Porsche 993 TT Compared To Noble M400
Discussion
im in a bit of a dilemma... in around six months ill be in a position to buy my first super car... however having the choice between a noble or a porsche 993 turbo...im not too sure which to chose. the m400 certainly has the performance but those porsches look soooooooo good aswel!
i was wondering if any noble owners have had one of these porsches and which would they prefer... i know performance wise it wouldnt be too much of a difference but what about comfort, quality and styling??
price wise i reckon for a decent 993 turbo its around 40k compared to a used noble m400 in around 5-6 months for 48-49k (Whats also interesting is how ferrari 360's are dropping in price! Ive seen few between 50-60k!)
many thanks
i was wondering if any noble owners have had one of these porsches and which would they prefer... i know performance wise it wouldnt be too much of a difference but what about comfort, quality and styling??
price wise i reckon for a decent 993 turbo its around 40k compared to a used noble m400 in around 5-6 months for 48-49k (Whats also interesting is how ferrari 360's are dropping in price! Ive seen few between 50-60k!)
many thanks
you can't really compare them they are completely different cars. The 911 has PSM and 4x4 etc. the noble doesn't. on Wet roads the 911 will be faster than the Noble - unless your Micheal Scuhmacer or similar. On the Track the Noble will probably be quicker in most cases but not by much.
The 911 has alot more luggage space and is going to be alot more comfortable on long journeys - this is not to say the Noble is uncomfortable though.
Anyway it's horses for courses they are really very different beasts.
The 911 has alot more luggage space and is going to be alot more comfortable on long journeys - this is not to say the Noble is uncomfortable though.
Anyway it's horses for courses they are really very different beasts.
My two cents worth having owned 5 Porsches before the Noble.
I sold my non-turbo 993 and bought the Noble. Noble is much faster, handles much better, rides much better on rough roads and is much cheaper to repair. My 993 needed a $10,000 US valve job at 60,000 miles. I can buy 2 complete Noble engines for that much. The normal scheduled maintanence costs at least $1000 every time.
The 993 of course has 50 years of engineering behind it, has a more refined interior. Has some trunk space, airbags, anti-lock brakes, sunroof.
There are thousands of 993s here in Texas. Four Nobles.
I sold my non-turbo 993 and bought the Noble. Noble is much faster, handles much better, rides much better on rough roads and is much cheaper to repair. My 993 needed a $10,000 US valve job at 60,000 miles. I can buy 2 complete Noble engines for that much. The normal scheduled maintanence costs at least $1000 every time.
The 993 of course has 50 years of engineering behind it, has a more refined interior. Has some trunk space, airbags, anti-lock brakes, sunroof.
There are thousands of 993s here in Texas. Four Nobles.
gizard said:Try telling that to the three 911s of various models that I passed 'with ease' on a pissing down day at Mallory Park.... along with the Bently Continental that eventually pulled over in the lake district in the wet with a cheerful wave "come by" as he just wasn't happy.
The 911 has PSM and 4x4 etc. the noble doesn't. on Wet roads the 911 will be faster than the Noble - unless your Micheal Scuhmacer or similar.
PSM et all is no substitute for raw mechanical grip, and as the Autocar grip tests have proven, the M12 has immense wet weather grip as well as dry. PSM cannot 'enhance' the laws of physics, all it can do is recognise where those limits are an reduce power / change the car balance to ensure the car remains within those laws. Given IMHO (and I am absolutly no Scuhmacher), the M400 has even more wet weather grip than M12 apart from in standing water, you will be well past where the Porsche PSM is kicking in before you get near to the M400 limits.
If you want to see the limits (and beyond
) have a look at the videos at www.lotus-elise.org.uk/noble/videos.htm
under "Bruntingthorpe VMAX, 3rd May 2004" and tell me that a Porsche could get around those corners quicker in the wet...
J
fernando_khan said:
i was wondering if any noble owners have had one of these porsches and which would they prefer... i know performance wise it wouldnt be too much of a difference but what about comfort, quality and styling??
many thanks
I have owned a 911 RS before my 3R (with a few M400 bits) and found the reaction from other drivers whilst on the road quite different.
In the Porsche people would give you the look of 'Oh yeh look at that ....... in his PORSCHE'. Few drivers would let you out at road junctions, and others would look down their nose at you because they thought you were an upper class toff.
In the Noble however, the reaction is quite different. The marque has grown very quickly over the past few years, and other drivers always give a thumbs up, let you out at road junctions, stop and stare at the roadside. If you park it up at a race circuit, better take a window polish cloth, because when you get back to the car, the windows will be covered with sweaty finger and hand prints from people wanting a closer look.
