cooling is pretty important but in the Noble it's the wrong end of the car , should be better at the front .
I would have thought a Quaife diff would have been a good step forward for you .
Tux
One they replaced the main shaft , gear selectors , bearings ect I have changed to Millers competition transmission oil , as Andy has suggested cooling is pretty important but in the Noble it's the wrong end of the car , should be better at the front .
I would have thought a Quaife diff would have been a good step forward for you .
Tux
mrpbailey said:
The 2nd hand box I just got from a mondeo needed a new set of selector forks & synchro, and that'd only done 34k miles
I think the crux of the matter here is that to launch a mondeo off the line (assuming ideal traction) will put a massive strain on the drive train because its not made of plastic and weighs in at a considerable amount more than a Noble.If you drag it a lot then I would definitely get rid of the open diff in favour of a LSD or TBD.
The rest is a matter of cost V's desirability and reliability.
Not being funny but to spend an extra £1300 on a Mondeo drive train is probably a third of the value of the car if it's an early one!!
Wheelspin isn't a major problem, the power delivery is so smooth it's always very civilised , an LSD would be useful on the track but that's not often so not something on my priority list unless it turns up at a reasonable price .
It must be the extra weight of the car causing the problem, always hearing of worn synchros and damaged selector forks, may we be a driver issue rather than design but its not an issue I've ever had on more powerful cars with marginal gearboxes !
What was done to improve the cooling of the oil ?
I'm using motul motylgear oil at the moment but I am switching back to standard ford oil as its now leaking from the diff seal !
The car is an investment for me, if I have to spend 1k on getting it replaced and uprated so be it!
Thank for all the contributions so far!
It must be the extra weight of the car causing the problem, always hearing of worn synchros and damaged selector forks, may we be a driver issue rather than design but its not an issue I've ever had on more powerful cars with marginal gearboxes !
What was done to improve the cooling of the oil ?
I'm using motul motylgear oil at the moment but I am switching back to standard ford oil as its now leaking from the diff seal !
The car is an investment for me, if I have to spend 1k on getting it replaced and uprated so be it!
Thank for all the contributions so far!
Kidders said:
It must be the extra weight of the car causing the problem
Almost 100% sure it isn't as it's front wheel drive. Unless there's a massive amount of weight over the front, which there isn't, or the tyres are much bigger and better gripping that Noble rears, which they're defiantly not, you'll have far less grip.It's either :-
A) Getting too hot, cooking the oil
B) Axel tramp, ie pulse wheelspin
C) You're bad and changing gear and you're knocking corners off gears
That it's second gear, were the power you're talking about is probably on the wheelspin cusp I'd go for B).
For oil cooling we drill and tap a take off from below the OS driveshaft and run an external pump to an oil cooler at front of the car then return the oil to another drilled and tap position on to of the box... around £300 for the cooler, lines and pump.
For us its only the diff thats marginal at sub 350ftlb otherwise they are fine... it could be the adjustment that is taking out the selectors, we remove the heavy weight on the selector as whilst that makes for a smooth gearchange, it may well be putting more pressure on it and thus breaking it in stock mondeo?
For us its only the diff thats marginal at sub 350ftlb otherwise they are fine... it could be the adjustment that is taking out the selectors, we remove the heavy weight on the selector as whilst that makes for a smooth gearchange, it may well be putting more pressure on it and thus breaking it in stock mondeo?
Well the current issues might be related to this -
I though it might be worthwhile putting the standard Ford oil back in, not cheap at £40 for 2 litres! Glad I did !
The oil above was Motul Motylgear 75w 90 meeting GL4/GL5 spec, but its a heck of a lot thicker than the Ford stuff, and when draining half came out aerated and the rest came out as neat foam! Not bloody happy!
I suspect this foaming up is what was causing oil to leak from the diff seal, the extra pressure in the box and the fact its thinner would allow it to creep through. It certainly didnt leak before I used it.
That oil has only been in there since Feb, approx 6k?
Immediately the shift quality has gone from ok to awesome, one finger can change gears now and that was with cold oil. Plus the whining I was hearing has now become virtually inaudible unless you labour the engine, either way you have to listen for it to be aware. Lets hope the diff seals have held up and more importantly the gearbox itself. A quick drive revealed no 2nd gear pop although I've become more aware of my downshift and give it a bit more of a push.
I've spoken to my local rebuilder who has quoted £225+VAT for all labour but not including parts. I think at my level running an oil cooler on the box is overkill but I still fancy an LSD!
If anyone has the number or contact for gearboxman can they let me know as his website is down.
I though it might be worthwhile putting the standard Ford oil back in, not cheap at £40 for 2 litres! Glad I did !
The oil above was Motul Motylgear 75w 90 meeting GL4/GL5 spec, but its a heck of a lot thicker than the Ford stuff, and when draining half came out aerated and the rest came out as neat foam! Not bloody happy!
I suspect this foaming up is what was causing oil to leak from the diff seal, the extra pressure in the box and the fact its thinner would allow it to creep through. It certainly didnt leak before I used it.
That oil has only been in there since Feb, approx 6k?
Immediately the shift quality has gone from ok to awesome, one finger can change gears now and that was with cold oil. Plus the whining I was hearing has now become virtually inaudible unless you labour the engine, either way you have to listen for it to be aware. Lets hope the diff seals have held up and more importantly the gearbox itself. A quick drive revealed no 2nd gear pop although I've become more aware of my downshift and give it a bit more of a push.
I've spoken to my local rebuilder who has quoted £225+VAT for all labour but not including parts. I think at my level running an oil cooler on the box is overkill but I still fancy an LSD!
If anyone has the number or contact for gearboxman can they let me know as his website is down.
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