Discussion
I have just been down to see these guys www.haywardandscott.co.uk
With regards to producing a turbo back stainless steel exhaust. He suggested 2 seperate systems, he would also fit decat pipes( and flange the original cats, to fit when required for Mot)The quality of their work is superb, they have a mandrel bending up to 3". Is also producing a stainless hard pipe between the intercooler and throttle body, welding in both dump valve(forge have produced one for me) and thread for sensor. Price is £800+vat, however he said that if I can get a group buy this would drop somewhat. So is anyone else interested? Have a look at their website, not your usual "maxpower" exhaust company.
With regards to producing a turbo back stainless steel exhaust. He suggested 2 seperate systems, he would also fit decat pipes( and flange the original cats, to fit when required for Mot)The quality of their work is superb, they have a mandrel bending up to 3". Is also producing a stainless hard pipe between the intercooler and throttle body, welding in both dump valve(forge have produced one for me) and thread for sensor. Price is £800+vat, however he said that if I can get a group buy this would drop somewhat. So is anyone else interested? Have a look at their website, not your usual "maxpower" exhaust company.
I have used Hayward and Scott several times for my previous TVRs and for my present HSV. Only ever had one problem which was rectified to my satisfaction with no fuss. Have recommended several people to them with similar happy results. Only downside is sometimes there is a bit of a wait to get booked in due to their good reputation.
Am I right in thinking that the advantages are
a) pipes won't corrode
b) no cat means less throttle lag (and Cundy-like flames)
and the disadvantages are
c) Cost
d) Weight (stainless steel is heavier than mild steel)
e) Obtaining insurance
f) No Factory warranty
g) Effort taken to slot cats in and out
In around 6 months time I won't be worried about (f) as it won't exist for my car; so possibly (f) becomes an an advantage for the enthusiastic owner!
a) pipes won't corrode
b) no cat means less throttle lag (and Cundy-like flames)
and the disadvantages are
c) Cost
d) Weight (stainless steel is heavier than mild steel)
e) Obtaining insurance
f) No Factory warranty
g) Effort taken to slot cats in and out
In around 6 months time I won't be worried about (f) as it won't exist for my car; so possibly (f) becomes an an advantage for the enthusiastic owner!
Also there's the fact that you may not pass a roadside emissions test (there seem to be a few about nowadays too).
This can be a simple slap on the wrist and a trip to the MOT centre for just the emissions to be checked, and then back down the cop shop within 7 days to prove you have "fixed" it (read as put the cat(s) back in).
However, reading some stuff on this the other day (as I am just about to decat my car) many local councils voted in favor of a fixed penanty and fine for such an offence.
It seems to be a gray area, but I have decided I will take my chances.
This can be a simple slap on the wrist and a trip to the MOT centre for just the emissions to be checked, and then back down the cop shop within 7 days to prove you have "fixed" it (read as put the cat(s) back in).
However, reading some stuff on this the other day (as I am just about to decat my car) many local councils voted in favor of a fixed penanty and fine for such an offence.
It seems to be a gray area, but I have decided I will take my chances.
Vegantune have a system available too, also with high flow cat flanged in so you can put a replacement pipe in instead.
They should in fact way less than the stock iron item - the one on my Elise was about half as heavy as the stock!
Vaguely interested in the pipe with a dump valve in it, although 800+vat sounds a lot for a bit of steel pipe with a tiny bit of welding, or is that the exhaust price?
dan, that is the price for the exhaust, and hard pipe(but excludes the dump valve)That price was for a one off, that price would drop if more than one person ordered it. this systen is 2 seperate exhaust, one from each turbo, therefore much better flow, the other option, is to leave the cats in, the flow would still be much better.This is much cheaper than others I have seen, and they have proven results with their exhaust on other turbo cars. Hope that helps.
Hmm completely separate exhaust. Interesting idea. Wonder if there are any negatives?
Do you know if the solid pipe would be mandrel bent? Theres a really nice looking one on this thread on the US forum (most I see in the UK are welded to make the corners) :
www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?p=1197#post1197
Yep definitely keep us briefed. I'm not hopeful on more power with a better exhaust, I'd be more wanting it to sound meatier without being droney on the motorway! Which is probably why I'm a tad disinclined to risk changing it as you never know what its going to be like if you are first in line
chillidog said:
AFAIK Trevor has said removing the cats will give you 1 or 2 bhp more.
Do you really want to eat a few more flowers for such a small gain!
J
Doesn't it just reduce turbo lag/improve throttle response?
Yes and by quite a margin, there is a small power gain but the difference in throttle response/lag is quite marked. Pauls car feels (and goes) completely different to a standard 2.5 yet the only engine upgrades it has is one of our intercoolers and Plans exhaust.
There's very very little lag on Pauls car now and rolling back onto the throttle post gear change is much crisper and pretty much instant in terms of power delivery.
Having seen the Plans exhaust up close and personal its a lovely bit of kit, two seperate systems all in stainless and all in the largest bore it was possible to fit in and it sounds 'meaty' without being overbearing - do note you'll only get flames with the cats removed though as they act as a rather good flame trap when their fitted.
Best Regards
Matt
gizard said:
Do the KATS actually work in the Plans exhaust? - they are quite a way from the turbos - and to work KATS need to get very hot...
This hot enough?
http://paulcundy.smugmug.com/gallery/359222/3/18847127
I was having the same thoughts about the cats. Paul, arnt the flames a result of unburnt fuel from hitting the limiter?? I understand you are using yours for racing, but for road use unless cats are very close to the turbos, several people have said they wont heat up enough to pass emmisions. feel free to shoot me down in flames.
Why would cats need to be next to the turbos to work? They work fine in non turbo cars! Its not like the exhaust gasses are cold.
I'm more worried by the quantity of fuel dumped out the back on Pauls car as if that had Cats in, I thought they'd get buggered and have a risk of overheating severly? Of course driving on the limiter is atypical
>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 6th April 22:58
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