M400 in Italy...

[Phantomlover]

Dear All,
I'm writing from Italy, precisely from Monza,
for sure I'm the absolute Italian Noble best lover, I had a 2,5 a 3R and from some few hours a fantastic M400 lhd!
it's so strange for our country, all the people here are crazy for Ferrari and Porsche, but when I drove the first time a Noble i said: wow that's really the best car to drive!!!
Now I'm so glad to drive an M400 really the best driving-feeling car I've never tested much better and reactive than a 360 or Gt3, I'll wait for my first track day here in Italy to pass all the "usual" sport cars that are driven here in Italy.
My nick means that first of all I love English car, Phantom Rolls is something strange but it really touch my heart, so thank you Uk to continue on creating such full-personality car and thanks to Lee Noble for having create this Track Monster!
Here are some pics of my car... www.ukgarage.it/galleria/thumbnails.php?album=34
Ciao a tutti, from Italy

[AMG Merc]

Phantomlover,

You are clearly a man of impecable style and taste in sports cars!

Click on this link to see some photos of your car ( when it was only a little GTO3! :-) ). It had just arrived at the factory when I saw it...

http://gallery10890.fotopic.net/c218334.html

[hunttheshunt]

Congratulations.

Lovely car, and I don't mind the white at all!!

So round to yours for a meet and a few beers then!!

[paulcundy]

Chaps,
From what I perceive the M400 is so good (more power, better chassis dynamics, more lock, better ergonoics, better engine management, better cooling, and more, why on earth would anyone want to buy a 3R?
Regards
Paul C

[Phantomlover]

AMG Merc said:

Phantomlover, You are clearly a man of impecable style and taste in sports cars! Click on this link to see some photos of your car ( when it was only a little GTO3! :-) ). It had just arrived at the factory when I saw it... http://gallery10890.fotopic.net/c218334.html

Thank you AMG I had already these pics...the changement in M400 has been lovely...
Yesterday I had 200km on the M400, what a satisfaction!!!
Maybe a day I'll come to your Track days, and even you all are invited here in Italy for some laps...

[AMG Merc]

paulcundy said:

Chaps, From what I perceive the M400 is so good (more power, better chassis dynamics, more lock, better ergonoics, better engine management, better cooling, and more, why on earth would anyone want to buy a 3R? Regards Paul C

Paul, I'm inclined to agree with you but the answer to your question could be the price differential of around £6,000 (the difference between a 3R with a/c, metallic paint and alarm and an M400 with a/c, metallic paint and alarm)?

And don't forget, whistl the M400 has all of the above, the latest 3R's come with the improved lock and gearchange so represent good VFM - IMHO :-)

[V6GTO]

It seems that two people, Phantomlover & elisek, claiming to own the same car!

Martin.

[chillidog]

AMG Merc said:

Paul, I'm inclined to agree with you but the answer to your question could be the price differential of around £6,000 (the difference between a 3R with a/c, metallic paint and alarm and an M400 with a/c, metallic paint and alarm)? And don't forget, whistl the M400 has all of the above, the latest 3R's come with the improved lock and gearchange so represent good VFM - IMHO :-)

I agree with the VFM statment. The 6K price differential isn't enough as by the time the punter has got to rationalising the decision to spending over 50K on a car they'll probably have decided "what the hell, for around 10% more I can get the dogs jacobs".

Not that I've got a vested interest of course but the M400 ought to cost around 12K more than the 3R to protect both the 3R residuals and offer two distinct products with distinct prices.

This is just my opinion of course.

[hunttheshunt]

paulcundy said:

Chaps, From what I perceive the M400 is so good (more power, better chassis dynamics, more lock, better ergonoics, better engine management, better cooling, and more, why on earth would anyone want to buy a 3R? Regards Paul C

How did you work that little lot out. The 3R has the revised linkage and steering so surely it's just more power. The others are a myth surely.

[DanH]

hunttheshunt said:

paulcundy said: Chaps, From what I perceive the M400 is so good (more power, better chassis dynamics, more lock, better ergonoics, better engine management, better cooling, and more, why on earth would anyone want to buy a 3R? Regards Paul C How did you work that little lot out. The 3R has the revised linkage and steering so surely it's just more power. The others are a myth surely.

Well presumably the dynamics may be improved as they've moved suspension mount points etc. One gets the impression the m400 has lovely handling, not that I've had the pleasure. Still no adjustable geo though

The cooling and engine management seem to be a result of needing more cooling since it puts out more power (Does it run more boost or is it just hot cams etc?).