As for the driving difference, nothing comes close to the thrill of driving the Noble in terms of acceleration, sharp steering, cornering grip and braking.
Save youself a fortune in sevice costs, and enjoy the experience and thrill (and exclusivity) of Noble ownership.
Cheers,
Ian.
i intend on doing some trackdays and around 5000 miles a year. In terms of exclusivity the noble wins hands down.
The main thing that would persuade me either way would be how easy one car is to drive and how easy is it to be close to the limit without being schumacher and knowing that its not going to snap out on me.
regards
The main thing that would persuade me either way would be how easy one car is to drive and how easy is it to be close to the limit without being schumacher and knowing that its not going to snap out on me.
regards
I've owned both a 993 turbo 4 and a Noble GTO-3 !
How can you compare these 2 cars.... not very easily. They are both superb machines in dfferent ways. How can you compare "handling" of 2 cars.. almost impossible (chalk/cheese). How can you compare looks/WOW factor... don't even try as it's all in the eyes of the driver/owner.
It's quite strange that you mention these 2 cars. I've had the extreme fortune over the past 15 years or so to have gone through many superb cars from Lotus Esprit V8's, TVR cerbera 4.5 and Chimaera 500, WRC cars like Subaru/Escort Cosworths and even a couple of Jap cars like a Supra and a Skyline. The list goes on and on. Cost me enough money to buy another house if I even dared to add it all up.
With all of these motor's, if you asked me to pick my fave I would ironically tell you I couldn't easily split the 993 turbo or the Noble.. sorry but it's true.
IMHO (flame Suit on) running costs - I'd go for the Porsche. A 993 will get very good service from a specialist (service about £600 every 12 mths/12k miles), the Noble will cost you much more. Handling wise, the Porsche is a mastercraft in engineering over physics. Despite having that engine slung out so far over the back, the amount of grip provided is as good if not better than the Noble thanks to 4WD and a few bits of basic electronics. If you fancy trying to treat the Roads as a race track then the Porsche runs away with it. Treating a Track like a race track then the Noble will give you more fun and possibly better lap times, but only just. Performance wise - the Porsche is in a leage of it's own. Granted, the Noble is quick off the mark, but the pull you get at 180mph in the 993 is astonishing, plus you can easily push the Porsche to 600bhp in nice little 100bhp increments as funds allow.
Reliability wise - Porsche hands down. I didn't have any problems with either car, but my 60k mile Porsche was still very tight and I just can't imaging a Noble putting up with that mileage. Galvanised steel V's fiberglass.. neither will rust but one will last much longer.
one has 4 seats, the other has 2 ...
The comparisons and contrasts go on and on...
I've not been in an M400, but from what I've picked up it would be a better match for the Porsche on the normal road, but it would be close. On the Track I'd guess the difference would start to show, but with the £15k saving on buying the Porsche, you could have a nice reliable 600bhp motor with some seriously trick suspension.
If I needed to choose again it would depend on my circumstances. If I had a nice X5 for getting around (sorry Joust) and just wanted a track car then I'd get the Noble. If I wanted something a bit more able to get to work in the snow as well as a track car then I'd get the Porsche.
If you ask me tomorrow .... I'd probably get the Porsche. I don't need my track-day fix any more as I've got a nice MV Agusta F4 1000 tucked away in the garage !
The Noble is special, but the Porsche is just such a piece of performance engineering. Far better than the newer 996 model.
How can you compare these 2 cars.... not very easily. They are both superb machines in dfferent ways. How can you compare "handling" of 2 cars.. almost impossible (chalk/cheese). How can you compare looks/WOW factor... don't even try as it's all in the eyes of the driver/owner.
It's quite strange that you mention these 2 cars. I've had the extreme fortune over the past 15 years or so to have gone through many superb cars from Lotus Esprit V8's, TVR cerbera 4.5 and Chimaera 500, WRC cars like Subaru/Escort Cosworths and even a couple of Jap cars like a Supra and a Skyline. The list goes on and on. Cost me enough money to buy another house if I even dared to add it all up.
With all of these motor's, if you asked me to pick my fave I would ironically tell you I couldn't easily split the 993 turbo or the Noble.. sorry but it's true.
