Money Well Spent?
Discussion
I watch with interest discussions about engine upgrades, increased power, more performance, modifying this-and-that to get more power from their tusty Noble steed. I cannot help but think how much more thrill and pleasure owners would get if they spent half as much on learning to drive their cars to somewhere near the limit they were designed?
I will probably get shot down in flames for this, but I would suggest the first upgrade any owner might like to think about, is to modify (improve)their driving skills to compliment the car. By this I mean take some lessons from people (instructors) who can really get Noble owners up to a really competent level.
I would like to suggest that through this forum, and the Noble Owners Club, that there is a programme of driving tuition both On Track, and Off Track for all Noble owners. At the next Owners Track Day I would suggest there would be a number of instructors available to help owners at all levels, for Novice first time track day drivers, up to those owners who would like to learn how to get that last 10% out of the car.
Also, (similar to Bernard Aubrey) how to get the most out of the car safely on the open road.
I can honestly say how much I enjoyed taking regular intruction from skilled drivers during my first few track days. Their experience was worth every penny.
So, Owen, Jules, anyone, how about it?
Wouldn't it be great if we could set an example or standard of how skilled drivers Noble owners were, through this programme.
Money well spent? I would say so.
Cheers,
Ian.
PS. I would be happy to offer my services FOC to help novice Noble track day drivers at the next Owners Track Day.
I will probably get shot down in flames for this, but I would suggest the first upgrade any owner might like to think about, is to modify (improve)their driving skills to compliment the car. By this I mean take some lessons from people (instructors) who can really get Noble owners up to a really competent level.
I would like to suggest that through this forum, and the Noble Owners Club, that there is a programme of driving tuition both On Track, and Off Track for all Noble owners. At the next Owners Track Day I would suggest there would be a number of instructors available to help owners at all levels, for Novice first time track day drivers, up to those owners who would like to learn how to get that last 10% out of the car.
Also, (similar to Bernard Aubrey) how to get the most out of the car safely on the open road.
I can honestly say how much I enjoyed taking regular intruction from skilled drivers during my first few track days. Their experience was worth every penny.
So, Owen, Jules, anyone, how about it?
Wouldn't it be great if we could set an example or standard of how skilled drivers Noble owners were, through this programme.
Money well spent? I would say so.
Cheers,
Ian.
PS. I would be happy to offer my services FOC to help novice Noble track day drivers at the next Owners Track Day.
www.silverstone-circuit.co.uk/html/ma.php
This is something I have been thinking about for a while. Silverstone offer everything from a 2-3 hour taster of tuition which I have done and was very good indeed, through a full days car control where you have skid pan training and drift lessons in a caterham followed by 4 x full sessions in a single seater car and sessions in an elise with instructor present.
They also offer (what I have been thinking of), a full 5 day racing instruction program covering all aspects of racing and including the full ARDS race liscence course.
Its £2600, but I feel that, that could be money seriously well spent, and when you think of it as the same price nearly as the new exhausts system or engine map work, I think I know where the money would be better spent.
I agree with Ian (3rtt) that it would be great to arrange a full 5 day program for Noble owners. If we could get enough people willing to pay the money and take the time to do it, it would be a great thing to do.
I'm in! Anyone else?
Greg
This is something I have been thinking about for a while. Silverstone offer everything from a 2-3 hour taster of tuition which I have done and was very good indeed, through a full days car control where you have skid pan training and drift lessons in a caterham followed by 4 x full sessions in a single seater car and sessions in an elise with instructor present.
They also offer (what I have been thinking of), a full 5 day racing instruction program covering all aspects of racing and including the full ARDS race liscence course.
Its £2600, but I feel that, that could be money seriously well spent, and when you think of it as the same price nearly as the new exhausts system or engine map work, I think I know where the money would be better spent.
I agree with Ian (3rtt) that it would be great to arrange a full 5 day program for Noble owners. If we could get enough people willing to pay the money and take the time to do it, it would be a great thing to do.
I'm in! Anyone else?
Greg
Its true the noble is not just a fast car its a great performer on track too
Engines float my boat and I will always be somebody who has the need for more power
however when you get passed on the track by something with a bit more grunt - I bet you will be looking for a few more horses
My Elise is great fun on track - but just needs a bit more grunt to get things exciting imo
I'd love to see a 800 hp noble driven on track with somebody who can really drive it
Engines float my boat and I will always be somebody who has the need for more power
however when you get passed on the track by something with a bit more grunt - I bet you will be looking for a few more horses
My Elise is great fun on track - but just needs a bit more grunt to get things exciting imo
I'd love to see a 800 hp noble driven on track with somebody who can really drive it
The thing is, everyone can learn, at all levels.
From novice first time Noble owners to really experienced owner / drivers. Even Justin picked up some valuable tips from Simon Hucknal at the last Rockingham Track day by running one gear higher, using the engine torque, reducing the revs and engine oil temps and producing a quicker lap.
How many times have you seen a good driver pedal a less powerful car to a quicker lap?
