Noble chassis info

[TudorMiron]

Hi All,
I'd like to know if anybody has pictures of Noble chassis - I'd love to see some!
Also does anybody have figures for chassis torsional stiffness and weight distribution?

Thank you
Ted

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=104&i=3561

[TudorMiron]

Thank you! Nice link.

Is there any info on stiffness and bare chassis weight?

Thanks
Ted

[V6GTO]

Errr...don't think so, but Justin will prove me wrong if he can!

Martin.

[joust]

The M400, as part of it's development, was placed on a four post test rig (see www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=26&t=96553)

AFAIK Noble have never released actual figures.

J

[TudorMiron]

Hmmm... This is a great car. I don't really understand why Noble hides such information from his clients.

Thanks
Ted

[BCA]

TudorMiron said:

Hmmm... This is a great car. I don't really understand why Noble hides such information from his clients. Thanks Ted

What makes you think they are hiding it?? I cant think of many manufacturers who freely talk figures, as the vast majority of people dont know what they are on about.

[TudorMiron]

1)What makes me think so? The simple fact that it's not available.

2) Some do (Lotus) when they have something to be proud of.
Thanks
Ted

[joust]

What also isn't available.......

1) The rpm of the air-con fans on settings 1, 2 and 3
2) The OS version of the ECU
3) The diameter of the return oil valve hole in the dampers
4) The weight of the battery

All probably have more relvance that the actual torsional stiffness. If you want to know how stiff it is, then, like weighing the battery, buy one and measure it.

Me, I couldn't care if it's 10Nm/degree or 100,000Nm/degree, all I know is that it handles better than anything else I've driven, including a Formula Palmer Audi race car, and how that's done I don't care.

J

[joust]

TudorMiron said:

2) Some do (Lotus) when they have something to be proud of.

Given the Lotus Elise is 10133Nm/degree, and is bettered by a BMW Z4 (14500Nm/degree) and blown out of the water by a Range Rover @ 32,000Nm/degree and VW Phaton @ 37,000Nm/degree, is that really something to be "proud of"???

J

[BCA]

Joust has made the point I was trying to make.

*YOU* are the only person that is questioning it, im sure that Noble have nothing to hide.

Anyway, who wants to brag about torsional stiffness?? A stiff car is naff all use without optimised set up. I have to say the Noble is one of very very few cars that has exceeded my expectations over the past few years - all down to its mind boggling handling.

[TudorMiron]

Take it easy guys . I'm not trying to say that Noble is not a good car. In fact it is a great car. Chassis figures that I asked are needed for educational purpose.

Now about that statement that Noble outhandled Palmer Audi formula car.
Would you please describe what exactly did it do better?
Did Noble outbrake Palemer Audi? (shorter braking distance and time to decelerate from say 200km/h to 100km/h)
Did Noble outcorner Palmer Audi? (higher cornering speed)
Did Nobel do beter in trasitions (faster through medium or high speed "S" corners?
Now finally was it (personally for you) easier to control? Did you feel more comfortable driving Noble at racing speed?


Now about manufacturers being proud of chassis stiffness numbers that they publish. It's not hard at all to get stiff structure with high weight - your Land Rover and BMW Z4 examples should contain weight of the structure that gives those stiffness numbers.
Lotus is proud of his chassis being stiif and light at the same time.

I agree absolutely that many Noble owners don't care how stiff the chassis is. Not very many actually know why it is desirable to have a stiff chassis. At the same time I don't think that it's a sin to want to know more.

Thanks
Ted

[chillidog]

TudorMiron said:

Lotus is proud of his chassis being stiif and light at the same time. I agree absolutely that many Noble owners don't care how stiff the chassis is.

Ted

I don't know the figures but in my own limited experience I do know that my standard M400 corners with little to no observable roll compared with a standard Lotus Elise 190. The lack of roll on the M400 makes the Elise 190 look like a "normal" road car! The owner of the said 190 was quite astonished at the difference (he said "I want one of those" ).

