Roush - Thanks
Discussion
Alex, Congrats on your new setup 
Just wondering whether you considered the ohlins suspension kit as a possibility or do the nitrons offer better value for the same performance?
Do you think that with the right suspension set up and Corsas you could get a GTO or 3R to be almost as quick on track as an M400? I'm sure the M400 owners who have gone from a previous M12 could provide some insight on this. Having been in a couple of M400's last weekend at Bedford courtesy of Joust and Steve, I felt the most impressive aspect of them was the mechanical grip they had (wet chicanes excepted
). How much of this is down to the stickier rubber?
I've been toying with the idea of upgrading to an M400 but i'm starting to think the gap could be narrowed with the right kit on my 3R at less of the cost..
Just wondering whether you considered the ohlins suspension kit as a possibility or do the nitrons offer better value for the same performance?
Do you think that with the right suspension set up and Corsas you could get a GTO or 3R to be almost as quick on track as an M400? I'm sure the M400 owners who have gone from a previous M12 could provide some insight on this. Having been in a couple of M400's last weekend at Bedford courtesy of Joust and Steve, I felt the most impressive aspect of them was the mechanical grip they had (wet chicanes excepted
). How much of this is down to the stickier rubber? I've been toying with the idea of upgrading to an M400 but i'm starting to think the gap could be narrowed with the right kit on my 3R at less of the cost..
diceman said:Stop it!
Do you think that with the right suspension set up and Corsas you could get a GTO or 3R to be almost as quick on track as an M400? I'm sure the M400 owners who have gone from a previous M12 could provide some insight on this. Having been in a couple of M400's last weekend at Bedford courtesy of Joust and Steve, I felt the most impressive aspect of them was the mechanical grip they had (wet chicanes excepted
Firstly, the chicane was purely a "demonstration" lap
Secondly, having played with another Nitroned car on Corsas it's close, but as they say "not that close".
With a standard M12 you wouldn't be able to do the deep trail braking into the corners, you'd have swapped end way before the M400 would. Most of that is down to the ARB, but some of it is also the better geo setup (the bottom wishbone area is very different between the M400 and M12 it seems) and also the greater control of the Dynamics suspension.
Nitorns / Olins and Corsas will get you some of the way, but remember that the M400 is a good 10-20% quicker than a 3R on a given track, and that's a *big* gap.
J
Dice, spoke to a couple of people re ohlins, was tol they are a bit harsh for the road, plus got the nitrons second hand. I am sure it will improve the track times, but as justin says the M400 will still be faster, but then again, me driving a M400 and someone like andy walsh driving mine I guess he would be quicker!! I am doing this to improve the car, as at the moment I am not in the market for a M400, if I could justify the £25k to upgrade - I would.
Alex.
Alex.
joust said:
... Most of that is down to the ARB....
Hhhmm. ARB's usually reduce the braking power of the fronts if anything. Are M400's less prone to spinning under heavy brake/turn-in because of reduced front braking power and so better brake balance? I'm not disputing the M400 handles better than a Nitroned car and I'm probably not the best to judge, but it'd be interesting to know just what is making the difference.
joust said:
Do you think that with the right suspension set up and Corsas you could get a GTO or 3R to be almost as quick on track as an M400? I'm sure the M400 owners who have gone from a previous M12 could provide some insight on this. Having been in a couple of M400's last weekend at Bedford courtesy of Joust and Steve, I felt the most impressive aspect of them was the mechanical grip they had (wet chicanes excepted
Stop it!
Firstly, the chicane was purely a "demonstration" lap
Secondly, having played with another Nitroned car on Corsas it's close, but as they say "not that close".
With a standard M12 you wouldn't be able to do the deep trail braking into the corners, you'd have swapped end way before the M400 would. Most of that is down to the ARB, but some of it is also the better geo setup (the bottom wishbone area is very different between the M400 and M12 it seems) and also the greater control of the Dynamics suspension.
Nitorns / Olins and Corsas will get you some of the way, but remember that the M400 is a good 10-20% quicker than a 3R on a given track, and that's a *big* gap.
J
It is interesting where the benefits come from.
It must be a combination of a slightly stiffer front end secondary to the ARB and as Phil mentions more rearward brake bias that enables the impressive late braking whilst still turning in antics.
Thanks Alex, sounds like a good deal, I think I heard elsewhere that the ohlins were a bit stiff. Does anyone have any first experience of these to comment?
Dear All,
In theory of course a 2.5 could be made to handle as well as an M400. Its the same chassis but with different bits bolted on. However its not just the dampers, the geo is different, the springs different, there is an ARB and there is a quicker steering rack plus of course the suspension has been set up in combination with the tyres.
In theory you could just bolt all that onto your chassis and away you go.
I have the Ohlins fitted, these are multi way adjustable and can be setup to mimick the effets of an ARB. I also have added camber and stickier tyres. I've had a couple of days on the track alongside M400s but I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions because as we kinow my car was only producing 270 hp max. However there's no doubt that a race orientated setup that might well deliver equivalent grip to an M400 would almost certainly be far too harsh for the road. That's part of the beauty of the M400 setup - the fact that its so good on the track as well as the road.
Regards
Paul C
In theory of course a 2.5 could be made to handle as well as an M400. Its the same chassis but with different bits bolted on. However its not just the dampers, the geo is different, the springs different, there is an ARB and there is a quicker steering rack plus of course the suspension has been set up in combination with the tyres.
In theory you could just bolt all that onto your chassis and away you go.
I have the Ohlins fitted, these are multi way adjustable and can be setup to mimick the effets of an ARB. I also have added camber and stickier tyres. I've had a couple of days on the track alongside M400s but I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions because as we kinow my car was only producing 270 hp max. However there's no doubt that a race orientated setup that might well deliver equivalent grip to an M400 would almost certainly be far too harsh for the road. That's part of the beauty of the M400 setup - the fact that its so good on the track as well as the road.
Regards
Paul C
I'm sure you could setup a gto3 to have more mechnical grip than an m400, as Simon from the factory has pointed out many times they were going for a balance of feel as well as grip. As Paul points out though, it won't be very nice on the road.
Not sure about this swapping ends business with Nitrons? Surely too many variables and too small a data set to come to that kind of conclusion. Especially as the nitrons are adjustable and could well have had a tricky setup at the time.
Out of interest, where the 2nd hand nitrons the ones advertised here by Andy?
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