Calum Lockie tought me a huge amount many years ago when he was racing formula VW. His advice remains with me to this day. Bernard Aubrey gave me some of the best advice on advanced road driving, and his advice sits on my shoulder to this day. There are many good racing drivers who are happy to help instruct for not huge sums of money on track. There are also some very good advanced driving instructors who can help improve your road driving skills.
I hope we can gat this topic on a roll.
Cheers,
Ian.
>> Edited by 3rtt on Tuesday 23 May 07:50
From novice first time Noble owners to really experienced owner / drivers. Even Justin picked up some valuable tips from Simon Hucknal at the last Rockingham Track day by running one gear higher, using the engine torque, reducing the revs and engine oil temps and producing a quicker lap.
How many times have you seen a good driver pedal a less powerful car to a quicker lap?
Calum Lockie tought me a huge amount many years ago when he was racing formula VW. His advice remains with me to this day. Bernard Aubrey gave me some of the best advice on advanced road driving, and his advice sits on my shoulder to this day. There are many good racing drivers who are happy to help instruct for not huge sums of money on track. There are also some very good advanced driving instructors who can help improve your road driving skills.
I hope we can gat this topic on a roll.
Cheers,
Ian.
>> Edited by 3rtt on Tuesday 23 May 07:50
3rtt said:
I watch with interest discussions about engine upgrades, increased power, more performance, modifying this-and-that to get more power from their tusty Noble steed. I cannot help but think how much more thrill and pleasure owners would get if they spent half as much on learning to drive their cars to somewhere near the limit they were designed?
I will probably get shot down in flames for this, but I would suggest the first upgrade any owner might like to think about, is to modify (improve)their driving skills to compliment the car. .
Wise words indeed Ian. I have posted several times that the real "jump ups" in my performance have come from letting other faster drivers drive me in my car around the track. Seeing the thing driven at speeds you imagine to be against the laws of gravity gives you the courage to go beyond your own current limits. The other point is that the Noble is such a brilliant car to learn the limit in because it is so consistent and vice free on that very limit. As an example at the Noble owners day I was proud doing a 59 second lap of the Brands Indy circuit but after some subtle tuition from Graham I was able to improve on that by no less than 5 seconds a lap. It doesn't sound much but 5 seconds travelling at 90 mph is an awfull long way to catch up.
Regards
PauL C
>> Edited by paulcundy on Monday 22 May 23:57
washy said:
Not sure how busy he is but I thought Calum Lockie was a bl00dy awesome instructor!! I've heard other names mentioned in the past on here too.
Bang on though. Instruction will make the car go faster very cheaply! It'll make you a lot safer on track too.
So come on then, put your hand in your pocket and lets go see the Don!
I've even got some disposable tyres now, just need to find somewhere willing to fit tyres they haven't sold me, but will take care of expensive rims. hmmmm.
I'l have a scout around again !, there's quite a few places that do it.
The day we did at Millbrook a couple of years ago was pretty good - a touch pricey tho.
I spoke to Don Palmer a while ago at Brunters, who was keen on getting the NoC up there for some sessions !
He'll tailor a day for what we want (track technique, limit handling, drifting etc.)
The other option i've been discussing recently is running a novice evening on the friday before the next NoC big meeting/track day on the saturday. Only really possible at Bedford though.
(the next day will NOT be at Donington, but the one after may well be !!)
The day we did at Millbrook a couple of years ago was pretty good - a touch pricey tho.
I spoke to Don Palmer a while ago at Brunters, who was keen on getting the NoC up there for some sessions !
He'll tailor a day for what we want (track technique, limit handling, drifting etc.)
The other option i've been discussing recently is running a novice evening on the friday before the next NoC big meeting/track day on the saturday. Only really possible at Bedford though.
(the next day will NOT be at Donington, but the one after may well be !!)
DanH said:
Not sure how busy he is but I thought Calum Lockie was a bl00dy awesome instructor!! I've heard other names mentioned in the past on here too.
Bang on though. Instruction will make the car go faster very cheaply! It'll make you a lot safer on track too.
So come on then, put your hand in your pocket and lets go see the Don!
I've even got some disposable tyres now, just need to find somewhere willing to fit tyres they haven't sold me, but will take care of expensive rims. hmmmm.
Last we spoke you weren't coming out to play any more?!
washy said:
Not sure how busy he is but I thought Calum Lockie was a bl00dy awesome instructor!! I've heard other names mentioned in the past on here too.
Bang on though. Instruction will make the car go faster very cheaply! It'll make you a lot safer on track too.
So come on then, put your hand in your pocket and lets go see the Don!
I've even got some disposable tyres now, just need to find somewhere willing to fit tyres they haven't sold me, but will take care of expensive rims. hmmmm.
Last we spoke you weren't coming out to play any more?!
I know, I keep changing my mind. Hoping this house thing will be out of the way soon though!
paulcundy said:
As an example at the Noble owners day I was proud doing a 59 second lap of the Brands Indy circuit but after some subtle tuition from Graham I was able to improve on that by no less than 5 seconds a lap. It doesn't sound much but 5 seconds travelling at 90 mph is an awfull long way to catch up.