I think that quoting stiffness figures doesn't have the same effect as the above on influencing a purchase; if you drive one, you'll know what I mean and the figures become rather academic.
--
Richard

>> Edited by chillidog on Tuesday 17th May 11:09

[joust]

TudorMiron said:

Now about that statement that Noble outhandled Palmer Audi formula car. Would you please describe what exactly did it do better? Did Noble outbrake Palemer Audi? (shorter braking distance and time to decelerate from say 200km/h to 100km/h) Did Noble outcorner Palmer Audi? (higher cornering speed) Did Nobel do beter in trasitions (faster through medium or high speed "S" corners? Now finally was it (personally for you) easier to control? Did you feel more comfortable driving Noble at racing speed?

Read what I said. It handled better

[m12_nathan]

But a race car is set up to go better at the expense of being friendlier at the limit (which is what I assume you mean by handled better) so it's not really a fair comparison. If you set a Noble up for maximium performance it's handling would suffer but the lap times would be better.

[joust]

m12_nathan said:

But a race car is set up to go better at the expense of being friendlier at the limit (which is what I assume you mean by handled better) so it's not really a fair comparison. If you set a Noble up for maximium performance it's handling would suffer but the lap times would be better.

The FPA was part of JPs corporate days, so I very much doubt it was setup the same as it would be for a race.

I also prefer (and seem to be faster around West 8 and West 10) in the M400 than the Palmer Jaguar. Both are £60k so is that a "fair" enough comparison for you.

As I've often said I don't have any intention of racing, I was merely pointing out that looking at numbers is as useful in choosing a car (although we don't actually know if Ted is actually thinking of buying one....) as comparing processor speeds on PDAs.

Clearly the FPA race car will have a higher torsional stiffness than the Noble - but who cars, I feel much better, safer and in control in the M400 than I do in a FPA or PJ. Conclude what you want from that.

J

[TudorMiron]

As I said my interst in chassis numbers are more of an academic interest.

Joust, Please explane what word "handling" means (sorry English is not my native language)
Does it mean that a car is easy to drive (for normal i.e. not professional race driver) around a track at(relatively close to) racing speed or does it mean that the car is truely FAST around that same track (assuming we're talking about braking zones and corners)
What I mean is: do we talk about subjective (feeling and personal impression) or objective ( hard numbers like G's pulled and seconds on the stop watch.)?

I have some limited experience with race cars and I have to say that a truely fast car is very rarely "easy" to drive close or on the limit.

Again - I'm not saying that Noble is not good enough. I'm just wanted to know more about it.

Thanks
Ted

[m12_nathan]

joust said:

I also prefer (and seem to be faster around West 8 and West 10) in the M400 than the Palmer Jaguar. Both are £60k so is that a "fair" enough comparison for you.

Easy I was only adding to the debate! I have to say that a JP1 will be faster through any given corner than an M400, I think a lot of your comfort in driving the Noble at or beyond the limit comes from your familiarity with it (and the fact it is obviously a fantastic chassis).

[silversix]

JP1 was much faster than me at Donnington. but there again I can't drive, and Craner Curves scare the hell out of me.

[joust]

m12_nathan said:

Easy I was only adding to the debate!

Grrooowwwwwllll

m12_nathan said:

I have to say that a JP1 will be faster through any given corner than an M400, I think a lot of your comfort in driving the Noble at or beyond the limit comes from your familiarity with it (and the fact it is obviously a fantastic chassis).

I am sure it actually *is* faster (although from memory, it wasn't devestatingly faster around the SW circuit on EVOs 'scorecard'), but I *feel* faster in the M400.

The JP1 was a car that all too often I've ended up going backwards at a stupid rate of knots (although to be fair, 70%+ of them have been due to the instructor egging me on to find the limit ) - sure it has loads of grip, but boy, when it lets go, it lets go.

Also, the Noble seems to have more lateral pull around the Palmer curves than the FPA. Some of that may be that you are slightly (but not a lot) lower, and hence won't feel the pull, but all in all the M400, torsional stiffness or not - is so much better put together to keep things on the black stuff when you exceed the grip available.

As all I've ever had is a trace from the FPA logging system, I've no real way to compare each of the three. Perhaps I'll take a DL90 with me to one of the Autocar days that are on the SW circuit and then we could compare like with like.

J