More efficient intercooler?

[3rtt]

I am interested in finding out from Noble owners and suppliers how much increased performance is available from aftermarket intercoolers.

So far I understand that Faulks produce and aftermarket intercooler, and I have read that Jim Noble Motorsport are also producing (or about to produce).

Without offending the advertising policies of this forum site, I would like to see the following from suppliers (Matt, Jim), and also owners comments who have after market intercoolers fitted (Justin).

1. What is the claimed increase in BHP from the supplier for 3R?
2. What is the claimed increase in BHP from the supplier for M400?
3. What other charactaristics (power curve) does the intercooler bring for 3R?
4. What other charactaristics (power curve) does the intercooler bring for M400?
5. What is the claimed decrease in inlet temperature for 3R?
6. What is the claimed decrease in inlet temperature for M400?

For owners who have fitted an aftermarket intercooler, is there a significant improvement in BHP during colder weather? (Below 10c outside temperature) compared to warmer weather.

Thanks for the replies

Cheers,
Ian.

[chillidog]

Speculating on increased BHP is not going to help with obtaining insurance for such a modification.
So let's not speculate.
--
Richard

[Matt_FP]

Ian,

Technical details on our intercooler upgrade and why it was produced can be found here: www.f900.co.uk/fpm12ic.html

I firmly believe the opinions of owners who use our products are worth far more than mine and I'm sure several of the owners on this forum will be happy to provide you with information on how much they feel it has improved their car. I will however point out our IC is the only race proven upgrade (every privateer Noble M12 race car ran the 2005 season with it fitted) and the only upgrade to fully solve the heat soak issue by utilising a thermostaticaly controlled fan to make up for lack of airflow through the IC box at low/medium speeds and avoid heatsoak when idleing for long periods.

If I can furnish you with any further details please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Best Regards
Matt

[chillidog]

Oh and the FP IC is well worth having if you haven't guessed by now
--
Richard

[robp]

3rtt said:

1. What is the claimed increase in BHP from the supplier for 3R? 2. What is the claimed increase in BHP from the supplier for M400? 3. What other charactaristics (power curve) does the intercooler bring for 3R? 4. What other charactaristics (power curve) does the intercooler bring for M400?

Important to understand (for insurance discussions if nothing else) that the FP IC does not increase BHP per se - rather it effectively prevents a reduction in BHP that otherwise would occur with a reduction in inlet charge density (ie when it gets hot!)
I think I'll go and lie down now.

[paulcundy]

Dear Ian,
Somewhere on here you'll also find a posting of the actual data that Matt and I collected during a real time same day same conditions swap out test where we ran the same car, same driver, same roads, same thrashing with Matt's IC and then immdeiately changed to the stock IC.
We had a laptop linked to the manifold inlet air temp sensor, which is what tells the ECU how to behave, so we were comparing the bottom line.
The stock IC just got hotter and hotter. Matts was a cool as the proverbial.

I know others claim to be as good as his but as far as I know Matt is the only guy who's subject his to objective and public scrutiny.

As others have said it does not increase power over a cold started stock engine on a cold day, it stops power being robbed as the stock IC gets hotter and hotter.

As you might have imagined I thoroughly recomend Matts IC.

Regards
Paul C

[gadgeroonie]

why doesn't somebody do a test

you can buy what is called an air charge temp sensor



I actually know the guy that manufactures these - I may be able to get you a deal on a group buy

basically it measures the temp of the air in the inlet manifold so you can see exactly how efficient your intercooler is !!

I may even be able to help put with the testing on my Rolling Road at Vegan Tune if you are serious about it

[obes]

robp said:

it effectively prevents a reduction in BHP that otherwise would occur with a reduction in inlet charge density (ie when it gets hot!)

Exactly The extra efficiency of the intercooler prevents the drop in horsepower that is associated with having too hot an air charge.

IIRC it's a 0.3% drop in charge density for every degree centigrade increase in temp. Not 100% sure what the drop in BHP associated with this is.