Blimey, mate - where did you make up 5 secs? That's almost a lifetime on a circuit as small as Brands Indy.
Tips to increase speed:
1.Tuition
2.Tyres (type and pressures)
3.Suspension set-up
4.Gears (ratios)
5.Engine
The 5 are listed in increasing importance and approx. increasing cost -so why is that almost everyone does it in the reverse order!?!
Goes without saying, there's good instructors and some not so good. On a fairly recent outing, the only comment I had from the instructor was to ask if my speedo was accurate...(!)
Martin - say no more :P
www.justgofaster.com/gallery/gallery/nathan/csl/Smugtwat.wmv
Tuition is the best mod you can make and you can transfer it between cars too
www.justgofaster.com/gallery/gallery/nathan/csl/Smugtwat.wmv
Tuition is the best mod you can make and you can transfer it between cars too
m12_nathan said:
Martin - say no more :P
www.justgofaster.com/gallery/gallery/nathan/csl/Smugtwat.wmv
Tuition is the best mod you can make and you can transfer it between cars too
The truth came out about that vid ages ago Nathan...he's your mate and you bunged him £50
Martin.
Some thoughts ...
For car control courses combined with value for money Andy Walsh ( www.carlimits.com )gets my vote. Don seems rather expensive by comparison; AW costs around 180 quid per person for a 4 person day, Don was twice that price when I did his course. Both were good courses, but I've only done 1 day with Don whereas I'd done 3 days with Andy Walsh.
I could not have practised techniques like trail braking on a track day as I'd have spun too often; so you need a closed off area where it can be practised by one driver at a time.
--
Richard
For car control courses combined with value for money Andy Walsh ( www.carlimits.com )gets my vote. Don seems rather expensive by comparison; AW costs around 180 quid per person for a 4 person day, Don was twice that price when I did his course. Both were good courses, but I've only done 1 day with Don whereas I'd done 3 days with Andy Walsh.
I could not have practised techniques like trail braking on a track day as I'd have spun too often; so you need a closed off area where it can be practised by one driver at a time.
--
Richard
I think there are a number of different levels of tuition that could be beneficial for Noble owners.
For Novice to intermediate owners: At an open Track day, to have a small number (3 - 5) of instructors on hand, that would sit for 4 or 5 laps at a time with owners to help get into the right habits of track driving. These instructors could rotate between owners through the day and their costs shared between those owners. This should not get into great additional costs.
For more advanced track instruction: This would probably require a different approach and be more expensive, but less expensive if block booked by Noble Owners. Something like Bruntingthorpe with Don Palmer (or similar closed venue) to provide advanced Noble handling instruction, drifting, trail braking etc.
I also believe that we could block book a day of Advanced Driving Instruction on the road. This would help make a safer Noble driver, and yet still enjoy the performance of the car. Who knows, if it became recognised by an insurance company, they might even offer a reduced premium. (I might be dreaming about the reduced premium bit)
Just some more thoughts anyway.
Cheers,
Ian.
For Novice to intermediate owners: At an open Track day, to have a small number (3 - 5) of instructors on hand, that would sit for 4 or 5 laps at a time with owners to help get into the right habits of track driving. These instructors could rotate between owners through the day and their costs shared between those owners. This should not get into great additional costs.
For more advanced track instruction: This would probably require a different approach and be more expensive, but less expensive if block booked by Noble Owners. Something like Bruntingthorpe with Don Palmer (or similar closed venue) to provide advanced Noble handling instruction, drifting, trail braking etc.
I also believe that we could block book a day of Advanced Driving Instruction on the road. This would help make a safer Noble driver, and yet still enjoy the performance of the car. Who knows, if it became recognised by an insurance company, they might even offer a reduced premium. (I might be dreaming about the reduced premium bit)
Just some more thoughts anyway.
Cheers,
Ian.
chillidog said:
Some thoughts ...
For car control courses combined with value for money Andy Walsh ( www.carlimits.com )gets my vote. Don seems rather expensive by comparison; AW costs around 180 quid per person for a 4 person day, Don was twice that price when I did his course. Both were good courses, but I've only done 1 day with Don whereas I'd done 3 days with Andy Walsh.
I could not have practised techniques like trail braking on a track day as I'd have spun too often; so you need a closed off area where it can be practised by one driver at a time.
--
Richard
I agree. Andrew was an excellent intro to "proper" performance driving and dealt a lot with the theory as well which I appreciated. The ability to go beyond the limit whilst searching for it but not damage anything is critical. I would highly recomend him to anyone at the beginner / intermediate stage.
Would anyone be interested in a day at Dunsfold, the Stig circuit. Plans coud host it and Graham could provide instruction. We did a "drive the stig circuit" day a while back which was spoilt by rain and one of the laid on instructors was naff but this would for a smaller number and more one to one tuition. Anyone interested?
Regards
Paul C
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