Discussion
Funnily enough I was looking at/thinking about this last night. Couple of things I was wondering if anyone has tried:
1. larger intercooler (e.g. from Pace)
2. Water spray (my EVO had it and so do new Scoobies)
3. Water injection (this did reduce charge temps on my grp N Cossie, but only affects performance as allows more boost to be run).
4. Charge cooler. there seems to be a space crying out for one on my 400 on the oposite side to the oil cooler.
5. CryO2 (CO2 cooling) worried about the CO2 being very close to the air intake though.
Any proven fitments would be interesting to look at.
1. larger intercooler (e.g. from Pace)
2. Water spray (my EVO had it and so do new Scoobies)
3. Water injection (this did reduce charge temps on my grp N Cossie, but only affects performance as allows more boost to be run).
4. Charge cooler. there seems to be a space crying out for one on my 400 on the oposite side to the oil cooler.
5. CryO2 (CO2 cooling) worried about the CO2 being very close to the air intake though.
Any proven fitments would be interesting to look at.
we seem to have been through loads of ideas like those. Just wondered if anyone has actually done it.
I know PaulC has done some research, have you got anywhere with your intercooler mods Paul !?
I'm thinking of having JNM's intercooler upgrade. They seem very confident in it keeping the charge temp 10degC lower than std. At £998+VAT fitted tho I'm keen to see if that makes any real world difference!
I know PaulC has done some research, have you got anywhere with your intercooler mods Paul !?
I'm thinking of having JNM's intercooler upgrade. They seem very confident in it keeping the charge temp 10degC lower than std. At £998+VAT fitted tho I'm keen to see if that makes any real world difference!
£1k for a new intercooler seems very steep.
the "large RS500" one I fitted to the cossie was about £350 from Pace, and that was pretty big, and had all fittings etc. If it's just the intercooler, fitting doesn't exactly look difficult. Might be worth giving them a ring, as they are very helpful.
the "large RS500" one I fitted to the cossie was about £350 from Pace, and that was pretty big, and had all fittings etc. If it's just the intercooler, fitting doesn't exactly look difficult. Might be worth giving them a ring, as they are very helpful.
obes said:
That is much better value. I forgot to say that the JNM price includes what they described as 'considerable adjustments' in the engine bay !!!!
>> Edited by obes on Tuesday 11th January 15:48
They'd need to a bit more than a vaguely handwavey comment to justify that cost though! If its that hard to fit, surely they've sourced a badly matched part!
Oh no not another intercooler thread! this must be the 5th we've had.
Yes I've done all the researh. As I said in a previous posting I'm about to try out the effects of fans cos there's no other way to get air to flow over the standard M12 IC.
As soon as I have had a go I'll let you all know.
In the meantime please understand that improving the IC will not show any great change on a Dyno plot. Dyno plots are done and dusted in approx 10 seconds. As you see on the PHP video they also have bloody great fans blowing on the IC so its a very false envoirenment. If I eventualy find an IC solution I would only expect to reap the benefits after sustained use on the track. When thrashing after a while the whole engine bay including the IC reaches a thermal equilibrium that is not replicated on a dyno, not only do they have bloody great fans blowing they often have the rear clam up as well! When the whole lot is heated up thats when you start to loose power as the ECU retards the spark in response to the hot air reaching the manifold. On a Noble the ECU starts to inhibit at over 40'c. If you add boost this increases the temp even more. So the holy grail is get the air entering the manifold down to 40'c. On my car in race conditions the temp never gets below 50-55'c. If I can lower it to 40'c that should release about 20-25 BHP. As I said I'm aiming to test a solution this month and will report back but it will be as much about driving experience as it will be about absolute BHP changes.
Reading the above does this mean your car produces most power from the start when its cold and does it then progressively loose power until thermal equilibrium is reached? - yes.
Regadrs
Paul C
Yes I've done all the researh. As I said in a previous posting I'm about to try out the effects of fans cos there's no other way to get air to flow over the standard M12 IC.
As soon as I have had a go I'll let you all know.
In the meantime please understand that improving the IC will not show any great change on a Dyno plot. Dyno plots are done and dusted in approx 10 seconds. As you see on the PHP video they also have bloody great fans blowing on the IC so its a very false envoirenment. If I eventualy find an IC solution I would only expect to reap the benefits after sustained use on the track. When thrashing after a while the whole engine bay including the IC reaches a thermal equilibrium that is not replicated on a dyno, not only do they have bloody great fans blowing they often have the rear clam up as well! When the whole lot is heated up thats when you start to loose power as the ECU retards the spark in response to the hot air reaching the manifold. On a Noble the ECU starts to inhibit at over 40'c. If you add boost this increases the temp even more. So the holy grail is get the air entering the manifold down to 40'c. On my car in race conditions the temp never gets below 50-55'c. If I can lower it to 40'c that should release about 20-25 BHP. As I said I'm aiming to test a solution this month and will report back but it will be as much about driving experience as it will be about absolute BHP changes.
Reading the above does this mean your car produces most power from the start when its cold and does it then progressively loose power until thermal equilibrium is reached? - yes.
Regadrs
Paul C
paulcundy said:
Oh yes and my solution - as complex as buying a radiator fan and sticking it on the intercooler.
Regards
Paul C
Paul, have you had any luck with this idea coming to fruition yet? I had this idea too (to fit my VXR220) and it received a luke warm reception! Maybe we are mad!!
cheeky_chops said:
Oh yes and my solution - as complex as buying a radiator fan and sticking it on the intercooler.
Regards
Paul C
Paul, have you had any luck with this idea coming to fruition yet? I had this idea too (to fit my VXR220) and it received a luke warm reception! Maybe we are mad!!
Nah its a good idea. A couple of pull fans on the back make good sense to me. I just reckon they need to be thermostatically controlled and mounted on a shroud for decent efficiency. Only downer is that they may further block airflow when not on, so you may find the fans on a lot.
I keep meaning to look into it, but so busy at the moment, I've barely got time to use the car let alone improve it.
gotapex said:
The stock intercooler core is something like 17.75" long, 10" high, and 2" wide. This means either putting something like a single 10-11" fan, or a pair of smaller ones. Most around this size I've seen are about 800-900 cfm. Is that what you got?
So a pair of 8" ones would work a treat I reckon.
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