IMHO (flame Suit on) running costs - I'd go for the Porsche. A 993 will get very good service from a specialist (service about £600 every 12 mths/12k miles), the Noble will cost you much more. Handling wise, the Porsche is a mastercraft in engineering over physics. Despite having that engine slung out so far over the back, the amount of grip provided is as good if not better than the Noble thanks to 4WD and a few bits of basic electronics. If you fancy trying to treat the Roads as a race track then the Porsche runs away with it. Treating a Track like a race track then the Noble will give you more fun and possibly better lap times, but only just. Performance wise - the Porsche is in a leage of it's own. Granted, the Noble is quick off the mark, but the pull you get at 180mph in the 993 is astonishing, plus you can easily push the Porsche to 600bhp in nice little 100bhp increments as funds allow.
Reliability wise - Porsche hands down. I didn't have any problems with either car, but my 60k mile Porsche was still very tight and I just can't imaging a Noble putting up with that mileage. Galvanised steel V's fiberglass.. neither will rust but one will last much longer.
one has 4 seats, the other has 2 ...
The comparisons and contrasts go on and on...
I've not been in an M400, but from what I've picked up it would be a better match for the Porsche on the normal road, but it would be close. On the Track I'd guess the difference would start to show, but with the £15k saving on buying the Porsche, you could have a nice reliable 600bhp motor with some seriously trick suspension.
If I needed to choose again it would depend on my circumstances. If I had a nice X5 for getting around (sorry Joust) and just wanted a track car then I'd get the Noble. If I wanted something a bit more able to get to work in the snow as well as a track car then I'd get the Porsche.
If you ask me tomorrow .... I'd probably get the Porsche. I don't need my track-day fix any more as I've got a nice MV Agusta F4 1000 tucked away in the garage !
The Noble is special, but the Porsche is just such a piece of performance engineering. Far better than the newer 996 model.
Er, the 993s didn't/don't have PSM...
Justin likes his Noble and so do I.
Frankly, I'd have the M400.
But...there's a bit to be said for nipping down to 'Muscle Beach' and getting the dodgiest looking iron pumper available to inject the least stable compound of automotive steroids into yon porker's rump.
Schneller pip.
Justin likes his Noble and so do I.
Frankly, I'd have the M400.
But...there's a bit to be said for nipping down to 'Muscle Beach' and getting the dodgiest looking iron pumper available to inject the least stable compound of automotive steroids into yon porker's rump.
Schneller pip.
thanks for your views capelink! your definitlet right about the wow factor. if i had to chose which one id rather be seen in it would be very very tough but probably the noble as its much rarer. I am yet to sit in a m400 but i have in the porsche and i was totally underwhelmed with the interior. Far too basic and dull and the driving position wasnt to my liking, it does however have back seats which is a big bonus!
regards
regards
joust said:
gizard said:
The 911 has PSM and 4x4 etc. the noble doesn't. on Wet roads the 911 will be faster than the Noble - unless your Micheal Scuhmacer or similar.
Try telling that to the three 911s of various models that I passed 'with ease' on a pissing down day at Mallory Park.... along with the Bently Continental that eventually pulled over in the lake district in the wet with a cheerful wave "come by" as he just wasn't happy.
I said the porker would be quicker on the road not track - so your just reapeating what I said in different way... as for the Conti GT - it's a bloody tank in comparrison - If I couldn't get passed it in a Noble I would be truley embarrassed That said you must be very good driver....
>> Edited by gizard on Sunday 14th August 09:36
gizard said:Nah, an average one who happens to own a Noble
That said you must be very good driver....
I have the ultimate respect for what Porsche have done with the 911 series, and as Der will tell you, at VMax I am always baddgering for rides in 911 variants as I truely love the sound and the 'cleverness' of it all.
That said, the Noble is just something else with a large dose of soul thrown in, something that just makes you want to get back in and do it all again, and open the garage door for the 10th time when trying to put it away, just having one "last" look.
As I said before on here, if you want the ultimate in reliability, 30 years worth of engineering, and over €1bn of development costs then look at the 911. If you want a hand built supercar that someone mathes and surpases that, but hasn't had all the things you love about a hand built car engineered out of it, then buy a Noble.
J
DanH said:
My advice is to not consider car ownership as something permanent. Resolve to own both these fine cars at some point. Financially it might make more sense to get the porker first then get the m400 once its a bit older and further down the curve.
Dan,
I was about to post the "usual" Noble owners posting of "when I was last a Brands Hatch (i. e. last week) in my 2.5 GTO M12 I just drove round the 996 turbos" (which in fact is what happened) but then I read your confucious like posting. Spot on. Permanence is not car ownership. The M400 will knock spots of the porsche. There is no further debate needed.