[joust]

DanH said:

Well presumably the dynamics may be improved as they've moved suspension mount points etc. One gets the impression the m400 has lovely handling, not that I've had the pleasure. Still no adjustable geo though

Donno about you Dan, but I'd never assume I could set something up better than Lee himself. I can see the attraction I suppose of changing things when you turn up at the track, but given the car's on-road is sublime and the track rather awsome, unless you are going racing I can't see I'd need it.

DanH said:

The cooling and engine management seem to be a result of needing more cooling since it puts out more power (Does it run more boost or is it just hot cams etc?).

Bigger turbos and a different cam AFAIK, but I haven't seen that in writing anywhere.

J

[AMG Merc]

I tend to agree with Justin regardging Lee's middle-of-the-road setup parameters. Also, consider that any changes, apart from invalidating the warranty, may also nullify your insurance cover (I refer to a previous thread whereby an insurer would not cover for fitment of non-standard wheels)!

[chillidog]

joust said:

Bigger turbos and a different cam AFAIK, but I haven't seen that in writing anywhere. J

Some of the differences are mentioned in the M400 brochure; I'd add a link to it but the Noble website is being updated at the moment.

[hunttheshunt]

Ok in defence of my poor little cheap 3R, the only real difference I can see is that of power.

More Power:- granted, if you can tame it!

Better chassis dynamics:- Different pick up points and a roll bar, surely mainly for the track and most people won't touch them anyway!

Same lock!!

Better Ergonmics:- mines fine thanks so to say the M400 is better is arguable.

Better engine management:- Surely that should be different rather than better, to cope with the HL cams, bigger turbos etc.

Better cooling:- One dummy scoop and another for the more aggressive oil cooling. 3R doesn't need it obviosly.

So 6K for a cam and a couple of turbos! Phewwww. Shame my 3R cost £56K!!

Don't knock my 3R it's a bloody fine car and as 'EVO' put it, "can't see the point of paying the extra 6K for the M400", but then what do they know!!!

[AMG Merc]

hunttheshunt said:

... Shame my 3R cost £56K!!

Mine too, just before they reduced the price, grrr! ;-(

[chillidog]

hunttheshunt said:

Ok in defence of my poor little cheap 3R, the only real difference I can see is that of power. More Power:- granted, if you can tame it! [snip] So 6K for a cam and a couple of turbos! Phewwww. Shame my 3R cost £56K!!

Actually the difference between the 3R price you've mentioned and the list price is less than £4K.

So all other things being equal, does the cost for the extra performance represent good value? ... I'm to much of a newbie in this area to be able to judge.

[chillidog]

AMG Merc said:

hunttheshunt said: ... Shame my 3R cost £56K!! Mine too, just before they reduced the price, grrr! ;-(

Sorry!

[AMG Merc]

chillidog said:

Actually the difference between the 3R price you've mentioned and the list price is less than £4K.

I made it (minimum requirement):

3R:
£50K + a/c £2K + met paint £500 = £52.5K

M400:
£56K + a/c £2K + met paint £500 = £58.5K

= £6K differential, no?

[DanH]

joust said:

DanH said: Well presumably the dynamics may be improved as they've moved suspension mount points etc. One gets the impression the m400 has lovely handling, not that I've had the pleasure. Still no adjustable geo though Donno about you Dan, but I'd never assume I could set something up better than Lee himself. I can see the attraction I suppose of changing things when you turn up at the track, but given the car's on-road is sublime and the track rather awsome, unless you are going racing I can't see I'd need it.

Not suggesting he hasn't done a good job, and for road usage I agree it doesn't seem any changes are needed, but once you start playing with dampers, tyres & ride height its nice to have the flexibility. Also geo doesn't necessarily have a 'right' setting, some of it depends on peoples taste e.g. how much self centering you want etc.

Pretty much every car on the road today has been setup by an expert, but they all have adjustable geo. Dunno if you can even rely on geo to stay perfectly square when theres no adjustment. Presumably stuff moves about a bit, because if car manufacturers could get away with making it non adjustable on shopping carts, I'm sure they would...

[hunttheshunt]

Hey welcome to the wonderful world that is 'Investing in Cars'!

Just drive it and be happy.

I'd have an M400 too for the difference to be honest, but it wasn't available when I bought mine and anyway, I've just bought the wife a new Disco on the basis that, with my X5, it will annoy even more people than the Noble.