Here is the post about Paul & Matt's test
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157426&f=26&h=0&hw=degree

[Mr Noble]

Has vegantune installed the rolling road dyno yet?

[gadgeroonie]

VeganTune are keen on a Dyno but have not bought one just yet

this is mine - totally portable - take it to the track if you like !!

rated at 1200hp at the wheels !!

www.dyno.com.au/mobile_dyno.htm

you can see it in action here

1311 HP at the rear wheels
www.aussieimportsllc.com/tassone-dyno.mpeg
1236 HP atthe rear wheels
www.brianmacy.com/multimedia/1236dynopull_0001.wmv
1023 bhp at the rear wheels
www.aussieimportsllc.com/hphero.wmv
A motorcycle dyno
www.aussieimportsllc.com/hondadyno2.wmv

[matt_fp]

gadgeroonie said:

why doesn't somebody do a test you can buy what is called an air charge temp sensor I actually know the guy that manufactures these - I may be able to get you a deal on a group buy basically it measures the temp of the air in the inlet manifold so you can see exactly how efficient your intercooler is !! I may even be able to help put with the testing on my Rolling Road at Vegan Tune if you are serious about it

We have already done the test! The ECU uses an air temp sensor mounted in the TB - IC silicone intake pipe. This feeds realtime data to the ECU on air temp which the ECU uses as a base to alter timing advance/retard and boost. By plugging into the ECU it is possible to read the actual air temp the ECU is using to base its calculations/adaption on.

Best Regards
Matt

[alex s]

Mike, have you thought to bring your dyno on the noble track day on the 29th, sure people would be interested.

[gadgeroonie]

HI Alex - I'd love to bring it along - where is it based ?

[obes]

Good thinking Alex !
Mike, YHM

[Mr Noble]

Baggsie a test please!! Always wanted to see what she really puts out. Could be terrible for the firm if we all get them dyno'd and find them pushing a lot less than 350+ hp.

G

[gadgeroonie]

Hi Obes - i replyed

basically I will be there !!

My Dyno gives the following information

Boost
Air Fuel ratio
Power at the wheels
est Power at the flywheel
road speed
rpm
est Torque at fly
Torque at wheels
tractive effort
etc etc

the price per car is £35
for this you get 3 power runs, and I will diagnose any faults and make any recommendations if you need them

Hope this helps

[monitor]

[quote]Ian,

Technical details on our intercooler upgrade and why it was produced can be found here: www.f900.co.uk/fpm12ic.html

I firmly believe the opinions of owners who use our products are worth far more than mine and I'm sure several of the owners on this forum will be happy to provide you with information on how much they feel it has improved their car. I will however point out our IC is the only race proven upgrade (every privateer Noble M12 race car ran the 2005 season with it fitted) and the only upgrade to fully solve the heat soak issue by utilising a thermostaticaly controlled fan to make up for lack of airflow through the IC box at low/medium speeds and avoid heatsoak when idleing for long periods.

If I can furnish you with any further details please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Best Regards
Matt[/quote]

Matt,

Would you spec different IC soluntion for M400 or would you judge your current M12 IC with fan sufficient?

[matt_fp]

monitor said:

Matt, Would you spec different IC soluntion for M400 or would you judge your current M12 IC with fan sufficient?

No our IC has been used with excellent results on several M400's, including the Sceptre Racing M400 Race Car. There is no need for a different solution.

Best Regards
Matt

[alex s]

Well done Mike, look forward to it. I had mine on a RR the other week after the exhaust and a few other bits were done, so will be interesting to see how it compares to that!!
Book me in!!
Cheers
Alex

[3rtt]

Thanks for the posts so far.

As Matt has posted, there is nothing better than customers endorsements of feed back, so if there are 3R and M400 customers that have faulks intercooler, I look forward to your comments on what difference the IC makes.

Also given that I'm up north where generally it's 10C colder than southern counties.

Cheers,
Ian.