To the questioner; take Dan's advice. buy one now and the other later.
Regards
PauL C
My uninformed thoughts...
Assuming your lifestyle dictates you can have one then at a later date buy the other...
Since the 993TT is older and less likely to depreciate a lot, I'd get this first. Then when the M400 has taken the depreciation hit in 3 years, you sell the 993TT for £40k () and buy a used M400 for < £40k!
As for the Ferrari option, well, they will have taken a further depreciation hit still. Also bear in mind the running costs of a Ferrari... likely to be a lot more than a 993TT or M400!
Assuming your lifestyle dictates you can have one then at a later date buy the other...
Since the 993TT is older and less likely to depreciate a lot, I'd get this first. Then when the M400 has taken the depreciation hit in 3 years, you sell the 993TT for £40k (
) and buy a used M400 for < £40k! As for the Ferrari option, well, they will have taken a further depreciation hit still. Also bear in mind the running costs of a Ferrari... likely to be a lot more than a 993TT or M400!
paulcundy said:
My advice is to not consider car ownership as something permanent. Resolve to own both these fine cars at some point. Financially it might make more sense to get the porker first then get the m400 once its a bit older and further down the curve.
Dan,
I was about to post the "usual" Noble owners posting of "when I was last a Brands Hatch (i. e. last week) in my 2.5 GTO M12 I just drove round the 996 turbos" (which in fact is what happened) but then I read your confucious like posting. Spot on. Permanence is not car ownership. The M400 will knock spots of the porsche. There is no further debate needed.
To the questioner; take Dan's advice. buy one now and the other later.
Regards
PauL C
Yeah I've realised its not all about speed, which is why I'm happy going for an RS over a GT2 despite the latter being faster. The RS is a far more engaging car to drive and it will be more fun (imho). Not to mention that the faster the car, the more speed you are carrying if you have a major cockup.
hi, i can have both cars one before the other but the car i want i intend on keeping for quite some time and may indulge into 'slight' modifications and definitley the best care... so money will not be held back when it comes to the car. so if i was to have one i dont think ill have the other so soon and i will hope to evolve on to a better car in 4-5 years... something like a carrera gt or zonda! but thats all dreams atm 
it will all come down to what i feel more comfortable in and the one i feel suits me more. Where i live there are literally hundreds of m3's and a lot of 996 turbos.. you dont even look twice to these cars. A noble will not be like that and i know in a straight line at nothing will catch it upto quite high speeds. the reason why the 993 is in the equation is because its a lot rarer than the newer porsches and what i believe to be the ultimate from the classic 911 shape... the noble however is fast bemcoming one of those cars that i always said 'im going to have thay car' along side a 1985 escort rs turbo s1 and sierra & escort cosworth and m3... all of which ive have/had the pleasure of owning. All this and im only 20! I will always keep my escort that i have now and the next car will be the same.
regards
it will all come down to what i feel more comfortable in and the one i feel suits me more. Where i live there are literally hundreds of m3's and a lot of 996 turbos.. you dont even look twice to these cars. A noble will not be like that and i know in a straight line at nothing will catch it upto quite high speeds. the reason why the 993 is in the equation is because its a lot rarer than the newer porsches and what i believe to be the ultimate from the classic 911 shape... the noble however is fast bemcoming one of those cars that i always said 'im going to have thay car' along side a 1985 escort rs turbo s1 and sierra & escort cosworth and m3... all of which ive have/had the pleasure of owning. All this and im only 20! I will always keep my escort that i have now and the next car will be the same.
regards
fernando_khan said:
All this and im only 20!
regards
Think I must be in the wrong line of business!! Are you best mates with Bill Gates or something?
Must be nice to be thinking of owning a GT or Zonda for real!!!
If your keen to really mod the car and track it a lot etc, then I would definatly get a Noble. AFAIK it would be a lot cheaper to fix and run a modded one than a heavily modded Porker. (Don't quote me on this though)
GN
Excellent post Capelink.
DanH - Wise words indeed. Any petrolhead should endeavour to sample all the flavours of exotics at one time or another. Cars of this type are so much about the intangibles that saying that one is better than the other is a nonsense. I'm currently half way down my list and have Lambo, koennisig, Pagani and hopfully Mclaren to come
DanH - Wise words indeed. Any petrolhead should endeavour to sample all the flavours of exotics at one time or another. Cars of this type are so much about the intangibles that saying that one is better than the other is a nonsense. I'm currently half way down my list and have Lambo, koennisig, Pagani and hopfully Mclaren to come
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